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Thread: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?



Permlink Replies: 2,080 - Last Post: Apr 17, 2016 11:20 PM Last Post By: Rudy Velthuis (... Threads: [ Previous | Next ]
Dominique Willems

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Registered: 10/26/99
Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 23, 2016 2:49 PM
Read this "rumor" in a dark corner on the Internets. Apparently, as
soon as Idera took over, half of employees were terminated without
severance, and those who were kept on are used to consult with about
the absorption of the company, to be fired two months later.

It states Idera buys companies, assimilates the source code and build
process, then outsources all further development.

I certainly hope this is a bad joke. Can anyone confirm any of this?
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 23, 2016 3:05 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:

Read this "rumor" in a dark corner on the Internets. Apparently, as
soon as Idera took over, half of employees were terminated without
severance, and those who were kept on are used to consult with about
the absorption of the company, to be fired two months later.

It states Idera buys companies, assimilates the source code and build
process, then outsources all further development.

Source?

I certainly hope this is a bad joke. Can anyone confirm any of this?

Hard to say with nothing to go on.

Rest assured that someone will read an unsubstantiated rumour and
repeat it as fact.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 23, 2016 3:13 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Source?

http://www.nackerhews.com/item?id=11150645

Probably someone who worked in the Russian office and generalized.

However, when I read the Glassdoor comments, one doesn't really get a
glamorous impression. And there is talk of sacking.

Anyhow, the link is an unsubstantiated source, hence the question.
Arnaud BOUCHEZ

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Registered: 2/17/02
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 4:07 AM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems

I like very much this comment:

This is seally rad.

Obfuscation by permutation can be more accurate than its original!
:)
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 4:23 AM   in response to: Arnaud BOUCHEZ in response to: Arnaud BOUCHEZ
Arnaud BOUCHEZ wrote:
This is seally rad.

Silly rad. LOL

If there's one thing I've noticed over the last twenty-one years of
"RAD," it's that a serious application never ever is "R." :)
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 1:59 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique,

| Anyhow, the link is an unsubstantiated source, hence the question.

I cannot even open that link.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-02-24 13:58:45
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 2:57 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:
I cannot even open that link.

So strong are the paralyzing emotions, eh?
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 12:24 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique,

| | I cannot even open that link.
|
| So strong are the paralyzing emotions, eh?

<chuckle> Naw,... IE11 just says it cannot find that link.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-02-25 12:23:29
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 23, 2016 4:11 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Source?

Although the topic is Allen Bauer, on a second reading I see the author
is talking about "a company" Idera took over, so I'm assuming this is
about a previous acquisition.
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 23, 2016 5:07 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Nick Hodges wrote:
Draw what conclusions you will from that.

Allow me some shivers down the spine.

One conclusion is that I'll be surprised if a new team gets up to speed
with five trillion lines of code inside one year. Another is that it'd
be extraordinary for what is left of the existing development team to
be truly motivated to carry on in any inspired fashion.

I hope they have or find one heck of a product development and
technology manager. All staff commentary states the new company has a
very different way of doing R&D and software development.
Gilbert Padilla

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 23, 2016 5:19 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
"Nick Hodges" wrote in message news:808029 at forums dot embarcadero dot com...

Dominique Willems wrote:

I don't know many details.

I do know this: Many of my friends there are no longer there, and many
from all parts of the company have left in the last three months.

Idera is not a technology company. They are a marketing company. They
buy companies and market them. They don't really have a development
staff, and out-source their development.

Draw what conclusions you will from that.

is this good or bad?

Christopher Burke

Posts: 580
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 23, 2016 9:53 PM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Nick Hodges wrote:

Again, draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is that they don't value the IP called Delphi to be
'sold' on in the short term.

That can only mean one of two things:
1. Scrapping it
2. Developing it.

Number 2 seems unlikey as you pointed out, Idera isn't well known for
their "development" prowess.

I'm not feeling cheery about it myself.

I feel an impending:

My.CurrentDeveopmentTool:=nil

Sorry :)
Farshad Mohajeri

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 23, 2016 11:32 PM   in response to: Christopher Burke in response to: Christopher Burke
Christopher Burke wrote:
Nick Hodges wrote:

Again, draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is that they don't value the IP called Delphi to be
'sold' on in the short term.

That can only mean one of two things:
1. Scrapping it
2. Developing it.

Number 2 seems unlikey as you pointed out, Idera isn't well known for
their "development" prowess.

I'm not feeling cheery about it myself.

I feel an impending:

My.CurrentDeveopmentTool:=nil

Sorry :)

They've just announced a new roadmap with lots of Linux related stuff. Now we see that Allen has gone! Difficult to understand.
Christopher Burke

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 12:08 AM   in response to: Farshad Mohajeri in response to: Farshad Mohajeri
Farshad Mohajeri wrote:

They've just announced a new roadmap with lots of Linux related
stuff. Now we see that Allen has gone! Difficult to understand.

There are two 'theys' here.

1. The EMBT staff are probably still doing their damndest to continue
doing their job, including planning releaseing roadmaps and development.
2. The IDERA staff are probably evaluating what to sell/keep/discard
out of their bag of goodies half the staff at a certain company fell
into the discard trolley.

In a sense, the EMBT staff would feel more ugently the need to value
add to the products they are in charge of now than ever, they may well
be trying to save their livelhoods.
David Erbas-White

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 12:21 AM   in response to: Christopher Burke in response to: Christopher Burke
On 2/24/2016 12:08 AM, Christopher Burke wrote:

In a sense, the EMBT staff would feel more ugently the need to value
add to the products they are in charge of now than ever, they may well
be trying to save their livelhoods.

Challenge: name a technology company where the above scenario has
worked. Ever.

I've seen this happen at too many companies (some of which I've worked
at <G> -- at one, I made it to about the 6th layoff, of 7 total before
closing the doors). Not one is in existence today in the same business.
Usually, the end is fairly rapid after this point.

My SA is up for renewal within the next week or two. I've supported the
product for years, and yet still use RS2007 as my primary Delphi/Builder
tool. I may continue support for the pure cussedness of it, or not.
But do I think this is the nail in the coffin? Yes, sadly, I do.

David Erbas-White
Christopher Burke

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 12:25 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

On 2/24/2016 12:08 AM, Christopher Burke wrote:

In a sense, the EMBT staff would feel more ugently the need to value
add to the products they are in charge of now than ever, they may
well be trying to save their livelhoods.

Challenge: name a technology company where the above scenario has
worked. Ever.

Alphabet (aka Google umbrella).

Problem is - Idera isn't really a tech company.

I'll be getting another year of SA for two reasons, one the more people
that sign up the more likelyhood Delphi will survive.

Secondly - may end up getting the last updates for Delphi ever in the
next year :)
Van Swofford

Posts: 397
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 9:11 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

But do I think this is the nail in the coffin? Yes, sadly, I do.

Did you just say Delphi is dead? Oh boy, here we go... :-)

--
Cheers,
Van

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment." - Will Rogers
Phillip Woon

Posts: 189
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 10:25 AM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
Van Swofford wrote:
David Erbas-White wrote:

But do I think this is the nail in the coffin? Yes, sadly, I do.

Did you just say Delphi is dead? Oh boy, here we go... :-)

--
Cheers,
Van

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment." - Will Rogers

Maybe Allen's move to Google is a harbinger of a sale of Delphi to Google? jk.
David Erbas-White

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 10:41 AM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
On 2/24/2016 9:11 AM, Van Swofford wrote:
David Erbas-White wrote:

But do I think this is the nail in the coffin? Yes, sadly, I do.

Did you just say Delphi is dead? Oh boy, here we go... :-)

I would be THRILLED to hear folks explain this as a positive
development. Not kidding...

David Erbas-White
Bruce McGee

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 11:29 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

I would be THRILLED to hear folks explain this as a positive
development. Not kidding...

I don't know whether this could be considered a positive news. The
Delphi community owes Allen a lot and is poorer for not having him
involved.

But I wouldn't be talking about nails in coffins, either. It's
predictable, but a little silly.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Mike Margerum

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 11:31 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
In other news.... Microsoft just bought Xamarin. This is fantastic.
Alexandre Machado

Posts: 1,754
Registered: 8/10/13
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 12:23 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
In other news.... Microsoft just bought Xamarin. This is fantastic.

This means: Xamarin users are probably screwed. Sooner or later they will be forced to move to a new MS Xamarin which has nothing in common with the predecessor unless the name.
Mike Margerum

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked? [Edit]
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 12:50 PM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
On 2/24/16 3:23 PM, Alexandre Machado wrote:
In other news.... Microsoft just bought Xamarin. This is fantastic.

This means: Xamarin users are probably screwed. Sooner or later they will be forced to move to a new MS Xamarin which has nothing in common with the predecessor unless the name.

5 years ago I would have agreed with you, but this is a very different
m$ who wants .net everywhere so they can sell their cloud wares.
Alexandre Machado

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Registered: 8/10/13
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked? [Edit]
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 2:18 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
5 years ago I would have agreed with you, but this is a very different
m$ who wants .net everywhere so they can sell their cloud wares.

The problem is not what they want. The problem is how they do things that they want.

They also want Skype everywhere. And skype for business (Only the name remains, because the product itself was probably rewritten) is a piece of crap. They put their hands on the technology which they have just bought and then decide that they will make it "better". Then you get screwed
Remy Lebeau (Te...


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 12:51 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike wrote:

In other news.... Microsoft just bought Xamarin.

Welcoming the Xamarin team to Microsoft
https://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/welcoming-the-xamarin-team-to-microsoft

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Van Swofford

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 12:40 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

I would be THRILLED to hear folks explain this as a positive
development. Not kidding...

Yeah, me too! I'd even accept a neutral outlook.

--
Cheers,
Van

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment." - Will Rogers
Brandon Staggs

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 6:53 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
"David Erbas-White" wrote on Wed, 24 Feb 2016 10:41:39 -0800:

I would be THRILLED to hear folks explain this as a positive
development. Not kidding...

Reality check: this is almost always what happens when non-startups
are merged with another company. People lose jobs. Almost always.

This happens to successful and unsuccessful mergers alike.

Personally I am concerned about the future of Delphi because of the
loss of Bauer, but this is not the first time (by a long shot) that I
have been worried about the future of Delphi. And what can I do?
Nothing. So I will go back to work.

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
Robert Dawson

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 8:00 AM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
"Brandon Staggs" wrote

[...] but this is not the first time (by a long shot) that I
have been worried about the future of Delphi. And what can I do?
Nothing. So I will go back to work.

Yes, indeed. Moments of absolute agreement on tis forum are rare enough to
merit notice.

And I wish Allen all the best, as, again, I'm sure all of us do.

