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Thread: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?



Permlink Replies: 20 - Last Post: Feb 2, 2018 8:56 PM Last Post By: Mike Margerum Threads: [ Previous | Next ]
Pasquale Esposito

Posts: 50
Registered: 6/5/13
Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 9, 2017 12:58 AM
Hello everybody,

I'm sure you all know that in about 20 days Apple will no longer allow you to publish your FireMonkey macOS apps on the App Store. This is because FireMonkey can only create 32-bit macOS apps, which will not be accepted on the Apple App Store as of 1 January 2018.

Even worse, by June 2018, your 32-bit macOS apps that are already on the App Store must be updated to 64-bit, otherwise they will be eliminated by Apple.

It looks like Embarcadero is going to equip the next FireMonkey version with a 64-bit compiler for macOS.

Do you know if they are also going to release a patch for previous FireMonkey versions to allow you to compile your macOS apps to 64-bit?

Thanks in advance.
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 9, 2017 3:28 AM   in response to: Pasquale Esposito in response to: Pasquale Esposito
Pasquale Esposito wrote:
Hello everybody,

I'm sure you all know that in about 20 days Apple will no longer allow you to publish your FireMonkey macOS apps on the App Store. This is because FireMonkey can only create 32-bit macOS apps, which will not be accepted on the Apple App Store as of 1 January 2018.

Even worse, by June 2018, your 32-bit macOS apps that are already on the App Store must be updated to 64-bit, otherwise they will be eliminated by Apple.

It looks like Embarcadero is going to equip the next FireMonkey version with a 64-bit compiler for macOS.

Do you know if they are also going to release a patch for previous FireMonkey versions to allow you to compile your macOS apps to 64-bit?

No. It is whole new compiler with accompanying libraries and tools.
There will be no patch.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Embarcadero MVP
https://dalija.prasnikar.info/
Delphi Memory Management for Classic and ARC Compilers
https://dalija.prasnikar.info/delphimm/
Pasquale Esposito

Posts: 50
Registered: 6/5/13
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 9, 2017 11:15 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

No. It is whole new compiler with accompanying libraries and tools.
There will be no patch.

Will it be possible to load an XE5 FireMonkey project (which also includes some FastReport modules) into the next version of RAD Studio and recompile it to 64-bit for macOS?
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 9, 2017 11:41 AM   in response to: Pasquale Esposito in response to: Pasquale Esposito
Pasquale Esposito wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

No. It is whole new compiler with accompanying libraries and tools.
There will be no patch.

Will it be possible to load an XE5 FireMonkey project (which also includes some FastReport modules) into the next version of RAD Studio and recompile it to 64-bit for macOS?

Define load and recompile.

Firemonkey is constantly improving and changing, there might
have been some breaking API changes from XE5.

I am not familiar with FastReport so I cannot answer that part.

Besides, regular compatibility issues that may arise from moving
between Delphi versions, you might have code that is not compatible
with 64-bit compiler.

Basically same rules apply as with moving code from 32-bit Windows
to 64-bit Windows.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Embarcadero MVP
https://dalija.prasnikar.info/
Delphi Memory Management for Classic and ARC Compilers
https://dalija.prasnikar.info/delphimm/
Pasquale Esposito

Posts: 50
Registered: 6/5/13
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 10, 2017 12:21 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Pasquale Esposito wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

No. It is whole new compiler with accompanying libraries and tools.
There will be no patch.

Will it be possible to load an XE5 FireMonkey project (which also includes some FastReport modules) into the next version of RAD Studio and recompile it to 64-bit for macOS?

Define load and recompile.

Firemonkey is constantly improving and changing, there might
have been some breaking API changes from XE5.

I am not familiar with FastReport so I cannot answer that part.

Besides, regular compatibility issues that may arise from moving
between Delphi versions, you might have code that is not compatible
with 64-bit compiler.

Basically same rules apply as with moving code from 32-bit Windows
to 64-bit Windows.

--

By "load and recompile" I just mean load in the next version of FireMonkey a project developed in FireMonkey XE5 and recompile it to 64-bit for macOS. Right now the app works on Windows and macOS Sierra sharing exactly the same code, so there is no explicit reference to any Windows API. I haven't tested the app on High Sierra, though.
Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 556
Registered: 10/14/04
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 10, 2017 11:24 AM   in response to: Pasquale Esposito in response to: Pasquale Esposito
the only issue you might have is with maybe some integer types
but also if you happen to use asm , that will not work in 64 bit (similar problem for 64 bit windows now or 64 bit linux)?
Ronald Klitsche

Posts: 326
Registered: 8/26/01
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 11, 2017 2:19 AM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
Brian Hamilton Hamilton wrote:
the only issue you might have is with maybe some integer types
but also if you happen to use asm , that will not work in 64 bit (similar problem for 64 bit windows now or 64 bit linux)?
Should not it be a nextgen compiler: ARC enabled!
Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 556
Registered: 10/14/04
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 9, 2017 9:59 AM   in response to: Pasquale Esposito in response to: Pasquale Esposito
Question:
if your program is installed via a package outside of the app store
will that program (32 bit) still run after June 2018?
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 9, 2017 10:57 AM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
Brian Hamilton Hamilton wrote:
Question:
if your program is installed via a package outside of the app store
will that program (32 bit) still run after June 2018?

