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Thread: Intraweb still being developed?


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Permlink Replies: 43 - Last Post: Apr 2, 2018 1:57 PM Last Post By: Marcello Dias
Arthur Hoornweg

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Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Jul 18, 2016 4:54 AM
Hi all,

is Intraweb still under active development? The online documentation isn't showing anything newer than 2009.
Daniel Fields

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?
Correct
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  Posted: Jul 18, 2016 10:58 AM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
Still in use and under development. There were several updates in the past few weeks alone. The documentation has always lagged, but the blog shows current activity.

I use IW as my primary development platform for desktop and mobile web applications. A great deal has changed since 2009!
Dan Barclay

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Jul 18, 2016 4:01 PM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Daniel Fields wrote:
Still in use and under development. There were several updates in the past few weeks alone. The documentation has always lagged, but the blog shows current activity.

I use IW as my primary development platform for desktop and mobile web applications. A great deal has changed since 2009!

Understatement alert!

For the OP, here is a list of updates.
http://atozed.com/IntraWeb/History/XIV/index.EN.aspx

The dates aren't listed on that page, but would probably surprise you. They are releasing updates for both the current and many past versions.

Search this forum for the text "is out" (which is typical for the subject of release announcements). That will give you a lot of the dates. As I mentioned, you will also see update announcements for XII as well as XIV Intraweb in that search.

[edit] Yea, documentation not so much. They do have a pretty comprehensive set of demos but docs haven't kept up.

Dan
Alexandre Machado

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Jul 18, 2016 5:28 PM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
Hi all,

is Intraweb still under active development? The online documentation isn't showing anything newer than 2009.

Yes it is under very active development. Latest IW 14 version brought dozens of new things to IntraWeb. You can check it in version history here: http://atozed.com/IntraWeb/History/XIV/index.EN.aspx

I can name a few, from the top of my head:
- ASPX deployment
- new ISAPI implementation layer (free from WebBroker, also from its limitations and its bugs)
- new controls/components like new built in dialogs, TIWModalWindow, TIWMonitor, TIWFileUploader (ajax based file uploader control), TIWGradButton, TIWAudio, etc.
- Content handlers
- Exception logger and complete stack trace
- Session logging mechanism
- many security improvements (SSL, FormID, ResetApplicationID, etc). Your IW SSL application will probably get an A score from SSLLabs, out of the box
- PRG (Post Redirect Get)
- HTML 5 (IW 14 renders HTML 5, not HTML 4 / quirks mode)
- internal classes/data structures were completely rewritten
- hundreds of other improvements
- much better performance than IW 12

If you compare IW 12 and 14 source code you won't find a single unit without significant change. Actually most IW 12 application can be ported to IW 14 with minimal modification, but that is the only thing they share in common.
Arthur Hoornweg

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Jul 19, 2016 2:55 AM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
Alexandre Machado wrote:


Yes it is under very active development. Latest IW 14 version brought dozens of new things to IntraWeb. You can check it in version history here: http://atozed.com/IntraWeb/History/XIV/index.EN.aspx

The reason for my asking is, I thought you were out of business... You see, a few days ago I happened to notice that my license expired months ago. I didn't get any reminder that it was about to expire. You know, most component vendors are very pro-active in this respect because it's their livelihood.


Is there an updated user manual somewhere, that I can take a peek at the new features? And does IW14 work behind reverse proxies?

Alexandre Machado

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Jul 19, 2016 3:58 AM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
Alexandre Machado wrote:


Yes it is under very active development. Latest IW 14 version brought dozens of new things to IntraWeb. You can check it in version history here: http://atozed.com/IntraWeb/History/XIV/index.EN.aspx

The reason for my asking is, I thought you were out of business... You see, a few days ago I happened to notice that my license expired months ago. I didn't get any reminder that it was about to expire. You know, most component vendors are very pro-active in this respect because it's their livelihood.


You are correct. We don't send "your subscription is about to expire" e-mails to our users. To be honest, I don't know exactly why we don't send it, however I'll ask Chad and let you know the motives...

Is there an updated user manual somewhere, that I can take a peek at the new features?

New features are in general explored in our blog. Most of them have been covered there.

And does IW14 work behind reverse proxies?

Which exact product do you have in mind?
Arthur Hoornweg

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Jul 19, 2016 5:07 AM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
Alexandre Machado wrote:

And does IW14 work behind reverse proxies?
Which exact product do you have in mind?

Which one would you personally recommend for IW14?

Our websites are ISAPI DLL's running on oil well locations. They're only accessible inside a Hamachi VPN, having addresses that look like this: "http://ip-address/logviewer/logviewer.dll"

The proxy server itself is also part of the Hamachi VPN so it can act as a bridge between the websites inside the VPN and the outside world. We'd like to make all these locations accessible under one single proxy web site like:

http://proxy.ourcompany.com/location1
http://proxy.ourcompany.com/location2
http://proxy.ourcompany.com/location3

etc.

Which reverse proxy product would be best to accomplish this using Intraweb?

Joel Zimmer

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Jul 29, 2016 8:16 AM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
Alexandre Machado wrote:

And does IW14 work behind reverse proxies?
Which exact product do you have in mind?

Which one would you personally recommend for IW14?

Our websites are ISAPI DLL's running on oil well locations. They're only accessible inside a Hamachi VPN, having addresses that look like this: "http://ip-address/logviewer/logviewer.dll"

The proxy server itself is also part of the Hamachi VPN so it can act as a bridge between the websites inside the VPN and the outside world. We'd like to make all these locations accessible under one single proxy web site like:

http://proxy.ourcompany.com/location1
http://proxy.ourcompany.com/location2
http://proxy.ourcompany.com/location3

etc.