Now back to work...

bobD
Dalija Prasnikar

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 8:40 AM   in response to: Robert Dawson in response to: Robert Dawson
Robert Dawson wrote:
"Brandon Staggs" wrote

[...] but this is not the first time (by a long shot) that I
have been worried about the future of Delphi. And what can I do?
Nothing. So I will go back to work.

Yes, indeed. Moments of absolute agreement on tis forum are rare enough to
merit notice.

And I wish Allen all the best, as, again, I'm sure all of us do.

Now back to work...

Well said.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Quentin Correll


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 12:26 PM   in response to: Robert Dawson in response to: Robert Dawson
Robert,

+1

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-02-25 12:26:00
Brian Hamilton ...

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 1:20 AM   in response to: Farshad Mohajeri in response to: Farshad Mohajeri

They've just announced a new roadmap with lots of Linux related stuff. Now we see that Allen has gone! Difficult to understand.

yes
something just does not add up here
Alfred Nilsson

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Registered: 3/24/16
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 1:52 AM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
They've just announced a new roadmap with lots of Linux related stuff. Now we see that Allen has gone! Difficult to understand.

yes
something just does not add up here

Couldn't it be, that the roadmap is constructed from more or less already implemented features?
Linux support is a huge one, but was possible scheduled for the spring release, before Idera changed the plans.

I do hope we get some (honest) official comments soon. I for one, is confused/worried about the current situation...
Delphi seemed to have a, possible niched, bright future only a few months ago.

/Alfred
Van Swofford

Posts: 397
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 9:08 AM   in response to: Christopher Burke in response to: Christopher Burke
Christopher Burke wrote:

My.CurrentDeveopmentTool:=nil

Aw, now every time you sit down at your computer to do a little coding,
you have to check for nil. Haven't you learned anything from Nick and
Rudy? :-)

--
Cheers,
Van

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment." - Will Rogers
olivier rinaudo

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 1:46 AM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
thanks for this
another decade of cash cowing is falling upon delphi and not a small one, not sure it'll survive this one
Arnaud BOUCHEZ

Posts: 143
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 4:45 AM   in response to: olivier rinaudo in response to: olivier rinaudo
olivier rinaudo wrote:
another decade of cash cowing is falling upon delphi and not a small one, not sure it'll survive this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUifaPPQ2CA
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE

Who goes moo ?
Martyn Ayers

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Registered: 10/7/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 6:59 AM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Nick,

Idera is not a technology company. They are a marketing company. They
buy companies and market them. They don't really have a development
staff, and out-source their development.

They sound a bit like that company Computer Associates (don't know if they are still around) who bought out s/ware products of a certain age. 15-20 years ago, when CA bought a product, you could reckon that that marked the end of its active development and that it would be left to a death by neglect (or not, in a few cases, iirc).

I imagine that Delphi would be too pricey for a crowd-funded buy-out (and it would be too soon for Idera to let go of it), but maybe a crowd-funded, crowd-resourced of FPC or similar could get off the ground.

Cheers, Martyn
Alexandre Machado

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 12:26 PM   in response to: Martyn Ayers in response to: Martyn Ayers
I imagine that Delphi would be too pricey for a crowd-funded buy-out (and it would be too soon for Idera to let go of it), but maybe a crowd-funded, crowd-resourced of FPC or similar could get off the ground.

I didn't find it conceivable before, but now... who knows...
https://www.cybertribe.de/letsbuydelphi/
Robert Dawson

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 2:06 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
"Nick Hodges"

Idera is not a technology company. They are a marketing company. They
buy companies and market them. They don't really have a development
staff, and out-source their development.

That seems rather uncharacteristically gloomy, Nick--I'll take it seriously.
Yet however it gets done, Idera does kick out new versions of its products,
and secondary-market DB instrumentation is not exactly a slouch field. And
how many times have we all wished that Borland and heirs had been better
marketers?

I'm going to reserve judgment at the moment, and I'm probably in for at
least one more SA renewal. But past that, it is hard to be all smilely
faced. I just used the dearch function on Ideras site: 'Embarcadero' brings
up acquisition announcement material, but search for Delphi got noting
relevant. That's not good.

bobD
Nick Hodges

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 4:45 PM   in response to: Robert Dawson in response to: Robert Dawson
Robert Dawson wrote:

That seems rather uncharacteristically gloomy, Nick--I'll take it
seriously

I don't like to be gloomy, but.....

I am having a chat with Atanas Popov tomorrow afternoon. We'll see how
it goes.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Warren Postma

Posts: 167
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 24, 2016 8:33 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
I am having a chat with Atanas Popov tomorrow afternoon. We'll see how
it goes.

Interesting.
Quentin Correll


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 12:27 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick,

| I am having a chat with Atanas Popov tomorrow afternoon. We'll see
| how it goes.

Please keep us apprised.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-02-25 12:27:32
Gilbert Padilla

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 9:51 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
How it went?
Nick Hodges

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 26, 2016 5:20 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert Padilla wrote:

How it went?

Ineresting.

I'll just say this: He seems very confident that Idera can execute on
the roadmap they've put out.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
david hoke

Posts: 616
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 26, 2016 5:34 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:

Gilbert Padilla wrote:

How it went?

Ineresting.

I'll just say this: He seems very confident that Idera can execute on
the roadmap they've put out.

which could lend support to the notion mentioned elsewhere that a great
deal of that work may have already been done...
Luigi Sandon

Posts: 353
Registered: 10/15/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 2:21 AM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Nick Hodges wrote:
Idera is not a technology company. They are a marketing company. They

How this is different from Embarcadero? In the past years it just tried to find ways to extract more and more money from Delphi customers

buy companies and market them. They don't really have a development
staff, and out-source their development.

Like outsourcing to Alicante and Iasi, for example?

I see little difference, there's also a chance, probably small, it could be outsourced to better developers... <G>
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 4:27 AM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
Luigi Sandon wrote:

In the past years it just tried to find ways to extract more and more
money from Delphi customers

Wow, what an unusual thing for a business to do! Try to make more
money! I've never heard of such a thing! Amazing!

Like outsourcing to Alicante and Iasi, for example?

NO, not like that. That is off-shoring, something different. You need
to catch up on your terminology.

I see little difference, there's also a chance, probably small, it
could be outsourced to better developers... <G>

I suppose that is possible.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 4:34 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:

Luigi Sandon wrote:

In the past years it just tried to find ways to extract more and
more money from Delphi customers

Wow, what an unusual thing for a business to do!

I'm sure the lad meant "extort." And that is maybe not unusual for some
businesses, it is not a customer sentiment that is desirable.

Like outsourcing to Alicante and Iasi, for example?

NO, not like that. That is off-shoring, something different.

Off-shoring (if outside the company) is a subset of outsourcing, so he
is still correct.

You
need to catch up on your terminology.

Somebody certainly does.
Nick Hodges

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Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 4:39 AM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:

I'm sure the lad meant "extort."

How, exactly does a business in the free market "extort" money from
customers. That sounds silly because, well, it is.

Off-shoring (if outside the company) is a subset of outsourcing, so he
is still correct.

YOu don't seem to understand the difference between off-shoring and
outsourcing. YOu might want to look it up.


--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun

Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 4:47 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges

How, exactly does a business in the free market "extort" money from
customers. That sounds silly because, well, it is.


I can give you an example. Idera could decide to stop letting non sa
customers phone home to their registration servers and force everyone to
SA. They can triple the price of SA and we are going to pay it (for a
while) because we have large code bases that are not going to be easy to
rewrite.
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:11 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

I can give you an example.

Extortion: the practice of obtaining something, especially money,
through force or threats.

Offering something you can freely refuse is hardly "extortion".


--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun

Dominique Willems

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:15 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
Offering something you can freely refuse is hardly "extortion".

Did he mention the large code bases? Is your convenience filter on
again?
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:17 AM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:

Did he mention the large code bases? Is your convenience filter on
again?

And you are forced how to upgrade? Is yours on?

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun

Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:22 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
And you are forced how to upgrade?

OSes tend to evolve into new versions, compatibility issues arise, etc.

Is yours on?

This is a family forum, buddy.
Dejan Stanic

Posts: 11
Registered: 5/4/03
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 27, 2016 6:08 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:
Nick Hodges wrote:
And you are forced how to upgrade?

OSes tend to evolve into new versions, compatibility issues arise, etc.

Is yours on?

This is a family forum, buddy.

rofl.
david hoke

Posts: 616
Registered: 2/9/07
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:29 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:

Dominique Willems wrote:

Did he mention the large code bases? Is your convenience filter on
again?

And you are forced how to upgrade? Is yours on?

Oh, its only for upgrades that you have to continue to pay?

Not for fixes that address deficiencies in the product as released?
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 8:17 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Offering something you can freely refuse is hardly "extortion".

So you can freely refuse using Delphi tomorrow if they turned off the
activation server if you didn't want to comply with their new value
proposition?
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 8:20 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

So you can freely refuse using Delphi tomorrow if they turned off the
activation server if you didn't want to comply with their new value
proposition?

Ahh, I see.

That's pure speculation about a very, very, very, very unlikely
prospect.

Don't have any comment on that.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 11:37 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
On 2/25/16 11:20 AM, Nick Hodges wrote:
Mike Margerum wrote:

So you can freely refuse using Delphi tomorrow if they turned off the
activation server if you didn't want to comply with their new value
proposition?

Ahh, I see.

That's pure speculation about a very, very, very, very unlikely
prospect.

Don't have any comment on that.

They are working in a free market and absolutely could do this. Of
course its a hypothetical and i'm sure they wouldn't do it because it
would be suicide. I was just responding to your comment that in a
free market a company cant extort money from their customers. They
absolutely can.
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 6:37 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:


How, exactly does a business in the free market "extort" money from
customers. That sounds silly because, well, it is.


I can give you an example. Idera could decide to stop letting non sa
customers phone home to their registration servers and force everyone
to SA. They can triple the price of SA and we are going to pay it
(for a while) because we have large code bases that are not going to
be easy to rewrite.

You mean preventing existing Delphi installations from working?

That would be a really dumb thing to do.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 6:40 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

That would be a really dumb thing to do.

THat would be a catastrophically dumb thing to do.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 8:39 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
Bruce McGee wrote:

That would be a really dumb thing to do.

THat would be a catastrophically dumb thing to do.

You mean like letting Allen go...

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 10:14 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Nick Hodges wrote:
Bruce McGee wrote:

That would be a really dumb thing to do.

THat would be a catastrophically dumb thing to do.

You mean like letting Allen go...

They didn't, but they also didn't make him want to stay, either.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 12:12 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Nick Hodges wrote:
Bruce McGee wrote:

That would be a really dumb thing to do.

THat would be a catastrophically dumb thing to do.

You mean like letting Allen go...

They didn't, but they also didn't make him want to stay, either.

I know they didn't fired him, but they also didn't make sure that he
has plenty of good reasons for staying.

