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Thread: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..



Permlink Replies: 13 - Last Post: Apr 19, 2018 4:31 PM Last Post By: Rudy Velthuis (... Threads: [ Previous | Next ]
Ian Branch

Posts: 442
Registered: 9/23/99
To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Mar 24, 2018 2:50 PM
To Whom it May Concern,

Speaking for myself here however I suspect there is a general underswell with the same feelings/opinions.

The current trend away from NGs to solely Web Sites for support is in my opinion the wrong move.

At this time I have 9 different support NGs monitored using Xananews. Used to be 12. With one App I can see where
there are new messages & replies to my messages on all 9 NGs in the one view/screen.

If you all went to Web Site only support it would mean firing up the Browser, going to the relevant web site, looking
to see if there is anything new/replied, logging in in some cases to either add or reply, then repeating the process 11
more times.

How do I know if/when my 'entry' has been responded to? Yes, in a couple of cases I get an email advising that I have
received a reply but that is the exception rather than the rule.

In what world is this User Friendly????

I understand there are some security/spamming issues with the NGs. Perhaps it would be better to control/fix that???
No, I don't know how.

I do like that Embarcadero maintains their NG in parallel with their web site.

Guys, please re-think this direction...

Again, these are my thoughts/opinions.

Regards,
Ian
Roy Lambert

Posts: 40
Registered: 10/21/99
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Mar 25, 2018 12:21 AM   in response to: Ian Branch in response to: Ian Branch
Ian

You have my 105% agreement - the extra 5% is because you missed a couple of benefits of LOCAL storage of the newsgroups eg

- the information is still there when the news server is down
- you can access the information away from an internet connection
- you can query it how you want (if you can access the data & write a program)
- generally an NNTP system doesn't have the twiddly bits and its much easier to read. I'm really grateful for the advice from such as Peter Below and Remy Lebeau but I have no desire either to see a photo of them or learn that they think of themselves as a pink dragon!
- probably lower overall bandwidth which has to be a good thing for the internet as a whole

Roy Lambert

Helmuth J.H. Ad...

Posts: 115
Registered: 2/28/01
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Mar 25, 2018 3:18 AM   in response to: Ian Branch in response to: Ian Branch
You are right. With Thunderbird it takes 1 minute to see if there is
something new. With the browser it took me 15 minutes. As I look 2 times
a day it's either 2 minutes or 30 minutes. I am fed up with the browser
interface, I don't use it any more. I can spend my time in a better way.
Regards -
Helmuth J.H. Adolph
Am 24.03.2018 um 22:50 schrieb Ian Branch:
To Whom it May Concern,

Speaking for myself here however I suspect there is a general underswell with the same feelings/opinions.

The current trend away from NGs to solely Web Sites for support is in my opinion the wrong move.

At this time I have 9 different support NGs monitored using Xananews. Used to be 12. With one App I can see where
there are new messages & replies to my messages on all 9 NGs in the one view/screen.

If you all went to Web Site only support it would mean firing up the Browser, going to the relevant web site, looking
to see if there is anything new/replied, logging in in some cases to either add or reply, then repeating the process 11
more times.

How do I know if/when my 'entry' has been responded to? Yes, in a couple of cases I get an email advising that I have
received a reply but that is the exception rather than the rule.

In what world is this User Friendly????

I understand there are some security/spamming issues with the NGs. Perhaps it would be better to control/fix that???
No, I don't know how.

I do like that Embarcadero maintains their NG in parallel with their web site.

Guys, please re-think this direction...

Again, these are my thoughts/opinions.

Regards,
Ian
Uffe Kousgaard

Posts: 218
Registered: 2/7/00
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Mar 27, 2018 8:53 AM   in response to: Ian Branch in response to: Ian Branch
Ian Branch wrote:

The current trend away from NGs to solely Web Sites for support is
in my opinion the wrong move.

It is a lost battle. NGs are simply dying, because the young developers
don't use them and they most likely don't match with a smartphone.
Roy Lambert

Posts: 40
Registered: 10/21/99
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Mar 28, 2018 12:12 AM   in response to: Uffe Kousgaard in response to: Uffe Kousgaard
Uffe


The current trend away from NGs to solely Web Sites for support is
in my opinion the wrong move.