Which reverse proxy product would be best to accomplish this using Intraweb?


We use barracudas which then forward to a pool of servers on the backend. It works great and very fast.
Chad Hower

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Jul 19, 2016 1:20 PM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
On 7/19/2016 5:55 AM, Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
The reason for my asking is, I thought you were out of business...
You see, a few days ago I happened to notice that my license expired
months ago. I didn't get any reminder that it was about to expire.
You know, most component vendors are very pro-active in this respect
because it's their livelihood.

In terms of jumping to conclusions - that is quite an Evel Knievel stunt.

We don't send out renewal notices because we moved to an accounting
system a while back which creates a disconnect which we've not been able
to sync up yet due to resources being focused on dev.

Spam filters also continue to be a major headache even in key delivery
and interfered with a lot of the renewal notices we used to send out.
Arthur Hoornweg

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Jul 20, 2016 7:20 AM   in response to: Chad Hower in response to: Chad Hower
Chad Hower wrote:


We don't send out renewal notices because we moved to an accounting
system a while back which creates a disconnect which we've not been able
to sync up yet due to resources being focused on dev.

Spam filters also continue to be a major headache even in key delivery
and interfered with a lot of the renewal notices we used to send out.

Hi Chad, I see that the last renewal notice I received was in 2009 and the atozed.com domain is definitely on my e-mail whitelist. That's a very long disconnect... Sometimes a year goes by without me doing any Intraweb-related work, so if you don't send any renewal reminders I simply won't notice that the license has lapsed. It's no problem for me, but you guys are missing out.

Chad Hower

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Jul 21, 2016 8:18 AM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
On 7/20/2016 10:20 AM, Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
Hi Chad, I see that the last renewal notice I received was in 2009
and the atozed.com domain is definitely on my e-mail whitelist.
That's a very long disconnect... Sometimes a year goes by without me
doing any Intraweb-related work, so if you don't send any renewal

If you were the only customer, that might work.. but the spam protection
from many companies is horrible and sending out so many renewal notices
ended up in about 25% never being delivered and in some cases resulted
in a higher spam score for us because some spam systems saw all the
"similar" mails going out so often. So the renewal emails made our spam
score higher....

We hope to better address this in the future, but for now we have a lot
of other priorities.
Rael Bauer

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 20, 2016 10:54 AM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
On 2016/07/19 02:29 AM, Alexandre Machado wrote:
Yes it is under*very* active development. Latest IW 14 version brought dozens of new things to IntraWeb. You can check it in version history here:http://atozed.com/IntraWeb/History/XIV/index.EN.aspx

It would be very nice if IW provided an online demo to view it's
capabilities, and especially it's new features - something like
CgDevTools has. It allows one to observe (new) features without having
to install the product.

-Rael
Arthur Hoornweg

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 20, 2016 11:43 PM   in response to: Rael Bauer in response to: Rael Bauer
Rael Bauer wrote:

It would be very nice if IW provided an online demo to view it's
capabilities, and especially it's new features - something like
CgDevTools has. It allows one to observe (new) features without having
to install the product.

+1

Take a look at the UniGUI website, they do it right. And up-to-date online docs help a lot to make a product better known and to be able to determine if it is the right tool for the job.
Daniel Fields

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 21, 2016 1:37 AM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
Wait a minute. We are conflating multiple issues, and making an improper comparison. I think there is major value in Atozed focusing on the engine, Intraweb, and letting others address the interface elements. TMS Software, CG Dev and IWBootstrap have filled in that space and given us capabilities that we once longed for as IW developers. Without those companies we would not have a competitive tool in the web and mobile era. It would be harder to use IW as a primary development tool without them.

Atozed has been at this for a long time. Their Partial Update feature was doing Ajax-like things a long time ago. I used to use it to perform magic over dialup connections. They have evolved with every advancement in Internet and Web technology. They were the first to let me use my VCL skills on the web. Period. I know from rigorous testing that Intraweb is a rock-solid foundation for web servers. I can put an IW application on port 80, in the real world. That means it can compete against IIS and Apache on the most common webserver technology level. I can decide what level of defenses I want to activate. I can build my own security measures right into the server itself.

UniGUI looks very cool. I spent a great deal of time on the site. They do have an impressive presentation. It would be nice if we had those resources for IW, but it is not a deal breaker for me because I am long past the point of shopping for a solution. I think the direct comparison is improper because you would need IW+CGDev to equal uniGUI. Atozed should have better material to showcase its strengths as a platform. You can easily compare CG Dev to the Sencha Ext JS portion of UniGUI. That is a direct comparison which appears to be evenly matched at the component level. CGDev wins on prices, hands down, $299 versus $890.

I said "appears" to be close because of one simple factor: UniGUI is in BETA. You cannot even start the comparison to IW until it is actually released and that label is removed. UniGUI had the benefit of an existing model, Intraweb, and bypassing user interface controls by using Sencha. When IW started they had to create every single bit of framework and controls. They got to skip an entire decade of massive technology change.

I am certain that the product is still in beta because they are learning what it means to be a webserver. There is more work than just serving pages and client requests. Take a look at the ServerController's properties and events. There is so much capability there that will have to be matched by UniGUI. Those properties barely scrolled back in 2005. At least twice they have re-done the entire architecture, forcing me to start with a fresh project to migrate old applications. The product has gotten better every time. You have missed major advancements in the technology, and will not be able to summarize them in a quick product review.