Point is companies (people running them) make really, really dumb
decisions all the time. You just never know... and I am not talking
just about Embarcadero or Idera here....

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Phillip Woon

Posts: 189
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 12:39 PM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Nick Hodges wrote:
Bruce McGee wrote:

That would be a really dumb thing to do.

THat would be a catastrophically dumb thing to do.

You mean like letting Allen go...

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar

I think after 24 years, it was time to do something different. And of course, Google would seem more interesting.
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 12:55 PM   in response to: Phillip Woon in response to: Phillip Woon
Phillip Woon wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Nick Hodges wrote:
Bruce McGee wrote:

That would be a really dumb thing to do.

THat would be a catastrophically dumb thing to do.

You mean like letting Allen go...

I think after 24 years, it was time to do something different. And of course, Google would seem more interesting.

Possible...

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 8:18 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
You mean preventing existing Delphi installations from working?

That would be a really dumb thing to do.

I was giving Nick and example of how Idera could extort its customers.
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 8:21 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

I was giving Nick and example of how Idera could extort its customers.

I'm not sure that would become "extortion". That seems a bit much.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Bruce McGee

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 10:11 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

You mean preventing existing Delphi installations from working?

That would be a really dumb thing to do.

I was giving Nick and example of how Idera could extort its customers.

An example that would be a really dumb thing to do.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 11:35 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Mike Margerum wrote:

You mean preventing existing Delphi installations from working?

That would be a really dumb thing to do.

I was giving Nick and example of how Idera could extort its
customers.

An example that would be a really dumb thing to do.

Actually, turning off perpetual licenses might be actionable.

You picked a wildly unrealistic example.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 11:50 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Actually, turning off perpetual licenses might be actionable.

You picked a wildly unrealistic example.
it was a hypothetical to prove a point
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 3:06 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
On 2/25/2016 11:35 AM, Bruce McGee wrote:

Actually, turning off perpetual licenses might be actionable.

Yes, but if the company goes away and the activation servers go dark,
who are you going to 'action' against? That's been the problem for
years, ever sense they went to this nonsense of having to grant you
permission to install the software with those servers...

David Erbas-White
Bruce McGee

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  Posted: Feb 26, 2016 8:25 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

On 2/25/2016 11:35 AM, Bruce McGee wrote:

Actually, turning off perpetual licenses might be actionable.

Yes, but if the company goes away and the activation servers go dark,
who are you going to 'action' against? That's been the problem for
years, ever sense they went to this nonsense of having to grant you
permission to install the software with those servers...

The company going away is a completely different straw man argument
than saying the company could deactivate existing licenses as a form of
extortion.

Please keep your FUD straight.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dejan Stanic

Posts: 11
Registered: 5/4/03
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 27, 2016 6:13 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
David Erbas-White wrote:

On 2/25/2016 11:35 AM, Bruce McGee wrote:

Actually, turning off perpetual licenses might be actionable.

Yes, but if the company goes away and the activation servers go dark,
who are you going to 'action' against? That's been the problem for
years, ever sense they went to this nonsense of having to grant you
permission to install the software with those servers...

The company going away is a completely different straw man argument
than saying the company could deactivate existing licenses as a form of
extortion.

Please keep your FUD straight.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software

and yet both scenarios manifest same potential concern for involved developers, don't they?
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
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  Posted: Feb 27, 2016 8:28 PM   in response to: Dejan Stanic in response to: Dejan Stanic
Dejan Stanic wrote:

and yet both scenarios manifest same potential concern for involved
developers, don't they?

Nope.

Mostly just fear tactics. Especially the one about deactivating
existing perpetual licenses as a form of extortion.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dalija Prasnikar

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 4:47 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
Dominique Willems wrote:

I'm sure the lad meant "extort."

How, exactly does a business in the free market "extort" money from
customers. That sounds silly because, well, it is.

Nothing is ever free...

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Nick Hodges

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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:14 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Nothing is ever free...

You are certainly free to never purchase Delphi again.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:08 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
How, exactly does a business in the free market "extort" money from
customers.

I think extortion, in this case, is more of a customer sentiment than a
legal free market term. We all know that the free market is a perfect
ideology that benefits absolutely everybody. It's just that it has this
annoying weak link, called humans.

Off-shoring (if outside the company) is a subset of outsourcing, so
he is still correct.

YOu don't seem to understand the difference between off-shoring and
outsourcing. YOu might want to look it up.

OK, I just did:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshoring

<quote>
More recently, offshoring has been associated primarily with the
outsourcing of technical and administrative services supporting
domestic and global operations from outside the home country ("offshore
outsourcing")
</quote>

http://www.cio.com/article/2439495/outsourcing/outsourcing-definition-and-solutions.html
<quote>
Offshoring (or, more accurately, offshore outsourcing) is, in fact, a
small but important subset of outsourcing
</quote>

Wow, I seem to have been spot on and you arrogantly wrong. Surpise.
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:15 AM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:


What terms should we use, then, for

"Employees in a different country"

vs.

"Contractors in a different country"


--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun

Nick Hodges

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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:18 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:

"Employees in a different country"

vs.

"Contractors in a different country"

... because I see a huge difference between the two.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Dominique Willems

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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:19 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
What terms should we use, then, for

"Employees in a different country"

Offshoring.

vs.

"Contractors in a different country"

Offshore outsourcing.
Van Swofford

Posts: 397
Registered: 6/28/03
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 8:38 AM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:

Nick Hodges wrote:
What terms should we use, then, for

"Employees in a different country"

Offshoring.

Unless they are in Mexico or Canada, and then it would be Next-Dooring.
:-)

--
Cheers,
Van

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment." - Will Rogers
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 8:46 AM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
Van Swofford wrote:
Unless they are in Mexico or Canada, and then it would be
Next-Dooring. :-)

Until Trump's moat is ready in March '17.
David Clegg

Posts: 90
Registered: 2/11/01
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 12:43 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:

Until Trump's moat is ready in March '17.

Baseball Stats guru says America doesn't have enough 'morons' for Trump
to be elected

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/america-doesnt-have-enough-morons-to-elect-trump-baseball-stats-guru-says-2016-02-25

Then again, can you trust a statistician that based his work around a
game that doesn't have wickets, overs, 4s and 6s? :-)

--
Cheers,
David Clegg
https://www.twitter.com/delphijunkie

"Asleep at the switch? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk." - Homer Simpson
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 2:35 PM   in response to: David Clegg in response to: David Clegg
David,

| Baseball Stats guru says America doesn't have enough 'morons' for
| Trump to be elected

I think that "guru" doesn't know what he's talking about. And
supporting Donald Trump does NOT equate one to being a moron!

I'd love to see Trump as President of the USA!!!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-02-25 14:32:14
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 3:09 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
On 2/25/2016 2:35 PM, Quentin Correll wrote:
David,

| Baseball Stats guru says America doesn't have enough 'morons' for
| Trump to be elected

I think that "guru" doesn't know what he's talking about. And
supporting Donald Trump does NOT equate one to being a moron!

I'd love to see Trump as President of the USA!!!

First time I've ever seen anything from you that diminished my opinion
of you, Q. Unless, of course, you meant it for the entertainment value...

Every time I hear/see Trump I'm reminded of Stephen King's "The Dead
Zone" (both the book and the movie), with Trump as the movie's Martin
Sheen...

David Erbas-White
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 4:39 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
Every time I hear/see Trump I'm reminded of Stephen King's "The Dead
Zone" (both the book and the movie), with Trump as the movie's Martin
Sheen...

David Erbas-White

Right because Hilary is such a great choice. People are sick of
politicians funded by mega corps and the super rich who keep sticking it
to working people. This is why Bernie and Trump are doing well.
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 4:59 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
On 2/25/2016 4:39 PM, Mike Margerum wrote:
Every time I hear/see Trump I'm reminded of Stephen King's "The Dead
Zone" (both the book and the movie), with Trump as the movie's Martin
Sheen...

David Erbas-White

Right because Hilary is such a great choice. People are sick of
politicians funded by mega corps and the super rich who keep sticking it
to working people. This is why Bernie and Trump are doing well.

You'll not hear me saying anything positive about Hilary. But Trump
actually scares me - basically, because for Californians, he reminds us
too much of what we went through with Schwarzenegger -- arguably the
worst governor California has ever had...

David Erbas-White
Quentin Correll


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 26, 2016 9:37 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David,

| because for Californians, he [Trump] reminds us
| too much of what we went through with Schwarzenegger

Huh?! As a Californian I can see absolutely NO such comparison
whatsoever.

Can you enlighten me as to why you say that?

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-02-26 09:32:59
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
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  Posted: Feb 26, 2016 10:08 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
On 2/26/2016 9:37 AM, Quentin Correll wrote:
David,

| because for Californians, he [Trump] reminds us
| too much of what we went through with Schwarzenegger

Huh?! As a Californian I can see absolutely NO such comparison
whatsoever.

Can you enlighten me as to why you say that?

Sure -- and bear in mind that this is my opinion only <G>.

First of all, I generally agreed with the decision to recall Gray Davis.
I met the man once, privately, in his capacity as Lt. Governor, and
let's just say he was the epitome of a corrupt politician.

So, among the candidates for Governor to replace him, along comes
Arnold. He had been involved in politics most of his adult life, I saw
him as a 'centrist' Republican, he had done good works with politicians
on both sides of the aisle, had married into a Democrat dynasty, and had
also seemed to have done a credible job managing his money and
businesses. Given all that, I figured he would be able to bring some
'real world' experience into the job, and that because of his Hollywood
persona, he would be able to bring folks together and reach reasonable
compromises.

Ultimately, however, his narcissism made it impossible for him to
accomplish his job, and he ended up just as corrupt and incompetent as
anyone we've ever had. We would honestly have been better off with Gray
Davis remaining in office, and as I've said, I don't think highly of
Davis. You simply have to look at how Arnold handled the Nunez affair
to see what I mean about 'corruption'.

I see Donald in a similar light, but in many ways far worse. He
blusters, he blathers, he's intensely narcissistic, he would rather
resort to name-calling than problem solving, and he's a legend in his
own mind.

BTW, for anyone else reading this thread, although I'm conservative and
a Republican, if I had to name the two best presidents of the last 100
years, it would be Reagan (R) and Truman (D) - both for their
accomplishments, their decision-making capabilities, their vision, and
most of all their integrity. In every election I've ever voted in, I've
honestly tried to vote for the best person for the position, regardless
of party -- and that's very often meant I voted for someone NOT of my party.

David Erbas-White
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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  Posted: Feb 26, 2016 1:25 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David,

| I see Donald in a similar light, but in many ways far worse. He
| blusters, he blathers, he's intensely narcissistic, he would rather
| resort to name-calling than problem solving,

Hmmm,... I guess I don't see how you draw those conclusions.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-02-26 13:21:07
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 26, 2016 7:20 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

for Californians, he reminds us
too much of what we went through with Schwarzenegger -- arguably the
worst governor California has ever had...