It is a lost battle. NGs are simply dying, because the young developers
don't use them and they most likely don't match with a smartphone.
I'm dubious about the first part of your statement and simply do not understand the relevance of the second part since it seems to imply that development is carried out on a smartphone.

Roy
Uffe Kousgaard

Posts: 218
Registered: 2/7/00
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Mar 31, 2018 3:45 AM   in response to: Roy Lambert in response to: Roy Lambert
Roy Lambert wrote:

I'm dubious about the first part of your statement and simply do not
understand the relevance of the second part since it seems to imply
that development is carried out on a smartphone.

Let me explain:
Those who want to host a forum of some sort finds it easier to target
all users through a webforum, since it doesn't require any specific
software and it can even be read from a smartphone.
Reading from a smartphone of course doesn't mean you develop on a
smartphone...
Roy Lambert

Posts: 40
Registered: 10/21/99
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Apr 1, 2018 6:35 AM   in response to: Uffe Kousgaard in response to: Uffe Kousgaard
Uffe

Let me explain:
Those who want to host a forum of some sort finds it easier to target
all users through a webforum, since it doesn't require any specific
software and it can even be read from a smartphone.
Reading from a smartphone of course doesn't mean you develop on a
smartphone...

But (shouting intentional) IT DOES REQUIRE INTERNET ACCESS AT THE TIME YOU WANT TO READ IT. Even to see old posts.

I have an alternative explanation which has to do with the orientation of people to "pretty" and "shiny" rather than substance.

Lets try a quick poll.

How many people have used a smartphone to read any software development newsgroup

a) whilst developing on their PC
b) whilst developing on a smartphone
c) whilst away from their PC

Roy Lambert

Matthew Jones

Posts: 337
Registered: 1/25/98
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Apr 2, 2018 3:44 AM   in response to: Roy Lambert in response to: Roy Lambert
Roy Lambert wrote:

How many people have used a smartphone to read any software development newsgroup

a) whilst developing on their PC
b) whilst developing on a smartphone
c) whilst away from their PC

Interesting - I never use my phone while at my PC, where I do my development work. But I do have a newsgroup reader on my iPhone for key newsgroups for when I'm away. Sometimes I check the newsgroups over breakfast to see if anything interesting has happened for me to think about before I get to work.

My news reader on the desktop is a good way for me to browse all the interesting topics around development, and catch up on news and announcements. I usually read while eating lunch.

But key in this conversation is that I rarely visit sites and forums etc that stopped newsgroups unless I have a specific need. They chose to be out of my sight, and that's where they are.

I think that the systems that provide a news feed will be getting much more interactivity (users helping each other) than those that don't - thus ending up as more of a list of people with problems and no solutions.

The key here is the personal feed - how does that get to the web browser to get the new kids on board?
David Novo

Posts: 40
Registered: 8/5/07
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Mar 28, 2018 12:18 PM   in response to: Ian Branch in response to: Ian Branch
Aside from this crappy forum that EMB chose, because they obviously don't care about this forum, most forums have all the features that you discuss.

phpBB, myBB etc etc (all the common forum software) allow you to

- subscribe to topics
- subscribe to the entire forum
- will show you new posts since the last time you visited
- will show you posts that you have not read
- will quickly get you to all your posts
- if you set the auto-login to the forums of interest, you simply go to the site (or click on a link in whatever notification email you got) and you are right there in the forum. Sure, if you want to enter all your credentials every time you can, but that is your personal preference, not a limitation of the forum.

Plus you can enter rich text with hyperlinks, images, nicely formatted code snipped etc. I for one am happy for this move away from this antiquated technology.
Roy Lambert

Posts: 40
Registered: 10/21/99
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Mar 29, 2018 1:26 AM   in response to: David Novo in response to: David Novo
David

Aside from this crappy forum that EMB chose, because they obviously don't care about this forum, most forums have all the features that you discuss.