Right now, Intraweb is powering systems in banking and casinos that I know of personally. Mission critical systems that cannot afford to be down, and must withstand thousands of probes every day. UniGUI cannot possibly be at that level in version 0.99. I am not saying it's impossible, but I would bet they have a long list of items that they are addressing to get to that point. I will keep an eye on their progress, but until they proclaim themselves read-for-the-world I will stick with Intraweb+CGDev+TMS.

This community is very active and ready to assist. If you keep asking specific questions, we can help overcome what is missing in documentation. The demos are updated frequently, and offer current examples on almost everything.
Rael Bauer

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 21, 2016 5:30 AM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
On 2016/07/21 10:37 AM, Daniel Fields wrote:
Wait a minute. We are conflating multiple issues, and making an improper comparison. I think there is major value in Atozed focusing on the engine, Intraweb, and letting others address the interface elements. TMS Software, CG Dev and IWBootstrap have filled in that space and given us capabilities that we once longed for as IW developers. Without those companies we would not have a competitive tool in the web and mobile era. It would be harder to use IW as a primary development tool without them.

It is always interesting to read your posts, and I take your point here.
However, in my understanding, the statement made by Arthur was not
actually comparing Unigui to IW. It was simply saying that their online
demo is a very good demonstration of the product, as is CgDevTools'
demo. And as you say: "Atozed should have better material to showcase
its strengths as a platform."

It is good to know that IW's focus/strength is on the inner/webserver
technology, however UI should play /some/ role in the product and
advertisment their of, and /is/ important to attract new customers.
Having demos with a UI that was created somewhere in 2000 does not cut
it in my opinion nowadays. There may not be resources for it, but I feel
IW should include some basic modern css in the product, and not
/require/ one to purchase add-ons.
Arthur Hoornweg

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 22, 2016 12:28 AM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Daniel Fields wrote:
Wait a minute. We are conflating multiple issues, and making an improper comparison.

Ehm Daniel, I was just referring to the presentation/documentation, not to the technology itself. I use Intraweb because it makes sense in my projects, it's very powerful but most of that potential power is never used by me because I fail to find the relevant information. I'm a books guy, if only someone would write an "Intraweb bible"! Of course I have Bob Swart's e-book but that one is 5 years old. And I've totally given up on the F1 key in Delphi.

The Unigui website does a very good job at showcasing their product with web-based demos, documentation, a blog and a user support forum. The info is in one place and it all looks very much alive. And wouldn't you agree that demos for a web-based framework should also be web-based, if only to show the usability from a user perspective rather than from a developer perspective?

Dan Barclay

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 22, 2016 10:50 AM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
Daniel Fields wrote:
Wait a minute. We are conflating multiple issues, and making an improper comparison.

Ehm Daniel, I was just referring to the presentation/documentation, not to the technology itself. I use Intraweb because it makes sense in my projects, it's very powerful but most of that potential power is never used by me because I fail to find the relevant information. I'm a books guy, if only someone would write an "Intraweb bible"! Of course I have Bob Swart's e-book but that one is 5 years old. And I've totally given up on the F1 key in Delphi.

The Unigui website does a very good job at showcasing their product with web-based demos, documentation, a blog and a user support forum. The info is in one place and it all looks very much alive. And wouldn't you agree that demos for a web-based framework should also be web-based, if only to show the usability from a user perspective rather than from a developer perspective?


Jumping in here, I strongly agree. I'm guessing that Daniel will as well. Intraweb.Documentation:=NearNil

It's very frustrating for a new Intraweb user (been there... kinda still am there).

The thing is, the product fits so great into its space you can't ignore it. It is just far more painful than it should be.

But, I don't know how you get there from here. Having my own product, I can relate.

Dan
Daniel Fields

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 22, 2016 11:29 AM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
I agree about the presentation and content. I forgot how steep the learning curve can be for those new to IW. I really did not want to come off so aggressively. I apologize for that. Sometimes I get testy when my favorite tools get poked. I understand that you were not doing that.

The reason I feel so strongly is that I have been beat up for decades using Turbo Pascal, then Delphi; and you can add Intraweb on there as a target too. I use to hear how they would go out of business, or that it was not a real development platform. I guess fell back into an old routine.
Arthur Hoornweg

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 26, 2016 12:06 AM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Daniel Fields wrote:
I apologize for that. Sometimes I get testy when my favorite tools get poked. I understand that you were not doing that.

Apology acccepted. I, too, have to justify and defend my favorite tools all the time. IMO if a developer needs to choose a tool to get a job done quickly and efficiently, then excellent documentation and an active user forum can make all the difference. Every hour spent figuring out how to get something working is a lost hour.

I'd love it if the IntraWeb documentation would be a user-editable Wiki. That would make it a community effort and all of us could make it grow and blossom.

Sven Heuer

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 26, 2016 12:26 AM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
This discussion comes up so regulary as eastern and christmas. I have given up to dream of a real documentation. How often we heard that this point will be adressed, I did not count anymore. Atozed (where and who ever this is) can or is not willing to see that development and documentation of a framework are two sides of the same medal. Alexandre is doing its best but how many of the new cool features in the version history are really well documentated?

I think Atozed does not have the resources to do this. And this will not change until they are willing to change theirself. Point!

Best regards
Sven

Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
Daniel Fields wrote:
I apologize for that. Sometimes I get testy when my favorite tools get poked. I understand that you were not doing that.

Apology acccepted. I, too, have to justify and defend my favorite tools all the time. IMO if a developer needs to choose a tool to get a job done quickly and efficiently, then excellent documentation and an active user forum can make all the difference. Every hour spent figuring out how to get something working is a lost hour.

I'd love it if the IntraWeb documentation would be a user-editable Wiki. That would make it a community effort and all of us could make it grow and blossom.

Dan Barclay

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 27, 2016 5:46 PM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Daniel Fields wrote:

The reason I feel so strongly is that I have been beat up for decades
using Turbo Pascal, then Delphi; and you can add Intraweb on there as
a target too. I use to hear how they would go out of business, or
that it was not a real development platform. I guess fell back into
an old routine.

If you're getting beat up, remember that some of us were FORTRAN,
before we were BASIC, before we were VB, before we were Delphi!

Dan <lol>
Arthur Hoornweg

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 27, 2016 11:46 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:
Daniel Fields wrote:

If you're getting beat up, remember that some of us were FORTRAN,
before we were BASIC, before we were VB, before we were Delphi!

Don't forget lovely Algol!
Dan Barclay

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  Posted: Jul 28, 2016 9:21 AM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
Dan Barclay wrote:
Daniel Fields wrote:

If you're getting beat up, remember that some of us were FORTRAN,
before we were BASIC, before we were VB, before we were Delphi!

Don't forget lovely Algol!

I never got into that one.

I worked with some folks on AI apps using LISP though. We had some "head in the clouds" (or maybe it was someplace else <g>) profs trying to help us apply expert systems technologies to real world manufacturing. It was a hoot... but every so often they'd have to "start over in order to speed up delivery". We supported that "stuff" because if they stumbled on a solution we were targeting it would pay off in a huge way.

Dan
David Izada

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 15, 2016 12:54 PM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Daniel,

Sorry to say this, but you shouldn't fall in love with a tool just because you use it every day.
We are developers and a big part of it requires learning and researching every new technology and solution which could increase our performance (which is the reason our employer pays us the big bucks).
IntraWeb was the first tool we got in Delphi for creating web applications, but that doesn't mean it is still the only tool available (and much less that it is the best).
If your investment on it is too big, just keep using it.
But you shouldn't get angry because someone else found your tool lacking features or just becoming obsolete.

Some people in this forum mentioned FORTRAN and VB making references to old products which are now obsolete. I can make even older references... But the fact remains that some people still program in FORTRAN and they are happy. Some of them still consider FORTRAN as the "best" language for what they do. Some of them switched to Mathematica. Both groups could be right and they don't need / want to be reprimanded.

I hope you continue enjoying using IntraWeb.

In my case, what I need is UniGUI.

Don't get angry with me.

Best Regards,

David Izada
Daniel Fields

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  Posted: Aug 15, 2016 2:29 PM   in response to: David Izada in response to: David Izada
Angry? I'm not angry about this conversation. I've been in this business for decades. I've been paid to write code in more languages than I can count. I have worked on mainframes, mini computers, PCs, and now mobile devices. I have abandoned more technology than you will probably learn in your entire career. This conversation is not about me, but about the two of you not knowing what the hell you are talking about. You can go away anytime you like. No one is asking you for your opinion.

I do not understand what you guys are trying to accomplish in this conversation. My choice of Intraweb has nothing to do with love, just reality. The tool has survived more than a decade of rapid change in the Internet and how we use it. It has allowed me to continually meet the needs of my clients and my own products. I have not had to make a single sacrifice to use the technology. My customers receive products that can match any other technologies on the market. With IW and third-party tools I can do what I need to do to make money.

Now, along comes some guy making statements that demonstrate his lack of understanding of those third-party tools, and how they extend IW's capabilities. You are talking about RIAs, which is a term that I have not heard used since 2005. We have all moved well past that simplistic definition. Whatever his and your intentions you come off as saying: "We used to use Intraweb, but it sucks. We use UniGUI and you guys are stupid!". I don't give a flying crap what you use to feed yourself. It has no bearing on my life, and your opinion does not put food on my table. So go take your new toy and be happy that you found something that you like.

As soon as UniGUI is out of beta I will try it. I will judge it by trying to reproduce something already completed in IW. I can then make an objective comparison based upon facts. Not hype because something is new and shiny. If I were you I would be greatly concerned that your new toy was dead for more than two years. Stalled without a single release. Now they are back and ready to go. What happens if they cannot keep the momentum? I seek more stability than that. I wish them and you two good luck.

DO NOT waste my time with childish banter. I cannot believe this post is still active. No one cares about your opinion of IW. At this point you appear to be a couple of UniGUI fanboys attempting to generate buzz for a beta product. This is not the place for marketing of other products. Please find a better use of your time.

Edited by: Daniel Fields on Aug 15, 2016 2:31 PM
Farshad Mohajeri

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 16, 2016 2:24 AM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Daniel Fields wrote:
As soon as UniGUI is out of beta I will try it. I will judge it by trying to reproduce something already completed in IW. I can then make an objective comparison based upon facts. Not hype because something is new and shiny. If I were you I would be greatly concerned that your new toy was dead for more than two years. Stalled without a single release. Now they are back and ready to go. What happens if they cannot keep the momentum? I seek more stability than that. I wish them and you two good luck.

Just here to correct one thing. uniGUI was never stalled for two years. Through project life time we regularly published new updates for at least once per two weeks.

PS: I find this discussion of uniGUI vs IW totally unnecessary. It is not a productive discussion and will not help either of the products, so better leave it at this point.
Daniel Fields

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 16, 2016 9:10 AM   in response to: Farshad Mohajeri in response to: Farshad Mohajeri
It was dead in 2012 and brought back to life in 2014. I hope the discussion end here, but I doubt it. I think this whole think was a failed publicity stunt.

UniGUI Blog Headlines.

06/27/2012 Version 0.89 is Available
10/16/2014 Recent News1 “After a long intermission; almost more than two years here is a new blog about uniGUI.”
01/01/2015 Version 0.98 is Available
06/11/2016 Version 0.99.95 is available

Edited by: Daniel Fields on Aug 16, 2016 9:10 AM
Farshad Mohajeri

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 16, 2016 1:01 PM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Daniel Fields wrote:
It was dead in 2012 and brought back to life in 2014. I hope the discussion end here, but I doubt it. I think this whole think was a failed publicity stunt.

UniGUI Blog Headlines.

06/27/2012 Version 0.89 is Available
10/16/2014 Recent News1 “After a long intermission; almost more than two years here is a new blog about uniGUI.”
01/01/2015 Version 0.98 is Available
06/11/2016 Version 0.99.95 is available

Edited by: Daniel Fields on Aug 16, 2016 9:10 AM

Yes, our blog was not updated, but our forums were fully active and project was updated frequently. Let's say that we were in a semi-closed beta mode in those years.

Correction: There is no "publicity stunt". If you think what happened here is "staged" then let me assure you that you're 100% wrong.

Thanks
Daniel Fields

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 16, 2016 5:45 PM   in response to: Farshad Mohajeri in response to: Farshad Mohajeri
I wish you know ill will , sir. Not enough people are brave enough to attempt something bold and new. As an American I have tremendous respect for anyone that ventures into the business world. I know that it is even more difficult to do the same in other countries. I hope you succeed in the development of your product, and that you prosper handsomely. As I said before I look forward to trying UniGUI in the future. Best wishes to you and your company!
Farshad Mohajeri

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Registered: 12/28/06
Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 17, 2016 1:39 AM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Daniel Fields wrote:
I wish you know ill will , sir. Not enough people are brave enough to attempt something bold and new. As an American I have tremendous respect for anyone that ventures into the business world. I know that it is even more difficult to do the same in other countries. I hope you succeed in the development of your product, and that you prosper handsomely. As I said before I look forward to trying UniGUI in the future. Best wishes to you and your company!

Thank you.

As you told developing a new product is not easy. It gets lots of efforts to create a new product. Not to mention the invested time and money.
Let's hope Delphi 3rd party component market will grow and more and more innovative products will enter that market.

Regards
Dan Barclay

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Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 15, 2016 4:43 PM   in response to: David Izada in response to: David Izada
David Izada wrote:
Daniel,

Sorry to say this, but you shouldn't fall in love with a tool just because you use it every day.

Few of us here get paid based on the tool. We get paid based on results, and that means results over a long haul.

Code monkeys speaking nearly any language can be found all over the place. If you want something using the latest tools your best bet is some young buck graduate. Or offshore.

If you have significant software assets (working solutions) you migrate and work those with the best path you can find. Sometimes that results in integrating different tools, sometimes going for newer tools, sometimes interfacing newer technologies into existing tools. Using well tested Delphi code alongside HTML5 and javascript is not a bad combination. YMMV.

If you are looking for folks who jump from one tool to another, having to convert existing solutions every few years based on market whim, go find that where it might exist. Sometimes they hit home runs, mostly they strike out.

Me, I'll hang out with folks who deliver results over a long haul. I much prefer long lived applications and solutions.

Dan
Dan Barclay

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 15, 2016 4:43 PM   in response to: David Izada in response to: David Izada
David Izada wrote:
Daniel,

Sorry to say this, but you shouldn't fall in love with a tool just because you use it every day.

Few of us here get paid based on the tool. We get paid based on results, and that means results over a long haul.

Code monkeys speaking nearly any language can be found all over the place. If you want something using the latest tools your best bet is some young buck graduate. Or offshore.

If you have significant software assets (working solutions) you migrate and work those with the best path you can find. Sometimes that results in integrating different tools, sometimes going for newer tools, sometimes interfacing newer technologies into existing tools. Using well tested Delphi code alongside HTML5 and javascript is not a bad combination. YMMV.

If you are looking for folks who jump from one tool to another, having to convert existing solutions every few years based on market whim, go find that where it might exist. Sometimes they hit home runs, mostly they strike out.

Me, I'll hang out with folks who deliver results over a long haul. I much prefer long lived applications and solutions.

Dan
Marcellao Dias

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 28, 2016 11:46 AM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Thid CGI Dev did not impressed me very much,The browse example blink like a Cristmas three.
And the sample broke three times,TMS is really stable but not RIA.
I finally decide myself for UNIGUI,although I had to pay for it.
For me expensive is when your work for month is something and can´t sell them to anybody.

Daniel Fields wrote:
Wait a minute. We are conflating multiple issues, and making an improper comparison. I think there is major value in Atozed focusing on the engine, Intraweb, and letting others address the interface elements. TMS Software, CG Dev and IWBootstrap have filled in that space and given us capabilities that we once longed for as IW developers. Without those companies we would not have a competitive tool in the web and mobile era. It would be harder to use IW as a primary development tool without them.

Atozed has been at this for a long time. Their Partial Update feature was doing Ajax-like things a long time ago. I used to use it to perform magic over dialup connections. They have evolved with every advancement in Internet and Web technology. They were the first to let me use my VCL skills on the web. Period. I know from rigorous testing that Intraweb is a rock-solid foundation for web servers. I can put an IW application on port 80, in the real world. That means it can compete against IIS and Apache on the most common webserver technology level. I can decide what level of defenses I want to activate. I can build my own security measures right into the server itself.

UniGUI looks very cool. I spent a great deal of time on the site. They do have an impressive presentation. It would be nice if we had those resources for IW, but it is not a deal breaker for me because I am long past the point of shopping for a solution. I think the direct comparison is improper because you would need IW+CGDev to equal uniGUI. Atozed should have better material to showcase its strengths as a platform. You can easily compare CG Dev to the Sencha Ext JS portion of UniGUI. That is a direct comparison which appears to be evenly matched at the component level. CGDev wins on prices, hands down, $299 versus $890.

I said "appears" to be close because of one simple factor: UniGUI is in BETA. You cannot even start the comparison to IW until it is actually released and that label is removed. UniGUI had the benefit of an existing model, Intraweb, and bypassing user interface controls by using Sencha. When IW started they had to create every single bit of framework and controls. They got to skip an entire decade of massive technology change.

I am certain that the product is still in beta because they are learning what it means to be a webserver. There is more work than just serving pages and client requests. Take a look at the ServerController's properties and events. There is so much capability there that will have to be matched by UniGUI. Those properties barely scrolled back in 2005. At least twice they have re-done the entire architecture, forcing me to start with a fresh project to migrate old applications. The product has gotten better every time. You have missed major advancements in the technology, and will not be able to summarize them in a quick product review.

Right now, Intraweb is powering systems in banking and casinos that I know of personally. Mission critical systems that cannot afford to be down, and must withstand thousands of probes every day. UniGUI cannot possibly be at that level in version 0.99. I am not saying it's impossible, but I would bet they have a long list of items that they are addressing to get to that point. I will keep an eye on their progress, but until they proclaim themselves read-for-the-world I will stick with Intraweb+CGDev+TMS.

This community is very active and ready to assist. If you keep asking specific questions, we can help overcome what is missing in documentation. The demos are updated frequently, and offer current examples on almost everything.
Daniel Fields

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Jul 28, 2016 12:13 PM   in response to: Marcellao Dias in response to: Marcellao Dias
I have not gotten those results from the CG Dev products. I use them extensively and have never seen any display issues. RIA is a very broad term. Any description of it typically means that most activity is done client-side, asynchronously. That is determined my the structure of your application, not the components. All of the TMS components can be used in that mode. I have mixed their components with CG Dev to produce extensive UIs that work asynchronously.
Marcello O.DIAS

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 4, 2016 12:40 PM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Unigui professional costs 680.
But a fair Comparison would be how much Intraweb+TMS costs vS Unigui costs.
Because we´re already paying for Intraweb in every Delphi Licence,isn´t it?
I think Sencha gets u$ 350.
For me both of them are really cheap for what they do,open source ,and big companies like Google and Microsoft
are playing a dirty game,it benefits us,but its a dirty game.
But first,I don´t use Dart+Polymer,React+Redux,and so on,because they don´t fill my requirements(code producitivity).
Second,I´m finding work because of UNIGUI,since people are saving their investents in Delphi Code.
So don´t let FMSoft know but ,at least for me I would have paid more for it.
As I said Delphi is expensive,because I´m not being able to sell the work I produce with it (executables),
I would not complain if it cost u$ 2500 but let me earn u$ 4.000 a month.
So at least for me UNIGUI was a water botlte in the middle of the desert,something priceless.


Daniel Fields wrote:
Wait a minute. We are conflating multiple issues, and making an improper comparison. I think there is major value in Atozed focusing on the engine, Intraweb, and letting others address the interface elements. TMS Software, CG Dev and IWBootstrap have filled in that space and given us capabilities that we once longed for as IW developers. Without those companies we would not have a competitive tool in the web and mobile era. It would be harder to use IW as a primary development tool without them.

Atozed has been at this for a long time. Their Partial Update feature was doing Ajax-like things a long time ago. I used to use it to perform magic over dialup connections. They have evolved with every advancement in Internet and Web technology. They were the first to let me use my VCL skills on the web. Period. I know from rigorous testing that Intraweb is a rock-solid foundation for web servers. I can put an IW application on port 80, in the real world. That means it can compete against IIS and Apache on the most common webserver technology level. I can decide what level of defenses I want to activate. I can build my own security measures right into the server itself.

UniGUI looks very cool. I spent a great deal of time on the site. They do have an impressive presentation. It would be nice if we had those resources for IW, but it is not a deal breaker for me because I am long past the point of shopping for a solution. I think the direct comparison is improper because you would need IW+CGDev to equal uniGUI. Atozed should have better material to showcase its strengths as a platform. You can easily compare CG Dev to the Sencha Ext JS portion of UniGUI. That is a direct comparison which appears to be evenly matched at the component level. CGDev wins on prices, hands down, $299 versus $890.
Alexandre Machado

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 5, 2016 4:23 AM   in response to: Marcello O.DIAS in response to: Marcello O.DIAS
Interesting.

- You created 2 different forum users in the same day.
- Both have 1 single post
- Both posts in the same IntraWeb thread
- Both saying exactly the same thing (how you have chosen another product over IntraWeb)
- You did exactly the same thing on Facebook Delphi User Group.

Maybe - just maybe - your opinion can even be honest, however your means are suspicious.
Marcello O.DIAS

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Registered: 7/16/16
Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 5, 2016 8:02 AM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
I´m not allowed to like the tool I´m using if it is not INTRAWEB?
It was not me who said the word UNIGUI here for the first time.
The Facebook thread you´re talking about was about UNIGUI,
you´ve jumped in.
Yes I want UNIGUI to become more popular than Intraweb,My interest is
really have more work,make people know that finally we can have RIA applications
in Delphi,and UNIGUI is the only option available until now.
In this thread I have just corrected wrong information about the cost of Unigui.
I´ve no connections with FMSOFT if it is what you´re suggesting.
If you look Marcello Dias Delphi You will probably see messages from 2002 of me saying kindly words about REM Objects,
Nevrona Rave Reports Code Based,Eureka Log,and Intraweb,because i Don´t like misconceptions ,specailly when a company
is really good at supporting.
Probably with more users like me, Delphi would have be stronger now, and did not have lost so many users in the past.
See this one,uau probably I had something with ATOZED in the past.
http://www.programmersheaven.com/discussion/164603/my-ideal-environment

Marcello

Alexandre Machado wrote:
Interesting.

- You created 2 different forum users in the same day.
- Both have 1 single post
- Both posts in the same IntraWeb thread
- Both saying exactly the same thing (how you have chosen another product over IntraWeb)
- You did exactly the same thing on Facebook Delphi User Group.

Maybe - just maybe - your opinion can even be honest, however your means are suspicious.

Edited by: Marcello O.DIAS on Aug 5, 2016 8:03 AM
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 5, 2016 10:57 AM   in response to: Marcello O.DIAS in response to: Marcello O.DIAS
You are free to use whatever tool you want. Go do that.

Your behavior here is suspicious, and offensive. If you believe you are "helping your cause" by offending others, you are wrong.

Dan

Marcello O.DIAS wrote:
I´m not allowed to like the tool I´m using if it is not INTRAWEB?
It was not me who said the word UNIGUI here for the first time.
The Facebook thread you´re talking about was about UNIGUI,
you´ve jumped in.
Yes I want UNIGUI to become more popular than Intraweb,My interest is
really have more work,make people know that finally we can have RIA applications
in Delphi,and UNIGUI is the only option available until now.
In this thread I have just corrected wrong information about the cost of Unigui.
I´ve no connections with FMSOFT if it is what you´re suggesting.
If you look Marcello Dias Delphi You will probably see messages from 2002 of me saying kindly words about REM Objects,
Nevrona Rave Reports Code Based,Eureka Log,and Intraweb,because i Don´t like misconceptions ,specailly when a company
is really good at supporting.
Probably with more users like me, Delphi would have be stronger now, and did not have lost so many users in the past.
See this one,uau probably I had something with ATOZED in the past.
http://www.programmersheaven.com/discussion/164603/my-ideal-environment

Marcello

Alexandre Machado wrote:
Interesting.

- You created 2 different forum users in the same day.
- Both have 1 single post
- Both posts in the same IntraWeb thread
- Both saying exactly the same thing (how you have chosen another product over IntraWeb)
- You did exactly the same thing on Facebook Delphi User Group.

Maybe - just maybe - your opinion can even be honest, however your means are suspicious.

Edited by: Marcello O.DIAS on Aug 5, 2016 8:03 AM

Edited by: Dan Barclay on Aug 5, 2016 12:58 PM
Marcello O.DIAS

Posts: 23
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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 5, 2016 12:45 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
I understand the problems of the two created accounts.
Isn´t it clear they both are me?Did I pretend I was someone else?
Marcellao Dias and Marcello Dias seems so Different?
Did not want to cheat anybody, or offended anybody.
I don´t think I did it in Facebook also ,But I have three accounts,one I used for my family,one for everybody(which I use for Delphi groups),
and one for my 5 year old(without friends) play with emoticons,all them Marcello Dias.
I really did not started to use Embarcadero Foruns in 2016 to promote anything,just don´t have acess to my old account anymore.
I have a problem logging in FireFox,cleaned the cash,did everything I could ,just wanted to see if creating another account would help just that.
I´m, not so experienced in Web Programming,Never had these problem in Intraweb,So I just wanted to see if creating a new account would help.
Yes probably a stupid idea from someone who did not want to waste 10 minutes analyzing the problem.
Must be something with cookies.
Thats why I create two accounts in the same day.
Be sure that if wanted to to pretend I was someone else ,I would call myself João da Silva.
In fact I probably have more three accounts here,Since I don´t have acess to those corporative emails anymore.
I really did not starting using this forum in 2016,loking to promote anything.
I´ll try to use just one of them.

Server Error in '/' Application.
Encrypted ID must be 14 characters
Parameter name: szValue
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.ArgumentException: Encrypted ID must be 14 characters
Parameter name: szValue

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[ArgumentException: Encrypted ID must be 14 characters
Parameter name: szValue]
EDN.Util.EDNUtils.CommDecrypt(String szValue) in D:\CDN\trunk\CDN\Dev\Shared\net\EDN.Util\EDNUtils.cs:483
EDN.Util.UserCookie.GetUserID() in D:\CDN\trunk\CDN\Dev\Shared\net\EDN.Util\UserCookie.cs:231
EDN.Util.UserCookie.CookieIsSet() in D:\CDN\trunk\CDN\Dev\Shared\net\EDN.Util\UserCookie.cs:388
Global.Session_Start(Object sender, EventArgs e) +27
System.Web.SessionState.SessionStateModule.RaiseOnStart(EventArgs e) +9734615
System.Web.SessionState.SessionStateModule.CompleteAcquireState() +155
System.Web.SessionState.SessionStateModule.BeginAcquireState(Object source, EventArgs e, AsyncCallback cb, Object extraData) +1095
System.Web.AsyncEventExecutionStep.System.Web.HttpApplication.IExecutionStep.Execute() +285
System.Web.HttpApplication.ExecuteStep(IExecutionStep step, Boolean& completedSynchronously) +155

But I´ll be more "Respectfull" in the future.

Marcello Dias

I

Encrypted ID must be 14 characters
Parameter name: szValue
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.ArgumentException: Encrypted ID must be 14 characters
Parameter name: szValue

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[ArgumentException: Encrypted ID must be 14 characters
Parameter name: szValue]
EDN.Util.EDNUtils.CommDecrypt(String szValue) in D:\CDN\trunk\CDN\Dev\Shared\net\EDN.Util\EDNUtils.cs:483
EDN.Util.UserCookie.GetUserID() in D:\CDN\trunk\CDN\Dev\Shared\net\EDN.Util\UserCookie.cs:231
EDN.Util.UserCookie.CookieIsSet() in D:\CDN\trunk\CDN\Dev\Shared\net\EDN.Util\UserCookie.cs:388
Global.Session_Start(Object sender, EventArgs e) +27
System.Web.SessionState.SessionStateModule.RaiseOnStart(EventArgs e) +9734615
System.Web.SessionState.SessionStateModule.CompleteAcquireState() +155
System.Web.SessionState.SessionStateModule.BeginAcquireState(Object source, EventArgs e, AsyncCallback cb, Object extraData) +1095
System.Web.AsyncEventExecutionStep.System.Web.HttpApplication.IExecutionStep.Execute() +285
System.Web.HttpApplication.ExecuteStep(IExecutionStep step, Boolean& completedSynchronously) +155

Marcello

Dan Barclay wrote:
You are free to use whatever tool you want. Go do that.

Your behavior here is suspicious, and offensive. If you believe you are "helping your cause" by offending others, you are wrong.

Dan
rclay on Aug 5, 2016 12:58 PM
Marcello O.DIAS

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 5, 2016 1:18 PM   in response to: Marcello O.DIAS in response to: Marcello O.DIAS
In fact it seems to be a very old bug in Embarcadero´s Forum.
I´m not the only one having problems with it.
I´m not so stupidy them.
Alexandre Machado

Posts: 1,754
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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 5, 2016 4:49 PM   in response to: Marcello O.DIAS in response to: Marcello O.DIAS
Marcello O.DIAS wrote:
I´m not allowed to like the tool I´m using if it is not INTRAWEB?

You are allowed to do anything you like, including using assembly to create a web application.

It was not me who said the word UNIGUI here for the first time.
The Facebook thread you´re talking about was about UNIGUI,
you´ve jumped in.

This forum is about IntraWeb, the main IntraWeb support channel, and I think you are jumping in.
Don't blame me if your attitude looks suspicious. It does. I follow these groups since ever, long before even seeing IntraWeb the first time.
I have 2 accounts and more than 8k posts in EMBT forums (which were also reset many times in all those years), and honestly, I don't know you.

IntraWeb and its creator, Chad Hower, have been attacked by dirty people without any scruple for decades. One moron even created a blog just to write lies about IntraWeb and Chad himself.

I apologize for the misunderstanding, however, I still think this is not the adequate place for this.
Marcello Dias

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Re: Intraweb still being developed? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Aug 5, 2016 6:35 PM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
ok.Don´t want this thread to go more off tpic than it already is.
I just came here,because I used the search topic for UNIGUI,and it happens two people were already comparing them.
Like UNIGUI is still in Beta,They´re already reallizing what a Web Server is about,and so on..
And maybe I have lost my temper a little bit and left another message,not more than that.
Just serch MARCELLO DIAS in Search,I used to open Bugs in Quality Central,Those are already there.
I dont hide anybody that the last 7 years I worked as a CIO,not involved with programming at all.

https://forums.embarcadero.com/thread.jspa?threadID=227488&tstart=0
Also I think not all Borland Messages were migrated,and I most the time used Usenet,since I was very upset and a little bit agressive with Borland Between 2003 and 2007.
Regards Chad Hower, I take him as a hero,not only for Intraweb but also for Indy.
During Years,it was the best we had,and even UNIGUI uses Indy until today.

Edited by: Marcello Dias on Aug 5, 2016 6:44 PM
Daniel Fields

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Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Aug 5, 2016 1:54 PM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
The problem I have with your argument is that you assume everyone is to piece or contract work. I have not done that in over a decade. Many of us build and support products for our own companies. I provide services that businesses subscribe to on a monthly basis. I chose the best tool for my situation and long term development. When I was doing contract work I took jobs that used many different technologies, not just Delphi. A developer with a singular skill set will always have trouble finding work, no matter which tool they use.

I have heard arguments like yours since 1984 when I started using Turbo Pascal. Delphi should not dictate how much you earn, your skill set should determine that. Based upon your statements you will end up in the same place once work for UniGUI slows down. That does not sound like a great way to move forward.

I respect your choices, but you cannot assume that everyone has chosen the same career path.
Marcello Dias

Posts: 10
Registered: 1/17/16
Re: Intraweb still being developed?  
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  Posted: Apr 2, 2018 1:57 PM   in response to: Arthur Hoornweg in response to: Arthur Hoornweg
Well,
I usually don´t reply to very old threads,but since I criticized IW so much,I think its fair to say that IW17 not only addresses all what
I said about Intraweb ,but introduces things only present in the most modern frameworks outside the Delphi World.
Client side rendering without any help of the server,Websockets,No need to write a single line of javascript in order to have fast rendering in the client side,due the new architecture the mantra "IW is for WebApss not WebSites" will no longer make sense.
WebSockets,Wordpress,and Maybe Wix integration(this is my wish not a Atozed promisse).
Of course TypeScript is not only helping Intraweb but also every single JavaScript framework on the planet,if Sencha and Embarcadero are smart they must embrace TypeScript as soon as they can.
Also IWML is an Oasis to the eyes of those who tried to use Angular or Polymer.
I also have had a look in the TMS upcoming solution,but think liked more the Intraweb proposal since it will be possible to generate a DLL,and also will have built-in protection from some javascript flaws,something TMS won´t do,and of course the WordPress integration is a killer feature.
The fact that IW17 will be compatible with IW14 is also a killer feature,and also I have experience migrating desktop applications,and old IW4 applications to newer versions with almost no work,just with a parser,something that is not possible if you have to write a single line in a alien language (Javascript).

Marcello
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