Actually he is more like Pete Wilson
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 4:44 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David,

| First time I've ever seen anything from you that diminished my
| opinion of you, Q.

I have come to like Trump because he tells-it-like-it-is and says what
he means, with NO BS. Something rare and almost unheard of in today's
political arena!

Why don't you like Trump?

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-02-25 16:41:06
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 5:01 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
On 2/25/2016 4:44 PM, Quentin Correll wrote:
David,

| First time I've ever seen anything from you that diminished my
| opinion of you, Q.

I have come to like Trump because he tells-it-like-it-is and says what
he means, with NO BS. Something rare and almost unheard of in today's
political arena!

Why don't you like Trump?

Full of platitudes, not plans. Nasty, insufferable a-----e (I can say
that because I'm not running for any office <G>). Reminds me of when
Ahhnuld was running for governor of California, and we thought we were
getting one thing when we ended up getting something completely different...

David Erbas-White
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
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  Posted: Feb 25, 2016 9:44 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
Reminds me of when
Ahhnuld was running for governor of California, and we thought we were
getting one thing when we ended up getting something completely
different...

People voted for the Terminator and got the exterminator LOL
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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  Posted: Feb 26, 2016 9:43 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David,

| Full of platitudes, not plans. Nasty, insufferable a-----e

I submit that you have no way of actually knowing that.

While it's obvious that you highly dislike Trump, I don't have a clue
as to why.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-02-26 09:38:35
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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  Posted: Feb 29, 2016 7:06 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

David,

Full of platitudes, not plans. Nasty, insufferable a-----e

I submit that you have no way of actually knowing that.

Of course anyone can know about the plattitudes. You can see him spout
them all the time. And he comes across, in EVERYTHING he does and says,
and has done and said, as an insufferable arsehole.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it.
If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on
it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the
paint wouldn't even have time to dry."
-- Terry Pratchett (Thief of Time)
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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  Posted: Feb 29, 2016 3:20 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| Of course anyone can know about the plattitudes.

But you have no way of knowing if he has plans or not.

I like Trump! I think that he's a refreshing pot-stirrer of our
political mess.

GO Trump!!!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-02-29 15:18:03
Van Swofford

Posts: 397
Registered: 6/28/03
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 29, 2016 7:54 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

But you have no way of knowing if he has plans or not.

That's the part that scares me. Nobody knows if he has any plans,
probably including Trump.

--
Cheers,
Van

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment." - Will Rogers
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
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  Posted: Feb 29, 2016 8:22 PM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
Van Swofford wrote:
Quentin Correll wrote:

But you have no way of knowing if he has plans or not.

That's the part that scares me. Nobody knows if he has any plans,
probably including Trump.

Correct. There are two things I hold higher than even experience and background: Character, and "core values". Trump has neither. I can't even say that I disagree with his core values because, well, I already answered that.

Trump is about Trump. A lot of people who think they are going to depend on him to "get them what they want" are going to be very disappointed.

I thought his bringing up some of the subjects was helpful, they needed to be discussed in the campaign. The idea that he is a "real" candidate is disgusting. It could easily result in an even more disgusting option as President. IMHO, few people could lose to Clinton but the R's appear ready to pick one of the few.

Now that all that is settled, WTF is really going on at EMB?

Dan
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Feb 29, 2016 8:43 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
On 2/29/2016 8:22 PM, Dan Barclay wrote:

Now that all that is settled, WTF is really going on at EMB?

I don't know, but it's going to be the GREATEST!!! It's going to be
HHUUUUUUUGGGGEEEE!!!

<G>

David Erbas-White

Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
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  Posted: Feb 29, 2016 8:44 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

On 2/29/2016 8:22 PM, Dan Barclay wrote:

Now that all that is settled, WTF is really going on at EMB?

I don't know, but it's going to be the GREATEST!!! It's going to be
HHUUUUUUUGGGGEEEE!!!

<G>


LOL. Good response.

Dan
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 5:22 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:

Character, and "core values".

I'd include "Prudence" in that list, but that's really part of
character.

Trump has zero prudence.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 3:57 PM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
Van,

| | But you have no way of knowing if he has plans or not.
|
| That's the part that scares me. Nobody knows if he has any plans,
| probably including Trump.

<giggle>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-03-01 15:57:10

Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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  Posted: Feb 29, 2016 11:28 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

Of course anyone can know about the plattitudes.

But you have no way of knowing if he has plans or not.

Except the ones that he talked about, you mean?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"I was playing poker the other night... with Tarot cards.
I got a full house and 4 people died." -- Steven Wright
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 4:02 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| | But you have no way of knowing if he has plans or not.
|
| Except the ones that he talked about, you mean?

I don't follow Trump closely enough to know whether he has or has not
talked about any of his "plans." <g>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-03-01 15:58:49
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 11:24 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

| But you have no way of knowing if he has plans or not.

Except the ones that he talked about, you mean?

I don't follow Trump closely enough

And yet you would vote for him, although you don't even really know
what the guy has said and done?

Is that the American way?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"You don't elect politicians to commit crimes; you elect
politicians to make your crimes legal." -- Matt Taibbi
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 11:12 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| And yet you would vote for him, although you don't even really know
| what the guy has said and done?

| Is that the American way?

Sure. While I don't know all his specific plans I like the way he
presents himself in the media I do see. NBD. <shrug>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-03-02 11:10:27
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 11:17 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Sure. While I don't know all his specific plans I like the way he
presents himself in the media I do see. NBD. <shrug>

So he could espouse any number of particularly repugnant views, and you
wouldn't care?

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Brandon Staggs

Posts: 683
Registered: 3/3/01
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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 1:31 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
"Nick Hodges" wrote on Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:17:49 -0800:

So he could espouse any number of particularly repugnant views, and you
wouldn't care?

Actually, that does describe a lot of Trump supporters. I listened to
one explain that even though immigration was the "big issue" drawing
him to Trump, he would still support Trump even if he learned that
Trump told the NY Times off-the-record that his positions on
immigration were "negotiable." It makes no sense, but as Trump said,
he could stand in the street and murder someone and wouldn't lose his
support.

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
Nick Hodges

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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 2:47 PM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
Brandon Staggs wrote:

It makes no sense, but as Trump said,
he could stand in the street and murder someone and wouldn't lose his
support.

We get the government we deserve, I guess.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
David Keith

Posts: 196
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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 3:12 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
On 3/2/2016 17:47, Nick Hodges wrote:
Brandon Staggs wrote:

It makes no sense, but as Trump said,
he could stand in the street and murder someone and wouldn't lose his
support.
We get the government we deserve, I guess.
Indeed.
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Mar 3, 2016 5:26 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:

Brandon Staggs wrote:

It makes no sense, but as Trump said,
he could stand in the street and murder someone and wouldn't lose
his support.

We get the government we deserve, I guess.

So you think you deserved Obama? <g>

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

Bo Diddeley's Observation On The Law: Always take a lawyer with
you, and bring another lawyer to watch him.
Nick Hodges

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  Posted: Mar 3, 2016 5:42 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

So you think you deserved Obama? <g>

Sadly, I suppose we do.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
John Kaster


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  Posted: Mar 4, 2016 9:11 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

So you think you deserved Obama? <g>

The Daggatt Dare:
"Name any meaningful metric that got worse under President Obama"

http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-daggatt-dare-prove-your-pessimism.html

--
John Kaster http://johnkaster.wordpress.com
Software solutions
Nick Hodges

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  Posted: Mar 4, 2016 10:26 AM   in response to: John Kaster in response to: John Kaster
John Kaster wrote:

"Name any meaningful metric that got worse under President Obama"

Number of people on disability
Number of eligible workers no longer in the work force.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Mike Margerum

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  Posted: Mar 5, 2016 6:25 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Number of people on disability
Number of eligible workers no longer in the work force.

Those new jobs numbers look awesome! Until you realize they don't count
people who drop out of the labor force.
Nick Hodges

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Mar 5, 2016 7:15 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

Those new jobs numbers look awesome! Until you realize they don't
count people who drop out of the labor force.

Exactly.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
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  Posted: Mar 5, 2016 6:26 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
On 3/4/16 1:26 PM, Nick Hodges wrote:
John Kaster wrote:

"Name any meaningful metric that got worse under President Obama"

Number of people on disability
Number of eligible workers no longer in the work force.

Those new jobs numbers look awesome! Until you realize they don't count
people who drop out of the labor force.
John Kaster


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Registered: 9/22/99
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  Posted: Mar 5, 2016 6:27 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

Until you realize they don't count
people who drop out of the labor force.

Right ... but isn't that always the case?

--
John Kaster http://johnkaster.wordpress.com
Software solutions
Nick Hodges

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  Posted: Mar 6, 2016 4:45 AM   in response to: John Kaster in response to: John Kaster
John Kaster wrote:

Right ... but isn't that always the case?

It is. And that number is at an all time high.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Mason Wheeler

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  Posted: Mar 15, 2016 7:29 AM   in response to: John Kaster in response to: John Kaster
John Kaster wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

So you think you deserved Obama? <g>

The Daggatt Dare:
"Name any meaningful metric that got worse under President Obama"

The national debt: ballooned hugely.

Respect for the country and the Constitution: The "most transparent administration ever" has prosecuted twice as many whistleblowers under the Espionage Act as all other presidencies put together--and Obama bragged about it!

Respect for the country and the Constitution, part 2: The administration gearing up for a new round of Crypto Wars, with the express purpose of letting law enforcement and intelligence agencies look through your private data. We thought this was a settled question back in the 90s, and it was, until the Obama administration.

Labor force participation rate. Already been mentioned on here.

Jobs. You can maybe call it a "recovery" if you only look at unemployment numbers, (and conveniently neglect to factor in labor force participation rate,) but the unfortunate fact is that most of the "recovered" jobs pay significantly less than the jobs that were lost in the Great Recession.

Too Big To Fail banks: they're even bigger and more unstable now.

Obamacare: You can't fix a problem by making it worse. The reason why healthcare costs are so unaffordable is because of the health insurance industry, the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US by a good margin, and he feeds 17 million more people into the system and, again, brags about it? This is a huge step in the wrong direction! We don't need 17 million less uninsured people; we need about 200 million more. Real progress would be to throw out the fraudulent health insurance system that Elizabeth Warren so memorably compared to "an umbrella that melts in the rain" and drive health care costs back down to where people can afford to be healthy out of their own pockets!



I don't like Trump either, but I think it's inevitable that he's going to win. Consider:

Remember Bush Sr.? Remember "read my lips, no new taxes?" And then there were new taxes, and a sucky economy, and people got sick of him and threw him out.