I think you've made a subtle mistake there. Its not the forum they don't care about its user service and cost.

phpBB, myBB etc etc (all the common forum software) allow you to

- subscribe to topics
- subscribe to the entire forum
- will show you new posts since the last time you visited
- will show you posts that you have not read
- will quickly get you to all your posts
- if you set the auto-login to the forums of interest, you simply go to the site (or click on a link in whatever notification email you got) and you are right there in the forum. Sure, if you want to enter all your credentials every time you can, but that is your personal preference, not a limitation of the forum.

Did you deliberately miss

<<At this time I have 9 different support NGs monitored using Xananews. Used to be 12. With one App I can see where
there are new messages & replies to my messages on all 9 NGs in the one view/screen

If you all went to Web Site only support it would mean firing up the Browser, going to the relevant web site, looking
to see if there is anything new/replied, logging in in some cases to either add or reply, then repeating the process 11
more times..>>

You also forgot one of my key points - with an offline newsreader I don't need internet access just to look something up.

Plus you can enter rich text with hyperlinks, images, nicely formatted code snipped etc. I for one am happy for this move away from this antiquated technology.

Please explain IN DETAIL just how that will help provide advice to programmers as opposed to plain text and attachments.

Roy Lambert
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 3:59 PM   in response to: David Novo in response to: David Novo
David Novo wrote:

Aside from this crappy forum that EMB chose, because they obviously
don't care about this forum, most forums have all the features that
you discuss.

No, they don't. Not at all.

The web part of these forums is pretty ugly and not very convenient,
but the NNTP part is what makes them so good (if you never tried NNTP:
your loss, sorry).

NNTP is far superior over any web-based click-and-wait forum.

And the big problem is that each vendor has a different server and a
different web site, which must be opened. Each has its own kind of
navigation, its own colours, layout, etc. Navigations is seldom as good
as in an NNTP-client, there is hardly any proper threading, there is no
flexible layout, etc.

And you can't just navigate from one message on one server to the next
(unread) message on a different server. Each server must be visited on
its own. There are generally no ways to colour items pertaining to me
or my interests, there are no ways to jump between threads, there are
no ways to quickly delete messages I don't need (or spam), there is no
way to put people in a bozo bin, etc.etc. I'm sure I forgto many of the
other benefits of NNTP over any, no matter how cool, web forum.

And web forums are slow. And there is no way to download the entire
content for offline browsing.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Most of you are familiar with the virtues of a programmer.
There are three, of course: laziness, impatience, and hubris."
-- Larry Wall
Roy Lambert

Posts: 40
Registered: 10/21/99
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 11:44 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy

I am no fan of web based forums but I think you're spoilt by using Xana. I started with OE which is why I wrote my own mail & news client <G>

Roy Lambert

Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Apr 19, 2018 4:31 PM   in response to: Roy Lambert in response to: Roy Lambert
Roy Lambert wrote:

Rudy

I am no fan of web based forums but I think you're spoilt by using
Xana. I started with OE which is why I wrote my own mail & news
client <G>


XanaNews is indeed very good and convenient and flexible. But I also
liked Forté Agent and Microplanet Gravity a lot (Those days, I bought
both).
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even
correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago."
-- Rob Graham
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: To the makers of 3rd Party components/libraries/utilities for Delphi..
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 3:46 PM   in response to: Ian Branch in response to: Ian Branch
Ian Branch wrote:

To Whom it May Concern,

Speaking for myself here however I suspect there is a general
underswell with the same feelings/opinions.

The current trend away from NGs to solely Web Sites for support is
in my opinion the wrong move.

At this time I have 9 different support NGs monitored using
Xananews. Used to be 12. With one App I can see where there are new
messages & replies to my messages on all 9 NGs in the one view/screen.

If you all went to Web Site only support it would mean firing up the
Browser, going to the relevant web site, looking to see if there is
anything new/replied, logging in in some cases to either add or
reply, then repeating the process 11 more times.

Fully agreed. NNTP is so much more usable.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

Harp's Corollary To Estridge's Law: Your "IBM PC-compatible"
computer grows more incompatible with every passing moment.
Legend
Helpful Answer (5 pts)
Correct Answer (10 pts)

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