AFAIK they should work (there is some confusing info on the subject, because
it seems that some older apps don't work with High Sierra, but due to other
incompatibilities), so before actually trying you cannot tell for sure.

High Sierra is the last macOS that will support 32-bit apps and what will
happen after that is unknown.

https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac-software/which-apps-wont-work-in-macos-high-sierra-3664177/

https://www.macworld.co.uk/review/mac-software/macos-high-sierra-review-3659892/

https://www.howtogeek.com/316073/how-to-check-your-mac-for-32-bit-applications-that-will-stop-working-after-high-sierra/

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Embarcadero MVP
https://dalija.prasnikar.info/
Delphi Memory Management for Classic and ARC Compilers
https://dalija.prasnikar.info/delphimm/

Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 556
Registered: 10/14/04
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 9, 2017 8:18 PM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
AFAIK they should work (there is some confusing info on the subject, because
it seems that some older apps don't work with High Sierra, but due to other
incompatibilities), so before actually trying you cannot tell for sure.

High Sierra is the last macOS that will support 32-bit apps and what will
happen after that is unknown.

My FMX program does work with High Sierra but I have had reports of a certain routine causing a crash , which I am not sure why, I need to get high sierra installed so I can test here I guess
Wil van Antwerpen

Posts: 24
Registered: 11/26/01
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 14, 2017 5:20 PM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
FWIW, so far I have no had any reports that my FMX app (Vimalin) has had any issues on High Sierra.

It is also not in the app store, so hopefully can still get a bit of mileage out of it before we're forced to go all 64 bits ;)

--
Wil
Bob Carson

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Registered: 10/8/04
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Dec 9, 2017 1:44 PM   in response to: Pasquale Esposito in response to: Pasquale Esposito
I have apps for Macintosh www.accessoryware.com/Macintoshsoft.htm, and around the beginning of November someone contacted me using OS 11 about problems running Quick Quotes. The following is a quote from the client running Quick Quotes www.accessoryware.com/freesoft.htm:

"It runs in safe mode and under OS 9.5 on the same computer.
with OS 11.6 console says:

11/8/17 4:25:15.348 PM Finder[402]: spawn_via_launchd() failed, errno=1 label=QQMACBndl.7383072 path=/Applications/QuickQuote.app/Contents/MacOS/QuickQuote flags=1 : LaunchApplicationClient.cp #1136 LaunchApplicationViaLaunchDJobLabel() q=com.apple.root.default-qos

11/8/17 4:25:15.348 PM Finder[402]: spawn_via_launchd() failed, errno=1 label=QQMACBndl.7383072 path=/Applications/QuickQuote.app/Contents/MacOS/QuickQuote flags=1


It appears there is a problem in: QuickQuote.app/Contents/MacOS/QuickQuote."

and

"What you see makes no sense. quick quotes runs on Mac OS 9.5 and Mac OS 11.6 in safe mode. All on the same computer. It just does not run on Mac OS 11.6 El-Captan on the same computer. Doesn’t the console entries help you?"

Wil van Antwerpen

Posts: 24
Registered: 11/26/01
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Jan 25, 2018 6:01 PM   in response to: Pasquale Esposito in response to: Pasquale Esposito
Bump..

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/apple-prepares-macos-users-for-discontinuation-of-32-bit-app-support/

In 10.13.4 users are going to get a warning that your app is 32 bits... <sarcasm> ..that will really help with sales. </sarcasm>

Where's the 64 bit compiler?
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 9,447
Registered: 12/23/01
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Jan 25, 2018 6:34 PM   in response to: Wil van Antwerpen in response to: Wil van Antwerpen
Wil van Antwerpen wrote:

Where's the 64 bit compiler?

Per the latest roadmap, it is scheduled for RAD Studio 10.3 for Delphi,
10.3.x for C++Builder. Both to be released on as-yet-unspecified dates
later this year.

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Wil van Antwerpen

Posts: 24
Registered: 11/26/01
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Jan 26, 2018 5:53 AM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
Hi Remy,

Thanks for your reply.

Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
Wil van Antwerpen wrote:

Where's the 64 bit compiler?

Per the latest roadmap, it is scheduled for RAD Studio 10.3 for Delphi,
10.3.x for C++Builder. Both to be released on as-yet-unspecified dates
later this year.

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)

I know it is coming, the problem is that it will be arriving late, most likely after 10.13.4 is released.

We don't even know yet how much work it will be to change over our code to 64 bits and test it all again.

For my existing customers it is fine, I can tell them the 64 bits version is "on the way" and will be there when 10.14 is going to be released.
For prospects however this is utter fail and is certain to cost sales, who is going to invest in a tool that won't run on the next update of your OS?

--
Wil
Pasquale Esposito

Posts: 50
Registered: 6/5/13
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Jan 26, 2018 7:21 AM   in response to: Wil van Antwerpen in response to: Wil van Antwerpen
Wil van Antwerpen wrote:
Hi Remy,

Thanks for your reply.

Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
Wil van Antwerpen wrote:

Where's the 64 bit compiler?

Per the latest roadmap, it is scheduled for RAD Studio 10.3 for Delphi,
10.3.x for C++Builder. Both to be released on as-yet-unspecified dates
later this year.

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)

I know it is coming, the problem is that it will be arriving late, most likely after 10.13.4 is released.

We don't even know yet how much work it will be to change over our code to 64 bits and test it all again.

For my existing customers it is fine, I can tell them the 64 bits version is "on the way" and will be there when 10.14 is going to be released.
For prospects however this is utter fail and is certain to cost sales, who is going to invest in a tool that won't run on the next update of your OS?

--
Wil

I couldn't agree more.

What is depressing is that FireMonkey is the only cross-platform programming language that does not allow you to do so. Lazarus, LiveCode, Xojo and all the other development tools on the market have supported 64-bit compiling for macOS for many years.
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Jan 29, 2018 6:33 AM   in response to: Pasquale Esposito in response to: Pasquale Esposito
What is depressing is that FireMonkey is the only cross-platform programming language that does not allow you to do so. Lazarus, LiveCode, Xojo and all the other development tools on the market have supported 64-bit compiling for macOS for many years.

Lazarus doesn't support 64 bit mac/cocoa unless im missing something. I
think it uses carbon which is 32 bit only?
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 9,447
Registered: 12/23/01
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Jan 29, 2018 10:25 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

Lazarus doesn't support 64 bit mac/cocoa unless im missing something.
I think it uses carbon which is 32 bit only?

Yes, Carbon is 32bit only. But the LCL supports Cocoa and Qt, which
both support 64bit. Lazarus itself is 32bit, but it can produce 64bit
executables, and can use your choice of LCL. There are users in the
FreePascal/Lazarus community that are making MacOS 64bit apps with
Lazarus. If you want specific details, I suggest you ask in the
FreePascal forums.

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Feb 2, 2018 8:56 PM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
Yes, Carbon is 32bit only. But the LCL supports Cocoa and Qt, which
both support 64bit. Lazarus itself is 32bit, but it can produce 64bit
executables, and can use your choice of LCL. There are users in the
FreePascal/Lazarus community that are making MacOS 64bit apps with
Lazarus. If you want specific details, I suggest you ask in the
FreePascal forums.

Thanks for the clarifications. I'll dig into this a bit more.
Wil van Antwerpen

Posts: 24
Registered: 11/26/01
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Jan 30, 2018 2:50 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:
What is depressing is that FireMonkey is the only cross-platform programming language that does not allow you to do so. Lazarus, LiveCode, Xojo and all the other development tools on the market have supported 64-bit compiling for macOS for many years.

Lazarus doesn't support 64 bit mac/cocoa unless im missing something. I
think it uses carbon which is 32 bit only?

The 64 bits cocoa LCL in freepascal is coming along nicely.
The main issue is getting your config to work so you can debug and compile to 64 bits with cocoa.
Like Remy says, you can just use the 32 bits Lazarus cocoa IDE to build and debug the 64 bits applications.
That works well and feels better as the cross compile / remote debugging world we are forced to use with Delphi.

This is what I am currently looking into instead of having to keep on twiddling my thumbs and waiting on Embarcaradero to release something so we can start to work on moving to 64 bits.
Ronald Klitsche

Posts: 326
Registered: 8/26/01
Re: Will a 64-bit macOS compiler be available for old FireMonkey versions?
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  Posted: Jan 26, 2018 9:08 AM   in response to: Wil van Antwerpen in response to: Wil van Antwerpen
Wil van Antwerpen wrote:
We don't even know yet how much work it will be to change over our code to 64 bits and test it all again.

The 64Bit part of non platform code, may be checked with the Win64.
But the macOS 64bit will will most likely a nextgen compiler.
That challenge will be ARC and no AnsiStrings.

Ronald
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