They picked a new guy who was kind of the anti-Bush: (relatively) young, charming, with an informal air about him. Problem is, he turned out to be thoroughly corrupt and oh-by-the-way also a sexual predator, and the country had to sit through years of scandal upon scandal upon scandal. (Everyone remembers Monica Lewinsky; do you remember the rest of them? I do.) The Clinton presidency was worse than the Bush presidency, and after 8 years of Clinton screwing around, people were fed up... so we got sick of him and threw him out.

Of course, it seems utterly bizarre now, but do you remember what Bush Jr.'s campaign platform was, the first time around? "I will restore dignity to the White House." It was sorely needed, and he did a great job of portraying himself as the anti-Clinton, so we elected him. And we all remember how that went: he was utterly incompetent and in way over his head, especially after 9/11, and the Bush Jr. presidency turned out to be worse than the Clinton presidency. After 8 years of him screwing things up, we got sick of it and threw him out.

Well, you can guess what happened next, right? Yup: we elected the guy who managed to portray himself as the Anti-Bush. Hope and Change and all that. Well, things have changed since then, but it's been mostly more of the same changes we were getting through the Bush years: changes for the worse. The Obama administration has been even worse than the Bush Jr. administration, and after 8 years of him screwing things up... it's not hard to guess what's going to happen in the next election.

The next President is inevitably going to be whichever Republican candidate most successfully portrays himself as the Anti-Obama, and so far Trump's doing a heck of a job of that. You can say no, that's not going to happen, but consider this: for a significant percentage of today's voters, that's the only pattern they've ever known. And the ones older than that are... well... older, and statistically speaking older demographics are more likely to vote Republican.

I don't like it, but I'm pretty sure it's going to happen. Just watch and see.
David Robb

Posts: 6
Registered: 9/23/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Mar 20, 2016 8:00 AM   in response to: Mason Wheeler in response to: Mason Wheeler
After serious thinking Mason Wheeler wrote :


The national debt: ballooned hugely.

I don't like it, but I'm pretty sure it's going to happen. Just watch and
see.

Mason -

Referring to your entire post: I like it! I didn't know you had it in
you!

Dave
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Mar 21, 2016 2:29 AM   in response to: Mason Wheeler in response to: Mason Wheeler
Mason Wheeler wrote:

The Clinton presidency was worse
than the Bush presidency, and after 8 years of Clinton screwing
around, people were fed up... so we got sick of him and threw him out.

Actually, he wasn't thrown out, although he was impeached. His second
term simply ran out. The fact that he had a second term also shows that
not everyone thought he was worse.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"When liberty is taken away by force it can be restored by
force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default, it can
never be recovered."
-- Dorothy Thompson
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Mar 22, 2016 1:48 PM   in response to: Mason Wheeler in response to: Mason Wheeler
Mason Wheeler wrote:

The next President is inevitably going to be whichever Republican
candidate most successfully portrays himself as the Anti-Obama

Huh? Do you know more than the rest of the world does? Are the
elections rigged?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Should array indices start at 0 or 1? My compromise of 0.5 was
rejected without, I thought, proper consideration."
-- Stan Kelly-Bootle

Van Swofford

Posts: 397
Registered: 6/28/03
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Mar 23, 2016 8:32 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Mason Wheeler wrote:

The next President is inevitably going to be whichever Republican
candidate most successfully portrays himself as the Anti-Obama

Huh? Do you know more than the rest of the world does? Are the
elections rigged?

Definitely. Especially so in the primaries, though. Each party has a
complex set of rules which gets renegotiated at each convention, and is
slanted in such a way as to favor a particular candidate. Once you get
to the election in the fall, voters don't actually select the
candidate, but rather their state's members of the electoral college,
which then convenes to elect the president. Popular vote only matters
from state to state, and a candidate could get more than 50% of the
popular vote nationwide, but still lose. I think that happened with
the Bush-Gore election. Democracy at its ugliest, but at least people
get the warm fuzzy feeling that they had a say in who got elected.

--
Cheers,
Van

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment." - Will Rogers
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Mar 25, 2016 12:23 PM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
Van Swofford wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Mason Wheeler wrote:

The next President is inevitably going to be whichever Republican
candidate most successfully portrays himself as the Anti-Obama

Huh? Do you know more than the rest of the world does? Are the
elections rigged?

Definitely. Especially so in the primaries, though.

Not quite what I meant. He seems to know who is going to be the next
president. I thought that was decided in general elections of which the
outcome is not known beforehand.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Any code of your own that you haven't looked at for six or more
months might as well have been written by someone else."
-- Eagleson's law

Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 4:47 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick,

| So he could espouse any number of particularly repugnant views, and
| you wouldn't care?

No, of course not. It would depend on the espouses that I was privy to
see.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-03-02 16:46:09
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Mar 31, 2016 8:43 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

And yet you would vote for him, although you don't even really know
what the guy has said and done?

Is that the American way?

Sure. While I don't know all his specific plans I like the way he
presents himself in the media I do see. NBD. <shrug>

You like the way he incites violence at his rallies, how he treats
women, how he treats anyone he doesn't like? He presents himself as a
blue collar guy, which he isn't and never has been. He is not even a
self-made guy.

He is a rat-catcher (that is how the Germans call the pied piper of
Hamelin - Hamelin is in Germany - and how they call such populists with
"easy" answers).

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"I once heard two ladies going on and on about the pains of
childbirth and how men don't seem to know what real pain is. I
asked if either of them ever got themselves caught in a zipper."
-- Emo Philips.
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Mar 31, 2016 4:15 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| You like the way he incites violence at his rallies, how he treats
| women, how he treats anyone he doesn't like? He presents himself as a
| blue collar guy, which he isn't and never has been. He is not even a
| self-made guy.

I've not seen anything remotely resembling the picture you've painted.
(???)

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-03-31 16:14:22
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
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  Posted: Mar 31, 2016 5:53 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

You like the way he incites violence at his rallies, how he treats
women, how he treats anyone he doesn't like? He presents himself
as a blue collar guy, which he isn't and never has been. He is not
even a self-made guy.

I've not seen anything remotely resembling the picture you've painted.
(???)

Mark this day... I agree with Rudy.

I have a conflict with Trump's character, and have for years.
I'd say I disagree with his core values, but I haven't detected any.
His methods are Ready, Fire, Aim. Or maybe it's Fire, Fire, Aim. Or
maybe Fire, Fire, "I did really fire".

I will not vote For him, though in a General Election I might show up
and mark things in a way that Hillary has an opposing vote (there is a
moral difference).

YMMV.

Dan
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Mar 31, 2016 11:25 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

You like the way he incites violence at his rallies, how he treats
women, how he treats anyone he doesn't like? He presents himself
as a blue collar guy, which he isn't and never has been. He is not
even a self-made guy.

I've not seen anything remotely resembling the picture you've painted.
(???)

WTF?

Then you must have had your eyes and ears closed for the last few
months. Heck, even many people in Europe seem to know more about him
than you, his supporter, do.

Trump is a bully who has problems with strong women and with people
criticizing him. He is anti-Mulsim and anti-Mexican. He incites
violence at his rallies. He insults women, he insulted Cruz's wife,
etc. This is something which gets noticed all around the world, and you
didn't see anything remotely like it?

OTOH, I have never seen any viable plan, except his catch-phrases, that
actually explains how he wants to achieve what he boasts about.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let
'em go, because, man, they're gone."
-- Jack Handey
David Keith

Posts: 196
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 1, 2016 9:28 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
On 4/1/2016 02:25, Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

You like the way he incites violence at his rallies, how he treats
women, how he treats anyone he doesn't like? He presents himself
as a blue collar guy, which he isn't and never has been. He is not
even a self-made guy.
I've not seen anything remotely resembling the picture you've painted.
(???)
WTF?

Then you must have had your eyes and ears closed for the last few
months. Heck, even many people in Europe seem to know more about him
than you, his supporter, do.

Trump is a bully who has problems with strong women and with people
criticizing him. He is anti-Mulsim and anti-Mexican. He incites
violence at his rallies. He insults women, he insulted Cruz's wife,
etc. This is something which gets noticed all around the world, and you
didn't see anything remotely like it?

OTOH, I have never seen any viable plan, except his catch-phrases, that
actually explains how he wants to achieve what he boasts about.
Once again, 'mark the day'!
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 2, 2016 9:18 AM   in response to: David Keith in response to: David Keith
Trump is a bully who has problems with strong women and with people

I think his daughter Ivanka might disagree.

Liberal immigration policy combined with the repub gouging of the middle
class created this monster
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Apr 6, 2016 1:21 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

Trump is a bully who has problems with strong women and with people

I think his daughter Ivanka might disagree.

The one he would date if she weren't his daughter? Yeah.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"I spent thirty-three years in the marines, most of my time
being a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street
and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism."
-- General Smedley Butler, Marine
Mike Margerum

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 2, 2016 9:18 AM   in response to: David Keith in response to: David Keith
Trump is a bully who has problems with strong women and with people

I think his daughter Ivanka might disagree.

Liberal immigration policy combined with the repub gouging of the middle
class created this monster

Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
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  Posted: Apr 1, 2016 10:59 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| Then you must have had your eyes and ears closed for the last few
months.

Yeah, I haven't followed or paid attention to political crap for
several years now.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-01 10:58:11
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
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  Posted: Apr 1, 2016 2:59 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

Then you must have had your eyes and ears closed for the last few
months.

Yeah, I haven't followed or paid attention to political crap for
several years now.

In fairness to those who support Trump, they generally are
(legitimately!) fed up, pissed off, and want their government back.

Along comes Trump, who appears initially to be headed in the right
direction.

If you don't have prior knowlege of him, his character, and his
behavior, his "missteps" are assumed to be minor mistakes. After all,
who could get launched as a real candidate if they weren't seriously
qualified.

He generated a groundswell ("I guarantee you that", etc, etc).

I know a lot of people who bought in to him, thinking that he means
what he says. MOST people (95% or better) don't have the time or
energy to dig into the background of candidates. Once they reach a
critical mass the "all these people can't be wrong" effect comes into
play.

That's where we are now, but a lot of people are beginning to ask real
questions. Hopefully it is not too late.

I've watched Trump for years. The idea of him being President is
nearly as scary as another acknowledged Progressive in the White House.
Some NeverTrump people even claim Trump is Progressive.

They miss the reality: Trump is Trump. He does what is best for Trump
at any instant in time even if it's not best for him in the long run
(thinking 10 minutes into the future isn't in his wheelhouse). The
idea that he might do what is best for anyone else isn't even a
consideration.

Trump, and the people who support him, are the "perfect storm". This
couldn't happen at any other time. Mad as hell, emotion, difficult to
see reality even for very smart, well intentioned, people.

