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Thread: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?



Permlink Replies: 20 - Last Post: Jul 24, 2017 10:51 PM Last Post By: Markus Humm
Arno Brinkman

Posts: 17
Registered: 9/29/99
Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 3, 2017 4:15 AM
Is the current status of Firemonkey compared to the VCL ready to be used for "bigger" projects?
Any developers already experience with this?

Information or page-links with what to expect (challenges/missing/bugs/etc...) when building applications with Firemonkey compared to the VCL would be welcomed.
Bob Carson

Posts: 62
Registered: 10/8/04
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 3, 2017 3:59 PM   in response to: Arno Brinkman in response to: Arno Brinkman
Thank you for the opportunity to promote my software. Most of what you will see on my web page is written using FireMonkey: www.accessoryware.com . All of the mobile is FireMonkey, obviously. Now, my apps aren't anything special or Fantastic, but FireMonkey capabilities go way beyond what I can do. I'm an old guy, been programming more than 30 years, and of all I have seen, FireMonkey is the easiest and most effective development tool on the market today! Don't worry about bugs, they get fixed. Get in there and get active. Try this and try that. That can be the fun part of programming.
Come up with a quick design and start coding. Use the sample to get started learning!
Arno Brinkman

Posts: 17
Registered: 9/29/99
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 6, 2017 2:38 AM   in response to: Bob Carson in response to: Bob Carson
Bob Carson wrote:
Thank you for the opportunity to promote my software. Most of what you will see on my web page is written using FireMonkey: www.accessoryware.com . All of the mobile is FireMonkey, obviously. Now, my apps aren't anything special or Fantastic, but FireMonkey capabilities go way beyond what I can do. I'm an old guy, been programming more than 30 years, and of all I have seen, FireMonkey is the easiest and most effective development tool on the market today! Don't worry about bugs, they get fixed. Get in there and get active. Try this and try that. That can be the fun part of programming.
Come up with a quick design and start coding. Use the sample to get started learning!

Still some nice applications there. I'll have close look on some of them.
Registered User

Posts: 46
Registered: 3/4/05
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 3, 2017 8:43 PM   in response to: Arno Brinkman in response to: Arno Brinkman
Arno Brinkman wrote:
Is the current status of Firemonkey compared to the VCL ready to be used for "bigger" projects?
Any developers already experience with this?

Information or page-links with what to expect (challenges/missing/bugs/etc...) when building applications with Firemonkey compared to the VCL would be welcomed.

There are definitely some different approaches required to do the same thing, I recall reading the events for refreshing pages/ controls need to be handled smarter - alot more resources required to render alot of controls, forget having a big form/ tabsheet with lots of controls on it unless you dont value user experience.

In 3D a couple thousand cloned simple triangle objects and the framerate drops to unsuable (on powerful PC and GFX).

I have a massive project in VCL.I wont be migrating that all off to FMX anytime soon, been burnt enough with Datasnap.

Im using a parnasus VCL FMX container, Im using just the 3D component to render some visual stuff that you just cant do as well or as easy in VCL, best of both for now. In dev for this portion at the moment so we see how it goes once we go to production. Already had one weird inexplicable crash with FMX.

FMX and transparency, it only works from back to front... have to pay attention to the order you render in.
Shanil M

Posts: 62
Registered: 12/24/04
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 8, 2017 1:22 AM   in response to: Registered User in response to: Registered User
been burnt enough with Datasnap.

Please elaborate. I was thinking of using datasnap in my next phase. How else are we supposed to cloud-enable our apps using AWS for example?
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 9, 2017 2:26 PM   in response to: Shanil M in response to: Shanil M
Am 08.05.2017 um 10:22 schrieb Shanil M:
been burnt enough with Datasnap.

Please elaborate. I was thinking of using datasnap in my next phase. How else are we supposed to cloud-enable our apps using AWS for example?

Hello,

afaik there's some "cloud" components group on your components palette...

Greetings

Markus
Shanil M

Posts: 62
Registered: 12/24/04
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 9, 2017 11:09 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
been burnt enough with Datasnap.

I just wanted to know how he was burnt using datasnap. What problems were experienced.
Registered User

Posts: 46
Registered: 3/4/05
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 12, 2017 8:58 PM   in response to: Shanil M in response to: Shanil M
Shanil M wrote:
been burnt enough with Datasnap.

Please elaborate. I was thinking of using datasnap in my next phase. How else are we supposed to cloud-enable our apps using AWS for example?

Ok so there are a number of issues with datasnap i have found, the worst being:

The connection management on a less than 100% network (think WiFi/ Internet) will result in your apps hanging when trying to close the app or shutdown data snap clients.
Thread lockups waiting for data - again on less than 100% connection.
Indefinite timeouts in some code - so your app hangs if no response from server (looking at you **** TCallbackManager...)
Callback channels closing on server but leaving TCP ports open (client unaware the the callback has been removed from server end so waits forever on shutdown waiting for a response)
Datasnap supposedly uses JSON - it kind of does, but look at the traces its not proper JSON, its is terrible for sending raw data (have to encode everything base64 or as arrays so that the user cant crash your apps)
A TCP port disconnect can cause all sorts of hangs and access violations if mid data stream disconnects.
(not a DS problem but one that you might have) FireDac has some nasty memory overwrites that have not yet been corrected with stored procedures, were not fixed as of Berlin update 1.

Ive had to heavily modify datasnap to make it somewhat robust (TCP connection, no idea about HTTP), even then ive not covered some disconnect scenarios and can get access violations - so much time I have burnt on datasnap to date.

My suggestion would be to look at MORMot as a technology, but i have not used. I like its concept and haven't heard of any major issues, datasnap will work well if you connect to 127.0.0.1 for development, real world - not so sure its stable enough.
Shanil M

Posts: 62
Registered: 12/24/04
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 15, 2017 4:02 AM   in response to: Registered User in response to: Registered User
Registered User wrote:
so much time I have burnt on datasnap to date.

Thank you for taking the time to elaborate. I wonder if others have had similar experiences?
Eli M

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Registered: 11/9/13
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 6, 2017 12:12 AM   in response to: Arno Brinkman in response to: Arno Brinkman
Bob Carson

Posts: 62
Registered: 10/8/04
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 12, 2017 3:45 PM   in response to: Eli M in response to: Eli M

Excellent Editor! I like the apk explore feature. Well organized and easy to use! Works very well.
Arno Brinkman

Posts: 17
Registered: 9/29/99
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 6, 2017 2:36 AM   in response to: Arno Brinkman in response to: Arno Brinkman
Thank you all for the reactions so far.
I had hoped to get some more and detailed response.

Regards,
Arno

Edited by: Arno Brinkman on May 6, 2017 11:38 AM
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it? [Edit]
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  Posted: May 9, 2017 2:31 PM   in response to: Arno Brinkman in response to: Arno Brinkman
Am 06.05.2017 um 11:39 schrieb Arno Brinkman:
Thank you all for the reactions so far.
I had hoped to get some more and detailed response.

Regards,
Arno

Hello,

I was developing some app with a few 10.000 loc until I had to put it
aside due to priority changes (will get back to it). Mostly works well.

Some issues:
- debugging is comparatively slow and some data types cannot be properly
inspected, but on that front Berlin added some welcome little
improvements
- linker sometimes throws an error which requires to "clean" the project
by that command in the project manager. This leads to a time consuming
complete recompilation of the project and is a bit nerving
- I already heared that compile times are not really worse compared to
other Android solutions
- FMX contains a live preview feature where you run a little client app
on the device and when you design some form in form designer you can
see some instant preview on one or even more devices.
- Tokyo ruined Android support by making it dog slow at runtime for apps
with a bit more complexity/size. EMBT is currently working on fixes
for these speed issues

Greetings

Markus
Francesco Marano

Posts: 59
Registered: 11/18/02
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 7, 2017 12:16 PM   in response to: Arno Brinkman in response to: Arno Brinkman
I developed this software:
http://www.beachpass.it

You can have a look at a few screenshots here:
https://itunes.apple.com/it/app/beachpass/id1227195319?mt=12
Bob Carson

Posts: 62
Registered: 10/8/04
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 12, 2017 10:32 AM   in response to: Francesco Marano in response to: Francesco Marano
Francesco Marano wrote:
I developed this software:
http://www.beachpass.it

You can have a look at a few screenshots here:
https://itunes.apple.com/it/app/beachpass/id1227195319?mt=12

Great Work! Very Original and Creative!
Registered User

Posts: 46
Registered: 3/4/05
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 17, 2017 9:39 PM   in response to: Arno Brinkman in response to: Arno Brinkman
Arno Brinkman wrote:
Is the current status of Firemonkey compared to the VCL ready to be used for "bigger" projects?
Any developers already experience with this?

Information or page-links with what to expect (challenges/missing/bugs/etc...) when building applications with Firemonkey compared to the VCL would be welcomed.

Ok now im more into my app another woeful issue is "Repaint" commonly i have to repaint a container object due to artifacts on screen (outlines of objects that just arent there most of the time)
What doesent work well is that repaint cannot be called in line - it will not actually work some or most of the time, i believe this is how Firemonkey renders, it is delayed or cannot be called in an "onresize" event.
Others have had the same issue with updating controls while a process is underway.
Ive had to put a 500ms timer triggered when an item is moved/ drawn so the entire panel can be refreshed. FM is fairly slow at redrawing items, 100ms timer was "Too fast" for it. Cruddy workaround to a bug basically.

Berlin 10.1 update 1.
Ronald Klitsche

Posts: 326
Registered: 8/26/01
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: May 18, 2017 1:42 AM   in response to: Arno Brinkman in response to: Arno Brinkman
Arno Brinkman wrote:
Is the current status of Firemonkey compared to the VCL ready to be used for "bigger" projects?
Any developers already experience with this?

If you compare with VCL, then cross platform is not the focus.
So, why not stay at VCL?
Guenter Kraemer

Posts: 23
Registered: 9/16/03
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: Jul 23, 2017 2:07 AM   in response to: Arno Brinkman in response to: Arno Brinkman
I am converting a bigger project to firemonkey, but I am having issues related to indy. It does not work all the time because indy use exceptions and the firemonkey framework is anyhow screwed regarding exceptions, and it can happen that the exe is terminated without warning.
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: Jul 23, 2017 5:21 AM   in response to: Guenter Kraemer in response to: Guenter Kraemer
Am 23.07.2017 um 11:07 schrieb Guenter Kraemer:
I am converting a bigger project to firemonkey, but I am having issues related to indy. It does not work all the time because indy use exceptions and the firemonkey framework is anyhow screwed regarding exceptions, and it can happen that the exe is terminated without warning.

Hello,

when reading your other post this issue refers to OS X. Afaik the OPP
asked about Windows, where the situation is different.

Greetings

Markus
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 9,447
Registered: 12/23/01
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: Jul 24, 2017 10:04 AM   in response to: Guenter Kraemer in response to: Guenter Kraemer
Guenter Kraemer wrote:

I am converting a bigger project to firemonkey, but I am having
issues related to indy.

What issues exactly? On what platforms?

It does not work all the time because indy use exceptions and the
firemonkey framework is anyhow screwed regarding exceptions

Only on OSX, other platforms should work fine.

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Firemonkey, someone already build a bigger windows project with it?
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  Posted: Jul 24, 2017 10:51 PM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
Am 24.07.2017 um 19:04 schrieb Remy Lebeau (TeamB):
Guenter Kraemer wrote:

I am converting a bigger project to firemonkey, but I am having
issues related to indy.

What issues exactly? On what platforms?

It does not work all the time because indy use exceptions and the
firemonkey framework is anyhow screwed regarding exceptions

Only on OSX, other platforms should work fine.

Hello,

there is a thread he created in this group where he talks about this OS
X issue. Maybe you know more about the situation there.

Since the OP was specifically asking about windows I don't see the need
to discuss this OS X specific issue in this thread when some dedicated
thread about that issue already exists.

Let's hope EMBT finds a solution for that as well and delivers it in an
update (as so many things we wish for ;-) ).

Greetings

Markus
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