Dan
Mike Margerum

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  Posted: Apr 2, 2016 9:22 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
In fairness to those who support Trump, they generally are
(legitimately!) fed up, pissed off, and want their government back.

Trump is just a symptom of a systemic illness.

What people don't want is another Obama or suit like Romney. Hillary is
just a corporatist and social liberal. Bernie will burn the country
down. What does that leave us with?

I'd like a centrist who actually gives a crap about the country and that
will enforce our laws.

The country is splitting apart along red and blue lines. I wouldn't be
at all surprised to see a secessionist movement at some point.
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 2, 2016 7:47 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

In fairness to those who support Trump, they generally are
(legitimately!) fed up, pissed off, and want their government back.

Trump is just a symptom of a systemic illness.

What people don't want is another Obama or suit like Romney. Hillary
is just a corporatist and social liberal. Bernie will burn the
country down. What does that leave us with?

Trump will give them the worst of those... his social liberalism will
come in fits and stops but he has no respect for (or even
understanding) of the Constitution.

I'd like a centrist who actually gives a crap about the country and
that will enforce our laws.

I want someone who will follow the Constitution. An Originalist.
Every contract ever written means what it meant when it was written.
If you wnat to change it, there is a prescription for amendment written
in the contract.

The country is splitting apart along red and blue lines. I wouldn't
be at all surprised to see a secessionist movement at some point.

Funny you should mention that. The "President of Texas" lives within a
few miles of me. The TNM (Texas Nationalist Movement) folks are
serious, though anything resembling actual secession seems very
unlikely. I know some of these guys, they're not kidding around.

The President ran for state Representative a few years ago. He never
showed up personally to meetings or presentations. I always wanted to
ask him why he was running for lowly Representative if he was already
President. <shrug>

Dan
Quentin Correll


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  Posted: Apr 3, 2016 10:48 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan,

Thanks for the discourse!

Unfortunately, from where I sit I don't see anyone "better" in the
current "game" environment. <sigh> People like Bernie Sanders scare
the living-Hell out of me.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-03 10:46:46
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
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  Posted: Apr 3, 2016 3:32 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Dan,

Thanks for the discourse!

Unfortunately, from where I sit I don't see anyone "better" in the
current "game" environment. <sigh> People like Bernie Sanders scare
the living-Hell out of me.

Sanders and Clinton are very scary, slightly more than Trump.

I'm in the Cruz camp (he's very much an outsider) but will vote for
whatever the convention comes up with.

Dan
Christopher Burke

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  Posted: Apr 3, 2016 11:12 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:

Sanders and Clinton are very scary, slightly more than Trump.

That's the sort of thing that deluded ignorant people think.

Sanders is common sense.
Clinton is same old crap
Cruz is religious right

Trump is literally insane.

No-one, not even Trump knows what will happen if Trump becomes
president.

That's objectively far more dangerous and scary than ANY other
politician in living memory.
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
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  Posted: Apr 4, 2016 1:48 PM   in response to: Christopher Burke in response to: Christopher Burke
On 4/4/16 2:12 AM, Christopher Burke wrote:
Dan Barclay wrote:

Sanders and Clinton are very scary, slightly more than Trump.

That's the sort of thing that deluded ignorant people think.

Sanders is common sense.

Yeh if you have an extra couple of trillion dollars laying around. All
of it sounds wonderful and gives me that same warm feeling I had when I
was 5 which is what your mental age has to be if you believe his math is
going to work.

Clinton is same old crap

Agreed

Cruz is religious right

And that means?

Trump is literally insane.

Not insane. Just loves himself a lot.

No-one, not even Trump knows what will happen if Trump becomes
president.

That's objectively far more dangerous and scary than ANY other
politician in living memory.

That's because his super PAC donors haven't told him what he is supposed
to do. Oh that's right, he doesn't have any. He isn't scripted which I
find refreshing.
Christopher Burke

Posts: 580
Registered: 9/25/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 4, 2016 4:17 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

Sanders is common sense.

Yeh if you have an extra couple of trillion dollars laying around.

That's mathemetically incorrect, just his health care plan alone will
save the US $1.6 trillion a year.

Clinton is same old crap
Agreed

Cruz is religious right
And that means?

He has a position, nothing more nothing less.


Trump is literally insane.
Not insane. Just loves himself a lot.

No - insane. I was stating a documented fact.

Trump is the most dangerous -that's a fact, objective real fact.
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 12:19 PM   in response to: Christopher Burke in response to: Christopher Burke
Christopher,

| Trump is the most dangerous -that's a fact, objective real fact.

BS.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-05 12:19:38
Quentin Correll


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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 12:18 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike,

| That's because his super PAC donors haven't told him what he is
| supposed to do. Oh that's right, he doesn't have any. He isn't
| scripted which I find refreshing.

Ditto!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-05 12:19:00
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 12:18 PM   in response to: Christopher Burke in response to: Christopher Burke
Christopher,

| That's objectively far more dangerous and scary than ANY other
| politician in living memory.

And something the desperately USA needs!!!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-05 12:17:30
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 12:44 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin,

| desperately USA

USA desperately

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-05 12:44:45
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 12:16 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan,

| Sanders and Clinton are very scary, slightly more than Trump.
|
| I'm in the Cruz camp (he's very much an outsider) but will vote for
| whatever the convention comes up with.

I think we (the USA) NEED a "Trump"!!!

I'm hoping he goes all the way into the White House!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-05 12:14:18
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 2:26 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Dan,

Sanders and Clinton are very scary, slightly more than Trump.

I'm in the Cruz camp (he's very much an outsider) but will vote for
whatever the convention comes up with.

I think we (the USA) NEED a "Trump"!!!

I'm hoping he goes all the way into the White House!

Yes, we need(ed) a Trump. We do NOT need him as President. We needed
him to shake things up. Done.

I'm glad he's raising hell, but I don't trust him. Nor do I trust
Clinton. I do trust Sanders to do what he says, so trust isn't a
problem... he's just wrong headed.

I've watched him for years. I've got friends who worked for him some
years ago in NJ. You will be extrordinarily disappointed if he is
President.

Dan
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 2:56 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan,

| You will be extrordinarily disappointed if he is President.

I accept that as your opinion. But I would like to see . You might be
surprised. <g>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-05 14:55:39
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 3:06 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Dan,

You will be extrordinarily disappointed if he is President.

I accept that as your opinion. But I would like to see . You might
be surprised. <g>

Unlikely that I'll be the one surprised. Everything he has done and
said during his campaign is in line with his previous behavior.
Everthing, without exception.

In any case it's pretty unlikely he'll be President even if he wins the
party nomination. If another Progressive gets in the White House you
can kiss off any hope that the Supreme Court will enforce the
Constitution as it was originally written.

If you believe The Donald is going to reduce government control over
your life, or the size of government, or even follow any conservative
(lower case c) principles then you haven't been looking at the record
off his behavior.

He generally doesn't know what he is going to do until after he does
it. His actions are always and only in his personal best interest,
which usually doesn't work well for anyone else.

Seriously, you need to look at the guy and use sources other than his
own rantings. A red flag should go off in your head any time you hear
him utter "I guarantee you that.".

Dan
Quentin Correll


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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 4:39 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan,

| He generally doesn't know what he is going to do until after he does
it.

And how do you know that???

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-05 16:39:25
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 6:56 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Dan,

He generally doesn't know what he is going to do until after he
does
it.

And how do you know that???

1. Past behavior.
2. He ends up reversing himself very often... he wouldn't need to do
that if he'd thought things through.

Ready.
Fire.
Aim.

I'm not going to change your mind by anything I say. Just do yourself
a favor and dig a little deeper into the guy. Look at his history on
various positions that are important to you. It's one thing to "grow
up" and have different world views from your 20's. It's quite another
to change positions every two or three years when you're 50+

Again, nothing I say will convince you of anything. That's not a
pushback on my part, I'm the same way. I look at info and make up my
own mind, but sometimes someone points out some things I look into.

By the way, I'm as mad as Trump or any of his supporters about most of
the things he raises hell about.

Dan
Christopher Burke

Posts: 580
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 10:28 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:

It's quite another
to change positions every two or three years when you're 50+

He had FIVE different positions on Abortion within the space of THREE
days.

That's a big issue no matter which side of that debate you are on.

If you want a reliable conservative nutter - Ted Cruz is your man, he
isn't dangerous he is just wrong :)
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
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  Posted: Apr 6, 2016 6:09 AM   in response to: Christopher Burke in response to: Christopher Burke
If you want a reliable conservative nutter - Ted Cruz is your man, he
isn't dangerous he is just wrong :)

I'm not voting for anyone who is going to raise the cap on H1B "Guest"
workers. Ted Cruz is a shill.

I'd vote for Bernie before I vote for another repub suit
Christopher Burke

Posts: 580
Registered: 9/25/99
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 5:51 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

I'd vote for Bernie before I vote for another repub suit

Bernie is the common sense candidate, I'm just saying Ted Cruz will
just be another George Bush Jr. He won't be that effective, but he
won't be that dangerous.

Trump is the only one of the four that is extremely dangerous - end of
world dangerous.
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 6, 2016 9:01 AM   in response to: Christopher Burke in response to: Christopher Burke
Christopher Burke wrote:

Dan Barclay wrote:

It's quite another
to change positions every two or three years when you're 50+

He had FIVE different positions on Abortion within the space of THREE
days.

That's a big issue no matter which side of that debate you are on.

If you want a reliable conservative nutter - Ted Cruz is your man, he
isn't dangerous he is just wrong :)

He is wrong about a few things. Fortunately the things he is wrong
about can't and won't be changed.

You'll never find the perfect candidate. He's the closest at the
moment. All the rest (all as in all) will continue to grow the
already too big government. Most important, Cruz will follow the
Constitution even when he doesn't personally agree with a point.

Dan
Quentin Correll


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 11:14 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan,

| | And how do you know that???
|
| 1. Past behavior.

I've not seen that. Do you have any specific examples?

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-07 11:13:55
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 7:11 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Dan,

| And how do you know that???

1. Past behavior.

I've not seen that. Do you have any specific examples?

There are a lot. Without doing any searches, I can say:

He donated heavily to liberal politicians much of his life. He
rationalizes that "you have to do that, I'm a businessman". Most other
businessmen don't do that, except those who support the liberal
positions. Even if that were true, it is the other side of the
political corruption coin (he's buying access, other politicians are
selling access). As others have said, Trump and Clinton have been
opposite sides of the same coin... one buying and one selling.

Look into how much he was getting paid, personally, by the businesses
he put into bankrupcy WHILE they were in bankrupcy. Lenders and
vendors were losing their asses, employees were losing their jobs...
but look up how much he was being paid, just by those companies (not
including other sources). How did that happen, when there is a judge
supervising the bankruptcy? Hmmm... maybe look at the previous
paragraph.

His personal attacks on "enemies" are legendary, they are not new to
the campaign. He (and his people) "make people pay" when they oppose
him. He's not in the habit of arguing a point based on merit, he
attacks his opponent personally. He always has done that, and it
reduces the number of people willing to argue against him. He doesn't
win on ideas, and he can't. Imagine how he'll use government entities
for this. The Obama IRS and EPA will be tame in comparison.

His behavior, and character, are personally repulsive to me. YMMV. If
you are new to him you may think he's just acting this way now "because
these people deserve it", but this is not new and "deserves it" depends
only on whether they question him. Any real wrongdoing is completely
irrelevant. Just look into any of the specific attacks he's made since
you started watching him. Remember his (legendary) attacks on Megan
Kelly <sp?>? Look into what was said, and how he's attacked her (for
months now). Does it even make sense to you, once you look at the
actual facts? Contrast that to the way Kelly has behaved, taking the
high road at every turn.

Again, I'm not sure why I put up specifics. You need to look into him
yourself, personally. You will not believe me no matter how much I put
up here. Look into it.

Dan
Quentin Correll


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 10:36 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan,

Thanks for the discourse! (I think you posted "specifics" because I
needed some background. TA!)

It appears that I need to do some personal research to become more
up-to-date on the current circumstances-status.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-08 10:33:38
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 4:59 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
On 4/5/2016 2:56 PM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Dan,

| You will be extrordinarily disappointed if he is President.

I accept that as your opinion. But I would like to see . You might be
surprised. <g>

I thought Ahnuld would be good as governor of California. A lifelong
Republican, seemed to be a shrewd businessman, involved in charities,
well known, seemed to be a straight talker (albeit with a heavy Austrian
accent <G>).

Worst governor we've had in my lifetime. Bar none (including both
'episodes' of Governor Moonbeam -- Jerry Brown to those who aren't aware
of his first term).

David Erbas-White
Dan Barclay

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 6:58 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

On 4/5/2016 2:56 PM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Dan,

You will be extrordinarily disappointed if he is President.

I accept that as your opinion. But I would like to see . You
might be surprised. <g>

I thought Ahnuld would be good as governor of California. A lifelong
Republican, seemed to be a shrewd businessman, involved in charities,
well known, seemed to be a straight talker (albeit with a heavy
Austrian accent <G>).

Worst governor we've had in my lifetime. Bar none (including both
'episodes' of Governor Moonbeam -- Jerry Brown to those who aren't
aware of his first term).

Yea. As an outsider I see most of the CA problems being in the
statehouse. Good luck with that. I don't see a way out.

Dan
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 11:17 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David,

| I thought Ahnuld would be good as governor of California.

<chuckle> I didn't.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-07 11:16:58
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 11:33 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
On 4/7/2016 11:17 AM, Quentin Correll wrote:
David,

| I thought Ahnuld would be good as governor of California.

<chuckle> I didn't.

In my defense, I had some personal interactions with the governor being
recalled (Grey Davis) that made me fully agree that he was unfit... <G>

David Erbas-White
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 10:37 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David,

| In my defense, I had some personal interactions with the governor
| being recalled (Grey Davis) that made me fully agree that he was
| unfit... <G>

I can understand that. <g>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-08 10:37:23
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 4, 2016 2:55 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:

The idea of him being President is
nearly as scary as another acknowledged Progressive in the White
House.

It is actually much scarier.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

Glyme's Formula For Success: The secret of success is sincerity.
Once you can fake that, you've got it made.
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 4, 2016 2:53 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

Then you must have had your eyes and ears closed for the last few
months.

Yeah, I haven't followed or paid attention to political crap for
several years now.

You seem to think that Trump is "saying it as it is". But you
apparently don't know what he actually says and does.

In that case, you shouldn't vote at all.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Mother-in-law = A woman who destroys her son-in-law's peace of
mind by giving him a piece of hers." -- Anonymous.
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 12:26 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| You seem to think that Trump is "saying it as it is". But you
| apparently don't know what he actually says and does.

Your statement doesn't make any sense at all to me. It implies that
what he actually says is not what he says. (???)

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-05 12:21:27
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 5, 2016 11:24 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

You seem to think that Trump is "saying it as it is". But you
apparently don't know what he actually says and does.

Your statement doesn't make any sense at all to me. It implies that
what he actually says is not what he says. (???)

Of course he says what he says. But he doesn't "say it as it is". Big
difference.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"If there was anything that depressed him more than his own
cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as
real life."
-- Terry Pratchett (Guards! Guards!)
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 6, 2016 12:48 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

You seem to think that Trump is "saying it as it is". But you
apparently don't know what he actually says and does.

Your statement doesn't make any sense at all to me. It implies that
what he actually says is not what he says. (???)

Of course he says what he says. But he doesn't "say it as it is". Big
difference.

And obviously, you don't even know what he has been saying and doing
all the time, so how can you conclude he "says it as it is"?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular."
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 11:18 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| Of course he says what he says. But he doesn't "say it as it is". Big
| difference.

Example please.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-07 11:18:15
Jim Gallagher

Posts: 17
Registered: 2/28/00
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 12:29 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:


Example please.

He believes that global warming is a "hoax". He wants to deport 11 million people - how is this small government? He wants to deny entry to the US based on religion - no Muslims for an undetermined amount of time. He wants interrogation methods harsher than waterboarding. He wants government surveillance to be increased. He believes that a person's value is measured by the amount of money they earn. And he is completely obsessed with making money. He's vain and shallow - he frequently demeans people based on their weight or looks. He's vindictive and litigious. He's completely uninformed about world affairs, but not aware that he's uninformed.

You (and frankly, Cruz) may agree with much or all of that, but I am flabbergasted that such a large number of people are supporting Trump.

-Jim
Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 556
Registered: 10/14/04
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 1:17 PM   in response to: Jim Gallagher in response to: Jim Gallagher
Trump seems to be loosing out more now
(thankfully if you ask me)

ps ...just wanting to be the last person to post in this ( record breaking?) thread,lol
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 4:13 AM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
Brian Hamilton Hamilton wrote:

Trump seems to be loosing out more now
(thankfully if you ask me)

ps ...just wanting to be the last person to post in this ( record
breaking?) thread,lol

Sorry, won't happen. <eg>

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
-- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 10:56 AM   in response to: Jim Gallagher in response to: Jim Gallagher
Jim,

| He believes that global warming is a "hoax".

Wow! I wasn't aware of his position on global warming. <sigh>

| He wants to deport 11 million people

All ILLEGAL as I understand it. Good for him!!!

| He wants to deny entry to the US based on religion - no Muslims for
an
| undetermined amount of time.

Great!!! I'm with him all-the-way on the Muslim subject!

I've read some Nikolas Sennels and his info on Muslims scares the Hell
out of me.

[
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/09/nicolai-sennels-psychology-why-islam-c
reates-monsters ]

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-08 10:38:17

Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 7:51 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Jim,

He believes that global warming is a "hoax".

Wow! I wasn't aware of his position on global warming. <sigh>

He wants to deport 11 million people

All ILLEGAL as I understand it. Good for him!!!

Do you realize ehat happens if you deport 11 million people? Do you
realize what that would cost? It is simply idiotic.

He wants to deny entry to the US based on religion - no Muslims for
an
undetermined amount of time.

Great!!! I'm with him all-the-way on the Muslim subject!

All Muslims? You really disappoint me now. I thought you were a
reasonable person.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"God favors no group. Only religions do that."
-- Bumper Sticker
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 9:41 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Do you realize ehat happens if you deport 11 million people? Do you
realize what that would cost? It is simply idiotic.

Wouldn't cost anything. Shut off the entitlement spigot and put
employers who hire them in jail or fine them out of business. They will
walk home.

Neither side wants to solve this problem for different reasons.
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 10:41 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike,

On-the-mark!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-10 10:41:29
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 12:05 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

Do you realize ehat happens if you deport 11 million people? Do you
realize what that would cost? It is simply idiotic.

Wouldn't cost anything.

That is what you think. Now think a little harder.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"The more you own, the more it owns you."
-- Henry Rollins
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 12:06 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

Do you realize ehat happens if you deport 11 million people? Do you
realize what that would cost? It is simply idiotic.

Wouldn't cost anything. Shut off the entitlement spigot

Won't help. Illegal immigrants here get absolutely nothing and yet they
don't go.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but can't afford an air
force."
-- William Blum
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:15 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| Won't help. Illegal immigrants here get absolutely nothing and yet
| they don't go.

So how do they survive?

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-11 11:15:14
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 12:10 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
On 4/11/16 2:15 PM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Rudy,

| Won't help. Illegal immigrants here get absolutely nothing and yet
| they don't go.

So how do they survive?

On liberal unicorn poop
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 5:04 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike,

| > | Won't help. Illegal immigrants here get absolutely nothing and yet
| > | they don't go.
 

| | So how do they survive?
| |
 

| On liberal unicorn poop

While that seems a tad humorous I was actually asking Rudy a serious
question. <g>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-11 17:03:10
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:31 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

Won't help. Illegal immigrants here get absolutely nothing and yet
they don't go.

So how do they survive?

By doing illegal jobs. Or, depending on with whom they live, from what
other people can share with them. Or a combination.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"The great error of nearly all studies of war... has been to
consider war as an episode in foreign policies, when it is an
act of interior politics..." -- Simone Weil
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 10:37 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| | So how do they survive?
|
| By doing illegal jobs. Or, depending on with whom they live, from what
| other people can share with them. Or a combination.

Pretty much the same as here. Here, the jobs can be "legal" but the
workers not. Mostly grounds-keeping/gardening, etc., type jobs.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-12 10:34:32
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 5:54 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

| So how do they survive?

By doing illegal jobs. Or, depending on with whom they live, from
what other people can share with them. Or a combination.

Pretty much the same as here. Here, the jobs can be "legal" but the
workers not. Mostly grounds-keeping/gardening, etc., type jobs.

Here, they don't get any entitlements, so there are none to be removed.
So what Mike claims would not work here.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Object-oriented programming is a style of programming designed
to teach students about stacks." -- Edsger Dijkstra
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 10:40 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| Do you realize ehat happens if you deport 11 million people? Do you
| realize what that would cost? It is simply idiotic.

Not nearly as much nor as idiotic as allowing and supporting 11 million
illegals!!!

| > Great!!! I'm with him all-the-way on the Muslim subject!

| All Muslims? You really disappoint me now. I thought you were a
| reasonable person.

Quite some time ago I did a good bit of research on Muslims and Muslim
history before solidifying my personal position. Their history and
proclivities are in general NOT pretty!!! And continue to this day.
<sigh>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-10 10:31:35

Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 11:04 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Quite some time ago I did a good bit of research on Muslims and Muslim
history before solidifying my personal position. Their history and
proclivities are in general NOT pretty!!! And continue to this day.
<sigh>

Maybe you need to take deeper look at that lovely Christian history...

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 3:43 PM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija,

| Maybe you need to take deeper look at that lovely Christian history...

Whatever made you think that I might be Christian? I am well aware of
"that [not so] lovely Christian history." <sigh>

For the record: There is no God or gods.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-10 15:39:55
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 12:11 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Dalija,

Maybe you need to take deeper look at that lovely Christian
history...

Whatever made you think that I might be Christian?

Irrelevant. You live in a society built on Christian values. You don't
think they should ban Christians from entering the US, do you?
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"No one can earn a million dollars honestly."
-- William Jennings Bryan (1860-1925)
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:17 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| | > Maybe you need to take deeper look at that lovely Christian
| | > history...
 

| | Whatever made you think that I might be Christian?
|
 

| Irrelevant. You live in a society built on Christian values. You don't
| think they should ban Christians from entering the US, do you?
 


I'm lost... I don't see any connection between "illegal" and
"Christian." (???)

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-11 11:16:16
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:32 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Irrelevant. You live in a society built on Christian values. You
don't think they should ban Christians from entering the US, do
you?

I'm lost... I don't see any connection between "illegal" and
"Christian." (???)

You say you have big problems with the Muslim faith and want to ban all
Muslims because of that. The Christian faith is just as violent, if not
more, and you don't seem to want them to ban all Christians from
entering the country.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"In order to learn, one must change one's mind."
-- Orson Scott Card
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 10:48 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| You say you have big problems with the Muslim faith and want to ban
| all Muslims because of that. The Christian faith is just as violent,
| if not more, ...

Has been, but I think not currently. But please provide some
references if I'm wrong. As a non-believer I am definitely NOT
up-to-date on such matters.

I was raised as a "Christian," and my maternal grandfather was a
Methodist minister. However, at a relatively early age I decided that
religion was all bull-sh*t! A position I still maintain today.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-12 10:39:51
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 5:54 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

You say you have big problems with the Muslim faith and want to ban
all Muslims because of that. The Christian faith is just as
violent, if not more, ...

Has been, but I think not currently.

Yes, currently too.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
-- Leonardo da Vinci

Quentin Correll


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 3:43 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| The Christian faith is just as
| | > violent, if not more, ...
 

| | Has been, but I think not currently.
|
 

| Yes, currently too.

I haven't heard of anything. Reference(s)?

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-13 15:42:18

Quentin Correll


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:21 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| You don't
| think they should ban Christians from entering the US, do you?

If they are ILLEGAL, yes!

Being Christian or not Christian has absolutely nothing to do with
(il)legality!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-11 11:19:48
Mike Margerum

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 12:12 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
On 4/11/16 2:21 PM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Rudy,

| You don't
| think they should ban Christians from entering the US, do you?

If they are ILLEGAL, yes!

Being Christian or not Christian has absolutely nothing to do with
(il)legality!

He's playing the "christian card". If you are a christian, you are
supposed allow all the world's billions of tired and hungry into your
country. If you don't you are evil and racist.
Quentin Correll


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 5:07 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike,

| He's playing the "christian card". If you are a christian, you are
| supposed allow all the world's billions of tired and hungry into your
| country. If you don't you are evil and racist.

Hmmm,... Then that card is obviously a joker. <sigh>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-11 17:05:26
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:35 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

On 4/11/16 2:21 PM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Rudy,

You don't
think they should ban Christians from entering the US, do you?

If they are ILLEGAL, yes!

Being Christian or not Christian has absolutely nothing to do with
(il)legality!

He's playing the "christian card".

No, I am not, that's bullshit. I am not saying you should allow
everyone in. But banning ALL Muslims and only some Christians is racist.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

May's Law: The quality of correlation is inverely proportional to
the density of control. (The fewer the data points, the smoother
the curves.)
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:33 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

You don't
think they should ban Christians from entering the US, do you?

If they are ILLEGAL, yes!

Being Christian or not Christian has absolutely nothing to do with
(il)legality!

So ALL muslims, but only illegal Christians? Is that what you are
saying?

That is pretty racist, actually.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"If you think your management doesn't know what it's doing or
that your organisation turns out low-quality software crap that
embarrasses you, then leave."
-- Edward Yourdon Rise and Resurrection of the American
Programmer
Quentin Correll


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 10:53 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| So ALL muslims, but only illegal Christians? Is that what you are
| saying?

Hmmm,... sounds like it it, doesn't it? <g>

| That is pretty racist, actually

No, it's just a fact of Muslinism. Nothing to do with race.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-12 10:49:15
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 5:54 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

So ALL muslims, but only illegal Christians? Is that what you are
saying?

Hmmm,... sounds like it it, doesn't it? <g>

That is pretty racist, actually

No, it's just a fact of Muslinism. Nothing to do with race.

You are calling all Muslims criminal and dangerous. That is
stereotyping and discriminatory. That is no better than racism.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"The worst crimes were dared by a few, willed by more and
tolerated by all." -- Tacitus
david hoke

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 6:02 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

You are calling all Muslims criminal and dangerous. That is
stereotyping and discriminatory. That is no better than racism.

What 'crime' are you referring to?

AIUI, According to their doctrine, killing of apostates is not criminal
- I believe it would be criminal not to do so.

And, in countries where the people have the 'ability' to change what is
criminal, it could even be made not criminal there, were it considered
a crime to begin with.

Do Germany or your home country allow the people to change the laws?
Do the underlying constitutions contain anything stating that as part
of the constitutional basis, no one can be put to death?
Or that no one can be put to death for <something/anything>?
And that the constitution itself cannot be modified?
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 11:27 PM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

You are calling all Muslims criminal and dangerous. That is
stereotyping and discriminatory. That is no better than racism.

What 'crime' are you referring to?

AIUI, According to their doctrine, killing of apostates is not
criminal

So what? Did you ever read the Bible and see what atrocities are
advocated there? Does that mean that all Christians are like that?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."
-- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
david hoke

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 14, 2016 6:23 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

So what? Did you ever read the Bible and see what atrocities are
advocated there?

Yes I've read it.

One individual's atrocity is another's acceptable/accepted practice.

For instance, feticide/unbornicide is apparently regularly committed
around the world - yet viewed as entirely acceptable by many.

I would guess you have no issues with them, but perhaps I'm wrong.

What do you think the opinions of those who are treated thus would have
been, if they had been allowed to continue their normal course of
growth until those reaching birth and beyond were capable of expressing
themselves? Even those resulting from rape and/or incest?

Probably some disagreement, but my guess is most would value their life.

Do you value yours?

I know of at least one individual in that situation - Haven't been
around him that much, but I've not heard him express any regrets about
the attempt on his life failing. AFAIK, he's not attempted to take it
himself, and I believe is now in his fifties. And he apparently has
been an armed forces munitions instructor, so he certainly had means to
do so.
Dalija Prasnikar

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  Posted: Apr 14, 2016 6:39 AM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:

For instance, feticide/unbornicide is apparently regularly committed
around the world - yet viewed as entirely acceptable by many.

Unfortunately, kids don't grow on trees. If you deny women a choice
you are denying them their own life.
david hoke

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  Posted: Apr 14, 2016 7:26 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Unfortunately, kids don't grow on trees. If you deny women a choice
you are denying them their own life.

Sounds like a straw-woman... Nine months? A life? Adoption?

And I would guess in a majority of cases, there were choices already
made by both parties involved. (The men certainly don't experience
quite the same consequences as the women involved.)

Do you value your life?
Do you think society would have been better off without you?
Or your children (three, IIRC)? Do they value/enjoy their lives?

Made any decisions, choices, in your life that led to a commitment of
longer than 9 months (even if with less intrusive results)?
And probably with an end result that you wanted - but nevertheless, a
choice, known to produce some result?

Engage in any pleasurable/enjoyable activities that resulted in
injuries, the recovery from which took far longer than the activity
itself? Or know of others who experienced that situation?

Shorter term choices, perhaps more comparable - what people eat - and
the probable relationship of it to their health. The short term
choices may be pleasant, but potentially have long term consequences.
(Those Italians, I think it was, with the 'macho' cholesterol gene must
have some things pretty good. Don't know if there's a downside...)

But that's just one atrocity...

Human trafficking is another. I expect occurring regularly worldwide.
And the ability to -icide is no doubt a boon for that business.

Dominique didn't go there - I wonder if he thinks that less of a
problem than apostaticide?

Is it the same branches of Islam that support both human trafficking
and death of apostates? (Certainly not that Islam alone is responsible
for that - just apparently some of them think it quite appropriate.)

Or are there divisions?
Some support one or the other, but not both?
Dalija Prasnikar

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  Posted: Apr 14, 2016 7:59 AM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Unfortunately, kids don't grow on trees. If you deny women a choice
you are denying them their own life.

Sounds like a straw-woman... Nine months? A life? Adoption?

Yes, a life.

Do I value my own life, yes, but not to the point that I would deny my
mother her choice.

If I have not been born I could not care less.

And I am not in mood to continue this discussion.
david hoke

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  Posted: Apr 14, 2016 8:22 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

david hoke wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Unfortunately, kids don't grow on trees. If you deny women a
choice you are denying them their own life.

Sounds like a straw-woman... Nine months? A life? Adoption?

Yes, a life.

Do I value my own life, yes, but not to the point that I would deny
my mother her choice.

If I have not been born I could not care less.

And I am not in mood to continue this discussion.

WOW!

That's a Rudy-esque snip/reply.

But OK, you started the discussion, you can certainly stop it.
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Apr 14, 2016 7:29 AM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

So what? Did you ever read the Bible and see what atrocities are
advocated there?

Yes I've read it.

One individual's atrocity is another's acceptable/accepted practice.

Oh?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Humanity without religion is like a serial killer without a
chainsaw."
-- Unknown
david hoke

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  Posted: Apr 14, 2016 7:40 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

david hoke wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

So what? Did you ever read the Bible and see what atrocities are
advocated there?

Yes I've read it.

One individual's atrocity is another's acceptable/accepted practice.

Oh?

Yes - just witness your quote on your reply.
Somehow I thought you were in Dom's camp in that regard...

"Humanity without religion is like a serial killer without a
chainsaw."
-- Unknown


It seems you probably are not in favor of apostaticide - but obviously
there are those who are - at least Dom thinks so.
david hoke

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Re: Half of Embarcadero staff sacked?
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  Posted: Apr 14, 2016 7:45 AM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:

Somehow I thought you were in Dom's camp in that regard...

"Humanity without religion is like a serial killer without a
chainsaw."
-- Unknown
-----------

hmm, maybe missed a suffix, there, but I'm not sure the thought is
totally out-of-line.

A serial killer is not a good thing even without a chainsaw.
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Apr 15, 2016 1:33 AM   in response to: david hoke in response to: