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Thread: Now what?



Permlink Replies: 148 - Last Post: Apr 25, 2016 10:56 PM Last Post By: Markus Humm Threads: [ Previous | Next ]
Clement Doss

Posts: 133
Registered: 9/19/00
Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 6, 2016 1:08 PM
https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and Windows. "

Clément
Andrew Baylis

Posts: 27
Registered: 7/19/00
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 6, 2016 4:24 PM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
On 7/04/2016 6:08 AM, Clement Doss wrote:
https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and Windows."

Clément
Also, the following makes a very powerful FREE suite for developing
Windows and cross platform applications:

Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition
(https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-community-vs.aspx)

Syncfusion Community Edition (http://www.syncfusion.com/) - heaps of UI
tools!

Xamarin for Visual Studio (https://www.xamarin.com/visual-studio)

If you are still wedded to Pascal, RemObjects Oxygene is a reasonably
cheap addition (and far cheaper than Delphi). However, I have just spent
a month learning C# (having programmed in Pascal since Borland Turbo
Pascal was first released) and am amazed by how little code is actually
required to get very powerful applications (compared to Delphi). Data
Bindings work well, the Task Parallel library is a breeze to use and the
various language features such as LINQ streamline so much!

Whereto with Delphi / Embarcadero now??

Andrew
Phillip Woon

Posts: 189
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 6, 2016 8:40 PM   in response to: Andrew Baylis in response to: Andrew Baylis
Andrew Baylis wrote:
On 7/04/2016 6:08 AM, Clement Doss wrote:
https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and Windows."

Clément
Also, the following makes a very powerful FREE suite for developing
Windows and cross platform applications:

Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition
(https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-community-vs.aspx)

Syncfusion Community Edition (http://www.syncfusion.com/) - heaps of UI
tools!

Xamarin for Visual Studio (https://www.xamarin.com/visual-studio)

If you are still wedded to Pascal, RemObjects Oxygene is a reasonably
cheap addition (and far cheaper than Delphi). However, I have just spent
a month learning C# (having programmed in Pascal since Borland Turbo
Pascal was first released) and am amazed by how little code is actually
required to get very powerful applications (compared to Delphi). Data
Bindings work well, the Task Parallel library is a breeze to use and the
various language features such as LINQ streamline so much!

Whereto with Delphi / Embarcadero now??

Andrew

And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when people have moved on and come back to criticize.

Edited by: Phillip Woon on Apr 6, 2016 8:45 PM
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 6:33 AM   in response to: Phillip Woon in response to: Phillip Woon
Phillip Woon wrote:

Whereto with Delphi / Embarcadero now??

Andrew

And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when
people have moved on and come back to criticize.

Actually, it doesn't amaze me.

They made the choice to abandon Delphi and now want to reassure
themselves that it was actually a good choice (even if, internally,
there is this little voice telling them it wasn't <g>). People who are
really happy with their choice won't feel the need to look back.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Small minds run in the same gutter."
-- Alfred E. Neuman
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 7:40 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Phillip Woon wrote:

Whereto with Delphi / Embarcadero now??

Andrew

And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when
people have moved on and come back to criticize.

Actually, it doesn't amaze me.

They made the choice to abandon Delphi and now want to reassure
themselves that it was actually a good choice (even if, internally,
there is this little voice telling them it wasn't <g>). People who are
really happy with their choice won't feel the need to look back.

It probably speaks to a certain amount of insecurity.

My favourite story about this is a previous Delphi developer (and very
good friend) insisting that I had to drop Delphi immediately and move
to SilverLight.

Still makes me chuckle...

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Michael Thuma

Posts: 104
Registered: 1/30/00
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 5:24 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
:)

Bruce McGee wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Phillip Woon wrote:

Whereto with Delphi / Embarcadero now??

Andrew

And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when
people have moved on and come back to criticize.

Actually, it doesn't amaze me.

They made the choice to abandon Delphi and now want to reassure
themselves that it was actually a good choice (even if, internally,
there is this little voice telling them it wasn't <g>). People who are
really happy with their choice won't feel the need to look back.

It probably speaks to a certain amount of insecurity.

My favourite story about this is a previous Delphi developer (and very
good friend) insisting that I had to drop Delphi immediately and move
to SilverLight.

Still makes me chuckle...

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software

--
Delphi Programming is fun. Hilarious.
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 8:39 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Actually, it doesn't amaze me.

where were you then when JAVA was the new monster in the room?

http://tinyurl.com/gmzezlg
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 11:59 PM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert Padilla wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Actually, it doesn't amaze me.

where were you then when JAVA was the new monster in the room?

http://tinyurl.com/gmzezlg

I have absolutely no idea how that relates to what is being discussed
here, sorry.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal."
-- Leo Tolstoy (1828-1910)
Robert Love

Posts: 155
Registered: 5/3/07
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 3:13 PM   in response to: Phillip Woon in response to: Phillip Woon
Phillip Woon wrote:
And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when people have moved on and come back to criticize.

Moving off a development tool is not something that happens quickly. If we decided to drop Delphi, I bet we would have 2+ years of development in a
new language before we truly were able to drop Delphi. People can't walk away from a language easily if they have a huge investment in that language.
Expecting them to walk away from a community over a language they have had a huge investment in is ridiculous.
Phillip Woon

Posts: 189
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 8:54 AM   in response to: Robert Love in response to: Robert Love
Robert Love wrote:
Phillip Woon wrote:
And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when people have moved on and come back to criticize.

Moving off a development tool is not something that happens quickly. If we decided to drop Delphi, I bet we would have 2+ years of development in a
new language before we truly were able to drop Delphi. People can't walk away from a language easily if they have a huge investment in that language.
Expecting them to walk away from a community over a language they have had a huge investment in is ridiculous.

I expect them to walk away if they hate it.
Stefan Glienke

Posts: 601
Registered: 1/5/09
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 5:59 AM   in response to: Phillip Woon in response to: Phillip Woon
Phillip Woon wrote:
Andrew Baylis wrote:
I am amazed by how little code is actually required to get very powerful
applications (compared to Delphi). Data Bindings work well, the Task
Parallel library is a breeze to use and the various language features
such as LINQ streamline so much!

And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when people have moved on and come back to criticize.

It always amazes me how many Delphi developers always go into self defense mode whenever
someone has valid points where Delphi is way behind other languages instead of analyzing
these shortcoming and working on improving them. I think this process is called evolution.
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 6:05 AM   in response to: Stefan Glienke in response to: Stefan Glienke
Stefan Glienke wrote:

Phillip Woon wrote:
Andrew Baylis wrote:
I am amazed by how little code is actually required to get very
powerful applications (compared to Delphi). Data Bindings work
well, the Task Parallel library is a breeze to use and the
various language features such as LINQ streamline so much!

And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when
people have moved on and come back to criticize.

It always amazes me how many Delphi developers always go into self
defense mode whenever someone has valid points where Delphi is way
behind other languages instead of analyzing these shortcoming and
working on improving them. I think this process is called evolution.

Philip might have been a little quick on the draw here, but it's hard
to blame him.

Don't be so touchy.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 6:12 AM   in response to: Stefan Glienke in response to: Stefan Glienke
Stefan Glienke wrote:

I think this process is called evolution.

And yes, I'm a fan of evolution.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 7:28 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Stefan Glienke wrote:

I think this process is called evolution.

And yes, I'm a fan of evolution.

I am even the product of evolution, and so are you. <g>

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Fashion is something barbarous, for it produces innovation
without reason and imitation without benefit."
-- George Santayana
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 8:11 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
I am even the product of evolution, and so are you. <g>

Nah! we are all God's creation
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 8:47 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert Padilla wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
I am even the product of evolution, and so are you. <g>

Nah! we are all God's creation

Even then, we could be through evolution, right?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"I do not read advertisements. I would spend all of my time
wanting things."
-- Franz Kafka
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 6:40 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Gilbert Padilla wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
I am even the product of evolution, and so are you. <g>

Nah! we are all God's creation

Even then, we could be through evolution, right?

Of course.

Dan
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 7:02 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis wrote in message:

Even then, we could be through evolution, right?

That's what Pope Francis says
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 12:33 PM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert Padilla wrote:

Rudy Velthuis wrote in message:

Even then, we could be through evolution, right?

That's what Pope Francis says

So I am in good company. <g>

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"To date, despite the efforts of millions of true believers to
support this myth, there is no more evidence for the
Judeo-Christian god than any of the gods on Mount Olympus."
-- Joseph Daleiden
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 10:53 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert,

| | I am even the product of evolution, and so are you. <g>
|
| Nah! we are all God's creation

Naw, there is no "God." "God" is a human invention.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-10 10:52:38
Ge Ph

Posts: 14
Registered: 10/5/06
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 2:07 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:
Gilbert,

| | I am even the product of evolution, and so are you. <g>
|
| Nah! we are all God's creation

Naw, there is no "God." "God" is a human invention.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-10 10:52:38

Indeed. Now load up your development environment, start a new project and begin to haphazardly press keys on your keyboard for any defined period of time of your choosing. Even better, for the full effect, completely remove yourself and your intelligence from the process, so that even the haphazard nature of you having any control over the input is eliminated. Just sit and stare. How long would it take for your next meaningful program to be "created"?
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 3:49 PM   in response to: Ge Ph in response to: Ge Ph
Ge,

| Now load up your development environment, start a new project and
| begin to haphazardly press keys on your keyboard for any defined
| period of time of your choosing. Even better, for the full effect,
| completely remove yourself and your intelligence from the process, so
| that even the haphazard nature of you having any control over the
| input is eliminated. Just sit and stare. How long would it take for
| your next meaningful program to be "created"?

I have no idea what that has to do with there being no God or gods.
(???)

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-10 15:48:53
Kai Inge Buseth

Posts: 86
Registered: 6/5/08
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 12:23 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Ge,

Now load up your development environment, start a new project and
begin to haphazardly press keys on your keyboard for any defined
period of time of your choosing. Even better, for the full effect,
completely remove yourself and your intelligence from the process,
so that even the haphazard nature of you having any control over
the input is eliminated. Just sit and stare. How long would it
take for your next meaningful program to be "created"?

I have no idea what that has to do with there being no God or gods.
(???)

Quentin, that should be obvious for a developer. :-)
I don't believe in the religions, nor their God's - just as you say.
Their function is merely a tool for controlling the masses
and are designed as such, by humans and long time ago.

BUT - and this is a big issue: The nature's order, laws and the Higgs
particle's exsistence, suggests that the whole shebang
is developed by a force with logic and highly knowledge of beauty and
what will function or not. (As you, when developing your programs :-)
This force, or energy, also has to be active in the universe all the
time to get things to happen by the nature laws and move things around
in micro and macro cosmos.
(As the electrisity does in your PC, to get your programs performed.)

Now the point:
The chance of getting our universe as a result of random happenings in
nowhere, is just as likely as
you getting a functional program as a result of doing what was
suggested by Ge.

:)
Kai Inge
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 4:43 PM   in response to: Kai Inge Buseth in response to: Kai Inge Buseth
Kai,

| BUT - and this is a big issue: The nature's order, laws and the Higgs
| particle's exsistence, suggests that the whole shebang
| is developed by a force with logic and highly knowledge of beauty and
| what will function or not.

BUT - Where did that "force" come from?

I am a believer in what I call the "All." However, I admit to not
having a clue how the All came to be.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-12 16:38:44
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 5:00 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
On 4/12/2016 4:43 PM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Kai,

| BUT - and this is a big issue: The nature's order, laws and the Higgs
| particle's exsistence, suggests that the whole shebang
| is developed by a force with logic and highly knowledge of beauty and
| what will function or not.

BUT - Where did that "force" come from?

I am a believer in what I call the "All." However, I admit to not
having a clue how the All came to be.

I thought you, of all people, would believe the 'Star Trek Next
Generation' version... That is, the all-powerful being is 'Q'... <G>

David Erbas-White
david hoke

Posts: 616
Registered: 2/9/07
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 5:28 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

I thought you, of all people, would believe the 'Star Trek Next
Generation' version... That is, the all-powerful being is 'Q'... <G>

Hmm - my recollection is that 'Q' was sort of 'adopted', and if not
that, he was at the last certainly capable of being stripped of his
power (and clothing) by a similarly, or more, powerful collective...
david hoke

Posts: 616
Registered: 2/9/07
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 5:37 AM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:

David Erbas-White wrote:

I thought you, of all people, would believe the 'Star Trek Next
Generation' version... That is, the all-powerful being is 'Q'...
<G>

Hmm - my recollection is that 'Q' was sort of 'adopted', and if not
that, he was at the last certainly capable of being stripped of his
power (and clothing) by a similarly, or more, powerful collective...

And did you not consider that dude they left dancing with an exact
reproduction of his deceased wife on a planet, with instructions to the
federation at large to never mess with the planet - you know, that one
that simply 'thought' and eliminated an entire something (genus? race?)
of beings...
Mark Jacobs


Posts: 21
Registered: 11/21/03
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2016 6:15 AM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:
david hoke wrote:
And did you not consider that dude they left dancing with an exact
reproduction of his deceased wife on a planet, with instructions to the
federation at large to never mess with the planet - you know, that one
that simply 'thought' and eliminated an entire something (genus? race?)
of beings...

From [Wikipedia|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Survivors_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)] , "Kevin reveals that he is a Douwd, an immortal energy being with vast powers."
Humans have that kind of power (whatever you will into existence is real), but they are scared off by it. So, they skulk in the shadows, reassuring themselves with fairy tales that they've somehow been "disabled".
--
Mark Jacobs
http://www.critical.co.uk
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 5:54 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

On 4/12/2016 4:43 PM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Kai,

BUT - and this is a big issue: The nature's order, laws and the
Higgs particle's exsistence, suggests that the whole shebang
is developed by a force with logic and highly knowledge of
beauty and what will function or not.

BUT - Where did that "force" come from?

I am a believer in what I call the "All." However, I admit to not
having a clue how the All came to be.

I thought you, of all people, would believe the 'Star Trek Next
Generation' version... That is, the all-powerful being is 'Q'... <G>

IIRC, Q was just a rather potent being, and not the only one.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted."
-- Groucho Marx
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 4:07 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| IIRC, Q was just a rather potent being, and not the only one.

Yes. He was just a member of "The Q Collective."

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-13 16:06:34
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 4:05 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David,

| I thought you, of all people, would believe the 'Star Trek Next
| Generation' version... That is, the all-powerful being is 'Q'... <G>

LOL!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-13 16:05:29
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 5:54 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

I am a believer in what I call the "All." However, I admit to not
having a clue how the All came to be.

He escaped from a Paul Simon song, probably. <g>

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"#3 pencils and quadrille pads."
-- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used
to design the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using
the back side of the pages so that the lines were not so
dominant.
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 4:07 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| | I am a believer in what I call the "All." However, I admit to not
| | having a clue how the All came to be.

| He escaped from a Paul Simon song, probably. <g>

LOL!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-13 16:07:11
Kai Inge Buseth

Posts: 86
Registered: 6/5/08
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 14, 2016 10:46 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Kai,

BUT - and this is a big issue: The nature's order, laws and the
Higgs particle's exsistence, suggests that the whole shebang
is developed by a force with logic and highly knowledge of beauty
and what will function or not.

BUT - Where did that "force" come from?

I am a believer in what I call the "All." However, I admit to not
having a clue how the All came to be.

Your question is mindblowing and I'm glad I don't have to know this,
to benefit from the fact that some force took the effort to create the
universe.

Just as I don't have to know what's behind Delphi's curtains to benefit
from it's force. :-)

:)
Kai Inge
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 3:03 AM   in response to: Kai Inge Buseth in response to: Kai Inge Buseth
Kai Inge Buseth wrote:
The nature's order, laws and the Higgs
particle's exsistence, suggests that the whole shebang
is developed by a force with logic and highly knowledge of beauty and
what will function or not.

You're talking about the "fine-tuned Universe" and there are quite a
number of explanations for its existence, outside of extra-universal
aliens. One is the Multiverse theory, in which there are countless
other universes with different physical constants, ours being one that
favored our current physical laws, by chance. Then Stephen Hawking has
an anthropic explanation for it all, also not involving any intelligent
force. Don't ask me to explain it.

Personally, being an SF fan, I'd have nothing against industrious
aliens, of course. :)
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 7:06 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

|Gilbert,

| | I am even the product of evolution, and so are you. <g>

| Nah! we are all God's creation

Naw, there is no "God." "God" is a human invention.

Prove it! :-D
Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 556
Registered: 10/14/04
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 9:43 PM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Prove it! :-D
you can't

here is something to ponder though
if god created all creatures great and small...-> animals do not believe in God..and do not prey, etc...so does that mean there are no animals in heaven?
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:57 AM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
Brian,

| ... so does that mean there are no animals in heaven?

Uhhh,... and just what makes you think there is a heaven?

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-11 11:57:16
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 12:29 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
On 4/11/2016 11:57 AM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Brian,

| ... so does that mean there are no animals in heaven?

Uhhh,... and just what makes you think there is a heaven?

Because it's well known that all dogs GO to heaven... <G>

David (dog lover) Erbas-White
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 4:48 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

On 4/11/2016 11:57 AM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Brian,

... so does that mean there are no animals in heaven?

Uhhh,... and just what makes you think there is a heaven?

Because it's well known that all dogs GO to heaven... <G>

David (dog lover) Erbas-White

One friend has a tag that reads: If dogs don't go to heaven, I want to
go where my dog goes.
Christopher Burke

Posts: 580
Registered: 9/25/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 10:23 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:


One friend has a tag that reads: If dogs don't go to heaven, I want to
go where my dog goes.

But, do you believe in dog ?
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 12:12 AM   in response to: Christopher Burke in response to: Christopher Burke
Christopher Burke wrote:

Dan Barclay wrote:


One friend has a tag that reads: If dogs don't go to heaven, I want
to go where my dog goes.

But, do you believe in dog ?

You must be lysdexic.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 11:24 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| You must be lysdexic.

<chuckle>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-12 11:23:40
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 12:11 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:

David Erbas-White wrote:

On 4/11/2016 11:57 AM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Brian,

... so does that mean there are no animals in heaven?

Uhhh,... and just what makes you think there is a heaven?

Because it's well known that all dogs GO to heaven... <G>

David (dog lover) Erbas-White

One friend has a tag that reads: If dogs don't go to heaven, I want to
go where my dog goes.

That has something soylent greeny to it. <g>

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"The best programmers are not marginally better than merely
good ones. They are an order-of-magnitude better, measured by
whatever standard: conceptual creativity, speed, ingenuity of
design, or problem-solving ability.”
-- Randall E. Stross

"If McDonalds were run like a software company, one out of
every hundred Big Macs would give you food poisoning, and the
response would be, ‘We’re sorry, here’s a coupon for two more."
-- Mark Minasi
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 11:29 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| | One friend has a tag that reads: If dogs don't go to heaven, I
| | want to go where my dog goes.

| That has something soylent greeny to it. <g>

Ooo... that's an oldie! About 1973 if my memory serves me right.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-12 11:27:30
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 5:17 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David,

| | Uhhh,... and just what makes you think there is a heaven?
| |

| Because it's well known that all dogs GO to heaven... <G>

Uhhh,... Down boy!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-11 17:16:53
Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 556
Registered: 10/14/04
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 3:56 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Uhhh,... and just what makes you think there is a heaven?

personally I think once you are dead, that's it
but I have no problem is people believing you go to heaven

back on topic
you guys seen this?
https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bridges/desktop
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 5:21 PM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
Brian,

| back on topic you guys seen this?
| https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bridges/desktop

I had never before heard of UWP until I looked at that link!
WTF???????

Thanks for the link/info!

--

Q -- <Running Screaming Into the Night...>
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 8:52 PM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 11:35 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert,

| Gamers are worry about UWP
|

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/04/microsoft-monopolise-pc-games-development-epic-games-gears-of-war

I think EVERYONE should be worried about UWP!!!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-12 11:34:38
Kim Madsen

Posts: 362
Registered: 12/13/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 3:51 PM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
Den 4/12/2016 kl. 00:56 skrev Brian Hamilton Hamilton:
Uhhh,... and just what makes you think there is a heaven?

personally I think once you are dead, that's it
but I have no problem is people believing you go to heaven

Nahh... Ive just seen how it goes.... So stay alive for as long as
possible, is my motto :)

http://www.syfy.com/znation

best regards
Kim/C4D

Van Swofford

Posts: 397
Registered: 6/28/03
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 8:32 AM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
Brian Hamilton Hamilton wrote:

Prove it! :-D
you can't

here is something to ponder though
if god created all creatures great and small...-> animals do not
believe in God..and do not prey, etc...so does that mean there are no
animals in heaven?

I think animals do prey, they just don't pray. :-)

--
Cheers,
Van

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment." - Will Rogers
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:56 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert,

| | | Naw, there is no "God." "God" is a human invention.
|
| Prove it! :-D

Prove there is a God. :-D

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-11 11:55:38
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 5:10 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Gilbert,

| | Naw, there is no "God." "God" is a human invention.

Prove it! :-D

Prove there is a God. :-D

Putting all this in perspective, there either is or there is not.

Our individual beliefs don't (and can't) change fact. Since there is
no proof, there is only belief.

There are perfectly good songs written about this delima:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu7XWgczC7o

"I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell...
But I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell"

Dan
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 11:37 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan,

| > > | | Naw, there is no "God." "God" is a human invention.
| | >
| | > Prove it! :-D
| |
| | Prove there is a God. :-D
|
| Putting all this in perspective, there either is or there is not.
|
| Our individual beliefs don't (and can't) change fact. Since there is
| no proof, there is only belief.

Well,... there COULD be proof but we haven't [yet] discovered it. ;-)

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-12 11:36:19

Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 12, 2016 3:37 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Dan,

| > > | | Naw, there is no "God." "God" is a human invention.
| | >
  > Prove it! :-D


| Prove there is a God. :-D

Putting all this in perspective, there either is or there is not.

Our individual beliefs don't (and can't) change fact. Since there
is no proof, there is only belief.

Well,... there COULD be proof but we haven't [yet] discovered it.
;-)

Prove it.

Dan
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 4:09 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan,

| | Well,... there COULD be proof but we haven't [yet] discovered it.
| | ;-)

| Prove it.

:-P

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-13 16:08:28
Van Swofford

Posts: 397
Registered: 6/28/03
Re: Now what? [Edit]
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 8:36 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Dan,

| > > | | Naw, there is no "God." "God" is a human invention.
| | >
  > Prove it! :-D


| Prove there is a God. :-D

Putting all this in perspective, there either is or there is not.

Our individual beliefs don't (and can't) change fact. Since there
is no proof, there is only belief.

Well,... there COULD be proof but we haven't [yet] discovered it.
;-)

My thinking is that the proof would lie in answering two questions. 1.
Where did the mass that exploded in the Big Bang come from? and 2. What
was the source of the energy that made it go bang? Both of which would
require being able to see beyond the Big Bang, which I suspect will
never happen. Thus, I don't expect there to be a proof forthcoming.

--
Cheers,
Van

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment." - Will Rogers
Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 556
Registered: 10/14/04
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 11:23 AM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
My thinking is that the proof would lie in answering two questions. 1.
Where did the mass that exploded in the Big Bang come from? and 2. What
was the source of the energy that made it go bang? Both of which would
require being able to see beyond the Big Bang, which I suspect will
never happen. Thus, I don't expect there to be a proof forthcoming.

it could be:
the big band was the result of a previous universe that had stopped expanding after its big bang, and so collapsed in on itself, to form a massive black hole
and that process like resets everything...down to the simplest matter...and energy..from which stars (which create heavier materials) can form (we ourselves are born from the stars)

but I guess that still does not explain what came first and why/how

and there could in fact be other expanding universes beyond our one....

Edited by: Brian Hamilton Hamilton on Apr 13, 2016 11:24 AM

David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: Now what? [Edit] [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 12:31 PM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
On 4/13/2016 11:24 AM, Brian Hamilton Hamilton wrote:
My thinking is that the proof would lie in answering two questions. 1.
Where did the mass that exploded in the Big Bang come from? and 2. What
was the source of the energy that made it go bang? Both of which would
require being able to see beyond the Big Bang, which I suspect will
never happen. Thus, I don't expect there to be a proof forthcoming.

it could be:
the big band was the result of a previous universe that had stopped expanding after its big bang


Are we speaking of Glenn Miller or Count Basie??? <G>

David Erbas-White
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Now what? [Edit] [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 4:14 PM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
Brian,

Operative words there are "could be."

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-13 16:13:52
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what? [Edit]
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 12:23 PM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
Van Swofford wrote:
Quentin Correll wrote:

Dan,

| > > | | Naw, there is no "God." "God" is a human invention.
| | >
  > Prove it! :-D


| Prove there is a God. :-D

Putting all this in perspective, there either is or there is not.

Our individual beliefs don't (and can't) change fact. Since there
is no proof, there is only belief.

Well,... there COULD be proof but we haven't [yet] discovered it.
;-)

My thinking is that the proof would lie in answering two questions. 1.
Where did the mass that exploded in the Big Bang come from? and 2. What
was the source of the energy that made it go bang? Both of which would
require being able to see beyond the Big Bang, which I suspect will
never happen. Thus, I don't expect there to be a proof forthcoming.

[edit].. the quote marking thing seems not to be working on the web view. Above last quote from Van S

There are more questions than that:
... What was going on 3 seconds before the bang?
... Exactly where was that?
... When was that? (to those who say time didn't exist)

I've got all sorts of answers from those questions (time started then, and it's a loop, you're overthinkin', etc).

In answer to your mass question, the answer I've been given is "it was energy" (note: ignoring the "where did it come from" part)

"From didn't exist to did... kinda sounds creative". It's an interesting theory, as most are.

There are a lot of beliefs out there.

Dan

Edited by: Dan Barclay on Apr 13, 2016 2:24 PM
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 13, 2016 4:13 PM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
Van,

| 1. Where did the mass that exploded in the Big Bang come from?

You don't even know IF it was a mass that exploded!!! At this point
we just THINK it was a mass that exploded.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-13 16:09:38

Van Swofford

Posts: 397
Registered: 6/28/03
Re: Now what? [Edit]
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 15, 2016 9:30 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Van,

1. Where did the mass that exploded in the Big Bang come from?

You don't even know IF it was a mass that exploded!!! At this point
we just THINK it was a mass that exploded.

See what I mean? Even the questions can't really be defined, so the
answers are definitely difficult if not impossible to come by.

--
Cheers,
Van

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment." - Will Rogers
John Furlong

Posts: 96
Registered: 5/25/98
Re: Now what? [Edit]
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 15, 2016 10:00 AM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
On 15-Apr-16 12:30 PM, Van Swofford wrote:
Quentin Correll wrote:

Van,

1. Where did the mass that exploded in the Big Bang come from?

You don't even know IF it was a mass that exploded!!! At this point
we just THINK it was a mass that exploded.

See what I mean? Even the questions can't really be defined, so the
answers are definitely difficult if not impossible to come by.
FWIW I found "A Universe From Nothing" by Lawrence Krauss to be an
interesting read.

J.
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 15, 2016 10:57 AM   in response to: John Furlong in response to: John Furlong
John,

| FWIW I found "A Universe From Nothing" by Lawrence Krauss to be an
| interesting read.

Thanks. I plan on taking a look too!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-15 10:57:02
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Now what? [Edit]
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 15, 2016 10:42 AM   in response to: Van Swofford in response to: Van Swofford
Van,

| | > 1. Where did the mass that exploded in the Big Bang come from?
| |
| | You don't even know IF it was a mass that exploded!!! At this
| | point we just THINK it was a mass that exploded.

| See what I mean? Even the questions can't really be defined, so the
| answers are definitely difficult if not impossible to come by.


Yep. Get no argument out of me. <g>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-15 10:41:49
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 7:27 AM   in response to: Stefan Glienke in response to: Stefan Glienke
Stefan Glienke wrote:

And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when
people have moved on and come back to criticize.

It always amazes me how many Delphi developers always go into self
defense mode whenever someone has valid points where Delphi is way
behind other languages

Delphi is is some respects behind other languages, indeed. But c'est le
ton qui fait la musique. You can utter criticism, or you can simply
"bash" Delphi. The reaction is probably different, especially on these
groups.

If people come back to criticize, it is generally perceived as bashing,
not as genuine criticism.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"I hear Glenn Hoddle has found God. That must have been one hell
of a pass." -- Bob Davies.
Phillip Woon

Posts: 189
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 11:20 PM   in response to: Stefan Glienke in response to: Stefan Glienke
Stefan Glienke wrote:
Phillip Woon wrote:
Andrew Baylis wrote:
I am amazed by how little code is actually required to get very powerful
applications (compared to Delphi). Data Bindings work well, the Task
Parallel library is a breeze to use and the various language features
such as LINQ streamline so much!

And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when people have moved on and come back to criticize.

It always amazes me how many Delphi developers always go into self defense mode whenever
someone has valid points where Delphi is way behind other languages instead of analyzing
these shortcoming and working on improving them. I think this process is called evolution.

However, he mentions how little code is required to get powerful applications with other languages. Ok, I'll bite. We have a vendor doing some C# code for our web application. Is it just me, or is there way too much code , so many moving parts?

It's not necessarily self defense mode, but this looks like bashing delphi and not constructive criticism. I find NO shortcomings in the language myself. Yes, I use C# too, and there are things that ARE easier in Delphi.
Phillip Woon

Posts: 189
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Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 11:23 PM   in response to: Stefan Glienke in response to: Stefan Glienke
Stefan Glienke wrote:
Phillip Woon wrote:
Andrew Baylis wrote:
I am amazed by how little code is actually required to get very powerful
applications (compared to Delphi). Data Bindings work well, the Task
Parallel library is a breeze to use and the various language features
such as LINQ streamline so much!

And yet you're on a Delphi forum? It never ceases to amaze me when people have moved on and come back to criticize.

It always amazes me how many Delphi developers always go into self defense mode whenever
someone has valid points where Delphi is way behind other languages instead of analyzing
these shortcoming and working on improving them. I think this process is called evolution.

Way behind? This coming from an MVP of the year?
Stefan Glienke

Posts: 601
Registered: 1/5/09
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 11:55 PM   in response to: Phillip Woon in response to: Phillip Woon
Phillip Woon wrote:
Way behind? This coming from an MVP of the year?

That title did not came with rose-coloured glasses - so I do realize that there are shortcomings of the language
in some areas and I pointed them out in several places (and people at Embarcadero know about it)
And a big part of the work I do addresses these things - but I can only write library code and not extend the language itself to integrate these things.

Keep in mind we are just talking (and the original complaints were) about the language itself,
not about the IDE, the runtime and all the other great things about Delphi.
And again saying there are areas where it falls behind does not mean that it has features that many other languages don't have.

Saying you are doing C# does not mean that you actually use all features it provides.
Using LINQ, Lambdas and async/await just to name a few can produce so short and clear code that requires a ton of boilerplate code
in Delphi (yes, you can achieve the same, but that was not the point - it is about the code that you don't have to write).

There are numerous other things in other languages (I can mostly compare with C# because that
is what I used most and actually ported some libraries written in C# to Delphi) that can make source code
more expressive and reduce the ceremony so it only contains the essence about what you want to achieve
and less about how because that is what the language/compiler does for you.

Not realizing where Delphi falls short (I focus mostly on the language itself because that is what I do most, write library code)
imo is the worst thing you can do if you love Delphi because it means there won't be any improvement.

You might want to watch this session about Scala (you can understand it without much knowledge about it)
where he talks about how Scala does things better than Java and how it's about "essence vs ceremony":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grvvKURwGNg (and it's quite entertaining)
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 6:30 AM   in response to: Andrew Baylis in response to: Andrew Baylis
Andrew Baylis wrote:

Whereto with Delphi / Embarcadero now??

Andrew

Yeah, what will happen with Delphi now you endorsed other candidates?

Will Delphi die? ;-)


FWIW, people have been saying Delphi will die since, well, 14 Feb 1995.
<g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Well-timed silence hath more eloquence than speech."
- Martin Fraquhar Tupper

Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 5:26 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| FWIW, people have been saying Delphi will die since, well, 14 Feb
| 1995. <g>

Wasn't that Delphi's original release date? ;-)

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-07 17:26:14
Bruce McGee

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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 2:59 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

FWIW, people have been saying Delphi will die since, well, 14 Feb
| 1995. <g>

Wasn't that Delphi's original release date? ;-)

Yes.

They haven't been right yet.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 11:08 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce,

| | Wasn't that Delphi's original release date? ;-)
|
| Yes.
|
| They haven't been right yet.

<g>

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-08 11:08:25
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 3:38 AM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

FWIW, people have been saying Delphi will die since, well, 14 Feb
1995. <g>

Wasn't that Delphi's original release date? ;-)

Indeed, indeed.

Well, one could argue that the main cause of people dying is that they
were born, so why not the same for Delphi? <g>

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just
cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring
about a change."
-- Malcolm X
Markus Humm

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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 8:17 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Am 08.04.2016 um 12:38 schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):
Quentin Correll wrote:

Rudy,

FWIW, people have been saying Delphi will die since, well, 14 Feb
1995. <g>

Wasn't that Delphi's original release date? ;-)

Indeed, indeed.

Well, one could argue that the main cause of people dying is that they
were born, so why not the same for Delphi? <g>

Because it's not a biological being?
It's "only" bits and bytes?

Greetings

Markus
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 7:24 AM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Markus Humm wrote:

Well, one could argue that the main cause of people dying is that
they were born, so why not the same for Delphi? <g>

Because it's not a biological being?

D'uh!

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

Harp's Corollary To Estridge's Law: Your "IBM PC-compatible"
computer grows more incompatible with every passing moment.

Quentin Correll


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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 11:08 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| Well, one could argue that the main cause of people dying is that they
| were born, so why not the same for Delphi? <g>

;-)

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-08 11:08:48
Dalija Prasnikar

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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 3:48 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Andrew Baylis wrote:

Whereto with Delphi / Embarcadero now??

Andrew

Yeah, what will happen with Delphi now you endorsed other candidates?

Will Delphi die? ;-)

Nope.

But Delphi does not exist in vacuum. Everything mentioned here will have
some influence. How much nobody can predict.

Pretending that anything that is happening outside Delphi realm does not
matter at all is having bad case of ostrich effect.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Phillip Woon

Posts: 189
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 6:35 AM   in response to: Andrew Baylis in response to: Andrew Baylis
Andrew Baylis wrote:
On 7/04/2016 6:08 AM, Clement Doss wrote:
https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and Windows."

Clément
Also, the following makes a very powerful FREE suite for developing
Windows and cross platform applications:

Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition
(https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-community-vs.aspx)

Syncfusion Community Edition (http://www.syncfusion.com/) - heaps of UI
tools!

If I were to ever leave Delphi, I would never come back here to badmouth it. Is it because you realize it is the BEST tool. Let it go, nothing to see here


Xamarin for Visual Studio (https://www.xamarin.com/visual-studio)

If you are still wedded to Pascal, RemObjects Oxygene is a reasonably
cheap addition (and far cheaper than Delphi). However, I have just spent
a month learning C# (having programmed in Pascal since Borland Turbo
Pascal was first released) and am amazed by how little code is actually
required to get very powerful applications (compared to Delphi). Data
Bindings work well, the Task Parallel library is a breeze to use and the
various language features such as LINQ streamline so much!

Whereto with Delphi / Embarcadero now??

Andrew
Bruce McGee

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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 7:33 AM   in response to: Phillip Woon in response to: Phillip Woon
Phillip Woon wrote:

If I were to ever leave Delphi, I would never come back here to
badmouth it.

If it's important for someone to constantly trash something, that
probably says more about them than the thing they are so bitter about.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Markus Humm

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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 10:28 AM   in response to: Andrew Baylis in response to: Andrew Baylis
Am 07.04.2016 um 01:24 schrieb Andrew Baylis:
On 7/04/2016 6:08 AM, Clement Doss wrote:
https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and Windows."

Clément
Also, the following makes a very powerful FREE suite for developing
Windows and cross platform applications:

Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition
(https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-community-vs.aspx)

Syncfusion Community Edition (http://www.syncfusion.com/) - heaps of UI
tools!

Xamarin for Visual Studio (https://www.xamarin.com/visual-studio)

If you are still wedded to Pascal, RemObjects Oxygene is a reasonably
cheap addition (and far cheaper than Delphi). However, I have just spent
a month learning C# (having programmed in Pascal since Borland Turbo
Pascal was first released) and am amazed by how little code is actually
required to get very powerful applications (compared to Delphi). Data
Bindings work well, the Task Parallel library is a breeze to use and the
various language features such as LINQ streamline so much!

Whereto with Delphi / Embarcadero now??

Hm, how often did MS change the GUI libraries now?
MFC, WinForms, WPF, XAML, whatelse?

Greetings

Markus
Soeren Muehlbauer

Posts: 26
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 2:53 AM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Hi,

Hm, how often did MS change the GUI libraries now?
MFC, WinForms, WPF, XAML, whatelse?

MFC is C++. WinForms is .NET as WPF too.
So under the .NET platform you have currently 3 different GUI libraries
(WinForms/WPF/UWP). You have the old WinForms which are wrapper around
windows controls. And you have XAML style GUI. WPF and also Universal
Windows Apps are using XAML.

Delphi also has two different GUI frameworks. VCL and FMX.

I think you are mixing different development platforms (C++) and GUI
frameworks.

Soeren
Markus Humm

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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 8:19 AM   in response to: Soeren Muehlbauer in response to: Soeren Muehlbauer
Am 08.04.2016 um 11:53 schrieb Soeren Muehlbauer:
Hi,

Hm, how often did MS change the GUI libraries now?
MFC, WinForms, WPF, XAML, whatelse?

MFC is C++. WinForms is .NET as WPF too.
So under the .NET platform you have currently 3 different GUI libraries
(WinForms/WPF/UWP). You have the old WinForms which are wrapper around
windows controls. And you have XAML style GUI. WPF and also Universal
Windows Apps are using XAML.

Delphi also has two different GUI frameworks. VCL and FMX.

Ok, but Delphi just has them because VCL is too tied to WinAPI.
But there qre a few technologies where MS changed course several times.
e.g. using ini files, then the registry, now XML based sort of ini files
or whatever...

Greetings

Markus
Soeren Muehlbauer

Posts: 26
Registered: 11/29/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:44 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Hi,

Ok, but Delphi just has them because VCL is too tied to WinAPI.
But there qre a few technologies where MS changed course several times.
e.g. using ini files, then the registry, now XML based sort of ini files
or whatever...

Nah, that is what i would call evolution. Nobody is perfect. And
furthermore you are free to use ini files if you want. MS does not force
you to use the registry or config files (xml,ini,...).

And even MS opens much of the framework. There are rumors that they will
also open source the wpf framework. WPF and the framework is very, very
powerful but has a steep learning curve. Once you get how it is working
(MVVM and so on) you can develop solutions very quick. My hope is that
ms ports wpf to all platforms where the dotnet framework currently runs
on (windows, iOS, android, linux).

The company i work is using delphi. After several version the product is
not stable enough compared to other tools. The debugger stops working
after 1-2 debug sessions. We cant build our compelete solution with
debug information because the ide runs out of memory (event D10Seattle).

Soeren
David Clegg

Posts: 90
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 8:33 PM   in response to: Andrew Baylis in response to: Andrew Baylis
Andrew Baylis wrote:


Xamarin for Visual Studio (https://www.xamarin.com/visual-studio)

If you are still wedded to Pascal, RemObjects Oxygene is a reasonably
cheap addition (and far cheaper than Delphi). However, I have just
spent a month learning C# (having programmed in Pascal since Borland
Turbo Pascal was first released) and am amazed by how little code is
actually required to get very powerful applications (compared to
Delphi). Data Bindings work well, the Task Parallel library is a
breeze to use and the various language features such as LINQ
streamline so much!

Whereto with Delphi / Embarcadero now??

I'm playing with Xamarin Studio at the moment. One glaring omission it
has when compared to Delphi is the lack of WYSIWYG designer when
creating cross-platform mobile apps.

You have a Storyboard designer when explicitly targeting iOS, and form
designer when explicity targeting Android. But when targeting
Xamarin.Forms (the cross-platform framework), controls have to be
created in code or expressed via XAML (with no in-built designer
support).

Although it is fun to be playing with C# again. May have to take John
Kaster's advice and take F# for a spin too. Variety is the spice of
life. :-)

--
Cheers,
David Clegg
https://www.twitter.com/delphijunkie

"It's not just a store - it's a Megastore! 'Mega' means 'good,' 'store'
means 'thing." - Homer Simpson
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 4:11 AM   in response to: David Clegg in response to: David Clegg
I'm playing with Xamarin Studio at the moment. One glaring omission it
has when compared to Delphi is the lack of WYSIWYG designer when
creating cross-platform mobile apps.

You have a Storyboard designer when explicitly targeting iOS, and form
designer when explicity targeting Android. But when targeting
Xamarin.Forms (the cross-platform framework), controls have to be
created in code or expressed via XAML (with no in-built designer
support).

IDK with a proper layout constraint system, its almost easier to just
code the interface in some declarative setup like XAML. I find the VCL
and XCode storyboard editors clumsy.

I've cured myself of TDateset and life is so much better now. RAD
development is fun and all but it limits what you can do and it makes
code harder to reuse and modify.

The real killer setup is what I described above but in a reactive UI
style which makes coding UIs even easier. Something like Aurelia is
about as good as it gets for building front ends.

Steve Jordi

Posts: 111
Registered: 4/19/98
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 6, 2016 10:29 PM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
Feel free to use whatever fits your needs.

Why do I stick to Delphi/C++Builder? Quality of code and language.

I'm in scientific software that needs fast calculus, therefore I do NOT
deal with poorly optimized solutions based on sluggish Java, .NET and
the likes.

I need something reliable, modern, and compiled down to the processor,
even for Android... no in-between crawling layers (Java API).

Delphi/C++Builder fit my needs.

Visual Studio, Xamarin, etc... may fit yours. It doesn't mean they're
best or worse.
What is worse is something out of your scope and needs.

There is nobody with a gun on your face forcing you to stick to Embarcadero.

--

Steve JORDI - MSc in Geophysics/Volcanology

Geneva, Switzerland / Portland, OR, USA
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 6:35 AM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
Clement Doss wrote:

https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free
and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and
Windows. "

Clément

Why the question? Unless it offers Delphi as a language, why would it
matter?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a
really easy way; stop participating in it."
-- Noam Chomsky
Stefan Glienke

Posts: 601
Registered: 1/5/09
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 5:49 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Clement Doss wrote:

https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free
and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and
Windows. "

Clément

Why the question? Unless it offers Delphi as a language, why would it
matter?

Just saying: http://www.omnipascal.com/#about
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 5:59 AM   in response to: Stefan Glienke in response to: Stefan Glienke
Stefan Glienke wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Clement Doss wrote:

https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free
and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and
Windows. "

Clément

Why the question? Unless it offers Delphi as a language, why would it
matter?

Just saying: http://www.omnipascal.com/#about

I prefer using Delphi IDE. Maybe if I would be using VS for anything I would
have different opinion. Right now even with its flaws Delphi IDE is still the best
and most enjoyable IDE I currently work with (Android Studio and Xcode).

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Michael Thuma

Posts: 104
Registered: 1/30/00
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 9:52 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
VS-Code is a more modern Eclipse light

I think it's simply false to assume that Delphi would be the new kid on the block. A product is simply here for those who use it. Comparisons are not helpful.

It's still a pleasure to code in VS or in VS Code. If we look into today's code totally independent if C#, C++ or other more modern languages - wondering what's next? The current designs found do still reflect the old idea of OO combined with design patterns, especially the interfaces. The next logical step is about even simplifying those architectures. Then we are back in the 4GL revisited world. 3GL cannot address everything.

The day will come and even one tool supplied by the vendor will do the job, exactly the moment a designer comes into play. All the areas to become addressed grew and will continue to grow further. GAME-IDEs ...

The next innovative thing will be VS-Emacs very likely :). I personally think VS does not matter anymore to Delphi developers and vice versa. It never did fore me personally. Those people who invest lot's of money into new software from scratch in the early days are rare.

What happend to Delphi before will happen to multi purpose environments that went beyond too but at a later point in time. Zombies don't care about how long they are dead as long as they wake up every year. The difference between a zombie at the age of 500 or 490 does not matter. It's a zombie or a happy mummy.

watch?v=XH7W60V4X2E

Mike

Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Stefan Glienke wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Clement Doss wrote:

https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free
and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and
Windows. "

Clément

Why the question? Unless it offers Delphi as a language, why would it
matter?

Just saying: http://www.omnipascal.com/#about

I prefer using Delphi IDE. Maybe if I would be using VS for anything I would
have different opinion. Right now even with its flaws Delphi IDE is still the best
and most enjoyable IDE I currently work with (Android Studio and Xcode).

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar

--
Delphi Programming is fun. Hilarious.
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 11:01 AM   in response to: Michael Thuma in response to: Michael Thuma
Michael Thuma wrote:
VS-Code is a more modern Eclipse light

I think it's simply false to assume that Delphi would be the new kid on the block. A product is simply here for those who use it. Comparisons are not helpful.

It's still a pleasure to code in VS or in VS Code. If we look into today's code totally independent if C#, C++ or other more modern languages - wondering what's next? The current designs found do still reflect the old idea of OO combined with design patterns, especially the interfaces. The next logical step is about even simplifying those architectures. Then we are back in the 4GL revisited world. 3GL cannot address everything.

The day will come and even one tool supplied by the vendor will do the job, exactly the moment a designer comes into play. All the areas to become addressed grew and will continue to grow further. GAME-IDEs ...

The next innovative thing will be VS-Emacs very likely :). I personally think VS does not matter anymore to Delphi developers and vice versa. It never did fore me personally. Those people who invest lot's of money into new software from scratch in the early days are rare.

What happend to Delphi before will happen to multi purpose environments that went beyond too but at a later point in time. Zombies don't care about how long they are dead as long as they wake up every year. The difference between a zombie at the age of 500 or 490 does not matter. It's a zombie or a happy mummy.


LOL

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Now what? [Edit]
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 7:31 AM   in response to: Stefan Glienke in response to: Stefan Glienke
Stefan Glienke wrote:

Why the question? Unless it offers Delphi as a language, why would
it matter?

Just saying: http://www.omnipascal.com/#about

Does it come with Visual Studio? I didn't know.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Statistics is like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive.
What they conceal is vital."
-- Arthur Koestler
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 7:18 AM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
Pull out the comparison chart, embrace open source...
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 7:30 AM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
Clement Doss wrote:

https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free
and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and
Windows. "

Now what?

Now maybe download it and tinker with it a little. I probably will, at
least eventually. It's on my "to look at" list along with their
community edition.

It's worth the effort just to expand your horizons and get a different
perspective. You might stumble on to a tool that does something you
need better than what you're using now. At the very least, you have a
better idea of what's available for future reference.

I'm especially interested in front end web tools. I've had a lot of
success with Adobe Brackets and the Chrome development tools, but this
kind of work keeps coming up, so I should probably take a closer look
at what's on offer today.

The right tool for a given job.

Same thing applies to development conferences and technical training. I
strongly recommend that developers make a point of attending something
on a regular basis. Even better if it's something that's outside of
their comfort zone.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
John Kouraklis

Posts: 209
Registered: 3/10/01
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 11:03 AM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
Ok guys, let's not be so sensitive.

It is always good to know what is happening out there.

A little bit of criticism (not rubbishing) is always a good thing...helps reinforcing thinking and re-evaluating arguments in the light of new information. :-)

After all, Clement and Andrew only shared their concerns and basically are asking to see how others feel about all these developments in the field. We should provide them with pros and cons about Delphi and not aphorisms.

In my view, these are very healthy discussions within communities in general.
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 11:46 AM   in response to: John Kouraklis in response to: John Kouraklis
John Kour wrote:

Ok guys, let's not be so sensitive.

For this? Agreed.

It is always good to know what is happening out there.

Agreed also. As I replied.

After all, Clement and Andrew only shared their concerns and
basically are asking to see how others feel about all these
developments in the field. We should provide them with pros and cons
about Delphi and not aphorisms.

Clement did.

Andrew threw in a back handed comment questioning the future of Delphi
and Embarcadero.

Given some of the trolls that pop up here every once in a while, you
could forgive people having a low tolerance for it.

In my view, these are very healthy discussions within communities in
general.

Constructive criticism is very healthy.

In addition to the discussion here, David I suggested some places where
constructive criticism is welcome:

http://community.embarcadero.com/blogs/entry/how-to-get-help-and-support-when-you-need-it-there-are-several-ways

And I posted some suggestions here a while ago. Some of these might be
dated, though:

https://forums.embarcadero.com/thread.jspa?messageID=673404&tstart=0#673404

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
John Kouraklis

Posts: 209
Registered: 3/10/01
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 12:27 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Given some of the trolls that pop up here every once in a while, you
could forgive people having a low tolerance for it.

Yes this is definitely understandable (noone offended anyone with the comments).

In addition to the discussion here, David I suggested some places where
constructive criticism is welcome:

http://community.embarcadero.com/blogs/entry/how-to-get-help-and-support-when-you-need-it-there-are-several-ways

And I posted some suggestions here a while ago. Some of these might be
dated, though:

https://forums.embarcadero.com/thread.jspa?messageID=673404&tstart=0#673404

This is great post about the ways to send messages and concerns to EMB.

However, I can't help myself commenting the view that this forum is for peer support only and we shouldn't discuss anything about the future of the products, our concerns, or any criticism we have. As other have pointed out, peer forums in every are of business are great source of help for companies. Think of a very common approach companies take when they are looking for ideas to improve products: they monitor peer forums like this. They can also get what they should NOT do.

If that was the case, it would never be acceptable to have threads like the "Half of EMB sacked"?
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 12:43 PM   in response to: John Kouraklis in response to: John Kouraklis
John Kour wrote:

However, I can't help myself commenting the view that this forum is
for peer support only and we shouldn't discuss anything about the
future of the products, our concerns, or any criticism we have.

This is absolutely not the case.

Constructive criticism is a good thing. Trolling is not. Andrew might
not have risen to the level of trolling, but any criticism he got was
self inflicted.

If that was the case, it would never be acceptable to have threads
like the "Half of EMB sacked"?

It isn't, but I don't (and shouldn't) have the authority to lock or
remove threads, even threads as screwed up as this one.

You want criticism? Moderators in this group and Embarcadero should be
embarrassed by that thread. I think it damages their brand and made
these groups unusable for a long time. Not that I have clean hands
since I posted in that thread as well.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 12:48 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

any criticism he got was
self inflicted.

Andrew also included a couple of good links.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 12:54 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
I think it damages their brand and made
these groups unusable for a long time.

No doubt it's a thread full of crazy monkeys, but how did it make these
groups unusable? What are you using to peruse these groups? An ASCII
dump?

About the brand damaging, get a grip on reality already.
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 1:12 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:

No doubt it's a thread full of crazy monkeys, but how did it make
these groups unusable?

Hundreds and hundreds of political messages in a Delphi forum?

Who wants to use that?

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 2:28 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Hundreds and hundreds of political messages in a Delphi forum?

Who wants to use that?

Yes, but how does it make these groups unusable? That's like saying
you're looking for one name in the phone book and the million others
just make it unusable.
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 2:32 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:
Hundreds and hundreds of political messages in a Delphi forum?

Who wants to use that?

Yes, but how does it make these groups unusable? That's like saying
you're looking for one name in the phone book and the million others
just make it unusable.

Less worth using might be a better description. Not the first of its
kind, just the most recent.

If I want long, drawn out political discussions with uninformed nut
jobs, I'd get together with a bunch of my family.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 2:36 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
If I want long, drawn out political discussions with uninformed nut
jobs, I'd get together with a bunch of my family.

LOL! Yes, but still, it's luckily just one single thread. It's not more
difficult to step over than a thread with one single message in it.
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 1:15 PM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:

get a grip on reality already.

Exactly my opinion of people who deliberately troll in Delphi forums
and message comments.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
John Kouraklis

Posts: 209
Registered: 3/10/01
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 2:36 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Dominique Willems wrote:

get a grip on reality already.

Exactly my opinion of people who deliberately troll in Delphi forums
and message comments.

--

Bruce, being pragmatic doesn't mean we troll in forums and being passionated about something doesn't mean you close your eyes to what is happening in the area of your interest.

This reminds me all those hardcore Apple's fans who never see any wrong doing of Apple and alway "troll" agains Microsoft.

Anyway, there is no point arguing about this here.

Edited by: John Kour on Apr 7, 2016 2:36 PM
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what? [Edit]
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 2:39 PM   in response to: John Kouraklis in response to: John Kouraklis
John Kour wrote:

Bruce, being pragmatic doesn't mean we troll in forums and being
passionated about something doesn't mean you close your eyes to what
is happening in the area of your interest.

Hanging out in Delphi forums and declaring it dead, however...

Hasn't happened in this thread.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 5:27 PM   in response to: John Kouraklis in response to: John Kouraklis
John,

Well said.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-07 17:27:48
Clement Doss

Posts: 133
Registered: 9/19/00
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 1:53 PM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
Hi,

I just wanted to point out that microsoft is "going places". A few years ago I always made jokes about microsoft multiplatform concept: multiplatform as long as it's a Windows.
They released SQL Server for linux.
This was unthinkable a few months ago (at least for me). Now they have competitives IDE in other platforms. And yes they are capable of running compatible Delphi and Free pascal! Native! Linux! OSX!

I'm just baffled. I need some time to digest all this.

MINI comes to my mind ( Microsoft Is Not mIcrosoft )

BTW I just renewed my subscription. I'll stick around, at least, for another year ;)

Clément
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 2:14 PM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
Clement Doss wrote:

Hi,

I just wanted to point out that microsoft is "going places". A few
years ago I always made jokes about microsoft multiplatform concept:
multiplatform as long as it's a Windows. They released SQL Server
for linux. This was unthinkable a few months ago (at least for me).
Now they have competitives IDE in other platforms. And yes they are
capable of running compatible Delphi and Free pascal! Native! Linux!
OSX!

Microsoft has a long history of trying to lock people in to their tools
and platforms. IE, .Net, limiting which tools can compile for Windows
8, etc.

It looks like they are trying something different.

I'm just baffled. I need some time to digest all this.

I'm being cautiously optimistic.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 7:23 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Clement Doss wrote:

Hi,

I just wanted to point out that microsoft is "going places". A few
years ago I always made jokes about microsoft multiplatform concept:
multiplatform as long as it's a Windows. They released SQL Server
for linux. This was unthinkable a few months ago (at least for me).
Now they have competitives IDE in other platforms. And yes they are
capable of running compatible Delphi and Free pascal! Native! Linux!
OSX!

Microsoft has a long history of trying to lock people in to their
tools and platforms. IE, .Net, limiting which tools can compile for
Windows 8, etc.

It looks like they are trying something different.

I'm just baffled. I need some time to digest all this.

I'm being cautiously optimistic.

Fifteen years ago I was heavily involved with MS (one of the first
MVP's, etc). I've always viewed their activity with respect to .NET as
implementing a layer that all apps would use, to some degree or other.
Their .Net uptake was drastically lower than they had expected, and
there are several reasons for that (which would take a lot more than a
few messages to discuss), but their strategy was to make .Net
essentially a requirement on every device and OS.

Whether it is .Net or a combination of technologies, their real
interest is in creating a toll road that you need to cross. When they
get a critical mass they put up toll booths. Think, as many said
internally "a buck a phone...". But they really wanted it on all
devices.

They have never built, or sold, developer tools with the intent of
having them as products in their own right. At least not since the
1980's. The objectives of their developer tools is to increase
dependency on (e.g. sell) their other products.

Or .Not
YMMV.
Etc.

If you follow their path, be very careful and make sure you have a
backup plan.

Dan
John Kouraklis

Posts: 209
Registered: 3/10/01
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 8:33 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:


They have never built, or sold, developer tools with the intent of
having them as products in their own right. At least not since the
1980's. The objectives of their developer tools is to increase
dependency on (e.g. sell) their other products.

I don't mean to defend MS in any way but isn't it what all commercial companies do? Apple these days builds similar strategies and they are even more brutal than MS back in the years of MS absolute dominance.

I know it may sound cynical but this is business (unfortunately sometimes).
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 9:52 PM   in response to: John Kouraklis in response to: John Kouraklis
John Kour wrote:

Dan Barclay wrote:


They have never built, or sold, developer tools with the intent of
having them as products in their own right. At least not since the
1980's. The objectives of their developer tools is to increase
dependency on (e.g. sell) their other products.

I don't mean to defend MS in any way but isn't it what all commercial
companies do? Apple these days builds similar strategies and they are
even more brutal than MS back in the years of MS absolute dominance.

I know it may sound cynical but this is business (unfortunately
sometimes).

I don't take it as attacking or defending. As you say, it's just the
way it is.

The difference most people may not realize (actually, most don't) is
that MS Developer Tools are not built with the tool as the product.

I say that most don't realize it because I was closely connected with a
ton of MS product users when I was MVP. It's been a while, but I'd be
willing to bet that most still believe that MS is in the developer
tools business. Their view is much more broad than that.

I'm just pointing that out. It does mean that you need to watch your
moves, and the dependencies you allow, as you move forward. If you
don't understand that, you are likely to get nailed.

Dan
John Kouraklis

Posts: 209
Registered: 3/10/01
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 7:08 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:
John Kour wrote:

Dan Barclay wrote:


They have never built, or sold, developer tools with the intent of
having them as products in their own right. At least not since the
1980's. The objectives of their developer tools is to increase
dependency on (e.g. sell) their other products.

I don't mean to defend MS in any way but isn't it what all commercial
companies do? Apple these days builds similar strategies and they are
even more brutal than MS back in the years of MS absolute dominance.

I know it may sound cynical but this is business (unfortunately
sometimes).

I don't take it as attacking or defending. As you say, it's just the
way it is.

The difference most people may not realize (actually, most don't) is
that MS Developer Tools are not built with the tool as the product.

I say that most don't realize it because I was closely connected with a
ton of MS product users when I was MVP. It's been a while, but I'd be
willing to bet that most still believe that MS is in the developer
tools business. Their view is much more broad than that.

I'm just pointing that out. It does mean that you need to watch your
moves, and the dependencies you allow, as you move forward. If you
don't understand that, you are likely to get nailed.

Dan

Yes you are right on this. But I believe MS never positioned the company as being in the development tool business. The tools have always been supportive to their products.

I see your point about what it means to us as developers and the cost it may bring. I just remembers FoxPro-- another super duper language that was supported for almost a decade and one day they dropped it.
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 9:42 AM   in response to: John Kouraklis in response to: John Kouraklis
John Kour wrote:

Dan Barclay wrote:
John Kour wrote:

Dan Barclay wrote:


They have never built, or sold, developer tools with the intent
of having them as products in their own right. At least not
since the 1980's. The objectives of their developer tools is
to increase dependency on (e.g. sell) their other products.

I don't mean to defend MS in any way but isn't it what all
commercial companies do? Apple these days builds similar
strategies and they are even more brutal than MS back in the
years of MS absolute dominance.

I know it may sound cynical but this is business (unfortunately
sometimes).

I don't take it as attacking or defending. As you say, it's just
the way it is.

The difference most people may not realize (actually, most don't) is
that MS Developer Tools are not built with the tool as the product.

I say that most don't realize it because I was closely connected
with a ton of MS product users when I was MVP. It's been a while,
but I'd be willing to bet that most still believe that MS is in the
developer tools business. Their view is much more broad than that.

I'm just pointing that out. It does mean that you need to watch
your moves, and the dependencies you allow, as you move forward.
If you don't understand that, you are likely to get nailed.

Dan

Yes you are right on this. But I believe MS never positioned the
company as being in the development tool business. The tools have
always been supportive to their products.

I see your point about what it means to us as developers and the cost
it may bring. I just remembers FoxPro-- another super duper language
that was supported for almost a decade and one day they dropped it.

The same is true for Visual Basic. They could have made that nearly
as great as Delphi. They, literally, replaced the entire development
team during the VB7 cycle... almost nobody with VB experience, and they
decided to "fix" the language. The first Beta release even changed the
way logical expressions evaluated... different results without even
throwing an error.

By their earlier estimates, many millions of developlers and billions
of lines of code. Code that could not (and has not) been migrated to
VB.Not.

http://vb.mvps.org/vfred/Trust.asp
http://vb.mvps.org/vfred/breaks.asp

https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2009/10/27/microsoft-vb6-support-strategy.aspx

This went as far as Balmer http://vb.mvps.org/tips/stability/
They decided to keep deadlines instead of fixing it. The changes they
needed to make were actually fairly easy. Dotnet IL provides for all
the things they needed, and it would have been very straightforward.

Regardless of what one thinks of VB, can you just imagine what the
uptake of .Net would have been if those billions of lines of
application code could easily have been moved to .Net?

Had VB been a product, with a profit center, they'd have paid a lot
more attention to what their users were going to do.

I left. Delphi is pretty much VB, plus some begin/end and ":"'s and
";"'s <shrug>

Dan
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 9:48 AM   in response to: John Kouraklis in response to: John Kouraklis
John Kour wrote:

Dan Barclay wrote:
John Kour wrote:

Dan Barclay wrote:


They have never built, or sold, developer tools with the intent
of having them as products in their own right. At least not
since the 1980's. The objectives of their developer tools is
to increase dependency on (e.g. sell) their other products.

I don't mean to defend MS in any way but isn't it what all
commercial companies do? Apple these days builds similar
strategies and they are even more brutal than MS back in the
years of MS absolute dominance.

I know it may sound cynical but this is business (unfortunately
sometimes).

I don't take it as attacking or defending. As you say, it's just
the way it is.

The difference most people may not realize (actually, most don't) is
that MS Developer Tools are not built with the tool as the product.

I say that most don't realize it because I was closely connected
with a ton of MS product users when I was MVP. It's been a while,
but I'd be willing to bet that most still believe that MS is in the
developer tools business. Their view is much more broad than that.

I'm just pointing that out. It does mean that you need to watch
your moves, and the dependencies you allow, as you move forward.
If you don't understand that, you are likely to get nailed.

Dan

Yes you are right on this. But I believe MS never positioned the
company as being in the development tool business. The tools have
always been supportive to their products.

Actually, in the early days, their developer tools were separate profit
centers. Their BASIC products (PDS in particular) were outstanding.
They had very good optimization, and used the same linker/overlay
manager as their C products.

That changed as they began to see the importance of applications, and
the leverage that developer tools (developers on board) brought to the
table.

Dan
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 4:15 AM   in response to: John Kouraklis in response to: John Kouraklis

I don't mean to defend MS in any way but isn't it what all commercial companies do? Apple these days builds similar strategies and they are even more brutal than MS back in the years of MS absolute dominance.

I know it may sound cynical but this is business (unfortunately sometimes).

As a consumer, I simply ask myself: "What is this company's product and
how do they make their money".

Apple: Hardware

Google: You

Facebook: You

Microsoft: Azure, Office, and starting with Windows 10: You

Everything else stems from that. I trust Apple way more than I trust
any of the other tech companies simply because you are their product.
John Kouraklis

Posts: 209
Registered: 3/10/01
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 7:12 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

I don't mean to defend MS in any way but isn't it what all commercial companies do? Apple these days builds similar strategies and they are even more brutal than MS back in the years of MS absolute dominance.

I know it may sound cynical but this is business (unfortunately sometimes).

As a consumer, I simply ask myself: "What is this company's product and
how do they make their money".

Apple: Hardware

And who pays for the hardware? You

Google: You

Facebook: You

Microsoft: Azure, Office, and starting with Windows 10: You

Everything else stems from that. I trust Apple way more than I trust
any of the other tech companies simply because you are their product.

I've been using Apple for such long time. In fact I do all the Win development on Mac (I know it is weird :-)) but my trust has received serious hits lately.

I don't see in what way you trust Apple and you don't trust Microsoft. Do you mean as developer or user?
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 4:01 PM   in response to: John Kouraklis in response to: John Kouraklis
Apple: Hardware

And who pays for the hardware? You

Yeh and Apple makes their money that way. They don't have to
surreptiously collect my personal and usage information to make their
nut. In fact, they are incentivized to keep my data secure and private.

My point is you are Google's product. they make almost nothing on
Android itself.

Google: You

Facebook: You

Microsoft: Azure, Office, and starting with Windows 10: You

Everything else stems from that. I trust Apple way more than I trust
any of the other tech companies simply because you are their product.

I've been using Apple for such long time. In fact I do all the Win development on Mac (I know it is weird :-)) but my trust has received serious hits lately.

I don't see in what way you trust Apple and you don't trust Microsoft. Do you mean as developer or user?

As a user. I did trust m$ until I read about windows 10 and how they
collect data. I've heard they even turn it back on after you turn it off.
John Kouraklis

Posts: 209
Registered: 3/10/01
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 6:46 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:
Apple: Hardware

And who pays for the hardware? You

Yeh and Apple makes their money that way. They don't have to
surreptiously collect my personal and usage information to make their
nut. In fact, they are incentivized to keep my data secure and private.

My point is you are Google's product. they make almost nothing on
Android itself.

Google: You

Facebook: You

Microsoft: Azure, Office, and starting with Windows 10: You

Everything else stems from that. I trust Apple way more than I trust
any of the other tech companies simply because you are their product.

I've been using Apple for such long time. In fact I do all the Win development on Mac (I know it is weird :-)) but my trust has received serious hits lately.

I don't see in what way you trust Apple and you don't trust Microsoft. Do you mean as developer or user?

As a user. I did trust m$ until I read about windows 10 and how they
collect data. I've heard they even turn it back on after you turn it off.

I would be so sure about the data collection thing for none of the US based companies. MS, Google, FB, Apple all operate under the US law.

Please don't put much faith on Apple's fairness although I must give kudos for the way they deal with the recent FBI case. Let's see where this will end though.

Apple has never been fair unless you are famous, have big pockets and you are very very willing to put your hands deep inside---Not to mention customer service and support.

This is not to say they don't make superior quality hardware---full stop to the word hardware.

But as I said elsewhere, this is business....many times sadly

Cheers

John
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 3:49 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:

Clement Doss wrote:

Hi,

I just wanted to point out that microsoft is "going places". A few
years ago I always made jokes about microsoft multiplatform
concept: multiplatform as long as it's a Windows. They released
SQL Server for linux. This was unthinkable a few months ago (at
least for me). Now they have competitives IDE in other
platforms. And yes they are capable of running compatible Delphi
and Free pascal! Native! Linux! OSX!

Microsoft has a long history of trying to lock people in to their
tools and platforms. IE, .Net, limiting which tools can compile for
Windows 8, etc.

It looks like they are trying something different.

I'm just baffled. I need some time to digest all this.

I'm being cautiously optimistic.

Fifteen years ago I was heavily involved with MS (one of the first
MVP's, etc). I've always viewed their activity with respect to .NET
as implementing a layer that all apps would use, to some degree or
other. Their .Net uptake was drastically lower than they had
expected, and there are several reasons for that (which would take a
lot more than a few messages to discuss), but their strategy was to
make .Net essentially a requirement on every device and OS.

Whether it is .Net or a combination of technologies, their real
interest is in creating a toll road that you need to cross. When they
get a critical mass they put up toll booths. Think, as many said
internally "a buck a phone...". But they really wanted it on all
devices.

They have never built, or sold, developer tools with the intent of
having them as products in their own right. At least not since the
1980's. The objectives of their developer tools is to increase
dependency on (e.g. sell) their other products.

Or .Not
YMMV.
Etc.

I won't go in to my embarrassing VB past, but I have used .Net since
around 2002 (which I like), and I broadly agree with your breakdown.

That's why I'm interested in seeing what kind of front end tools.
Things that write to standards and don't require that you buy in to
Microsoft's ecosystem unless I want to.

Use the tools that work to my advantage.

If you follow their path, be very careful and make sure you have a
backup plan.

I am and I do.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 8:26 AM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Am 08.04.2016 um 04:23 schrieb Dan Barclay:


They have never built, or sold, developer tools with the intent of
having them as products in their own right. At least not since the
1980's. The objectives of their developer tools is to increase
dependency on (e.g. sell) their other products.


MS nowadays even sells IoT development boards without Windows on them
with the aim that those using them will use Azure Cloud services.

Greetings

Markus
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 9:54 AM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Markus Humm wrote:

Am 08.04.2016 um 04:23 schrieb Dan Barclay:


They have never built, or sold, developer tools with the intent of
having them as products in their own right. At least not since the
1980's. The objectives of their developer tools is to increase
dependency on (e.g. sell) their other products.


MS nowadays even sells IoT development boards without Windows on them
with the aim that those using them will use Azure Cloud services.

I've worked with the MS guys pretty closely. They are some of the
smartest people on the planet. Their downfall comes in meetings. You
can compute the IQ of room as

HighestIQ/NumberPresent

Ít is particularly true when smart people start talking about something
they have no personal background on.

This is the best description of the phenom I've ever seen:

"Posit the question: Do two people who don't know what they are talking
about know more or less than one person who doesn't know what he's
talking about?

http://www.cartalk.com/content/andy-scale-0

You should be there. It's amazing. And scary, if you depend on their
product. I bailed out.

Dan
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 8:13 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Microsoft has a long history of trying to lock people in to their tools
and platforms. IE, .Net, limiting which tools can compile for Windows
8, etc.

It looks like they are trying something different.

They have to, mobile devices have changed the old desktop structure of doing
business. Also they have been learning from popular open source projects to
fill the gaps in their libraries and services.
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 3:03 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert Padilla wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:
Microsoft has a long history of trying to lock people in to their
tools and platforms. IE, .Net, limiting which tools can compile
for Windows 8, etc.

It looks like they are trying something different.

They have to, mobile devices have changed the old desktop structure
of doing business. Also they have been learning from popular open
source projects to fill the gaps in their libraries and services.

Didn't Microsoft just drop the ball on their latest phone strategy?

Again?

I don't think I'll be an early adopter of their next one.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 8:56 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Didn't Microsoft just drop the ball on their latest phone strategy?
Again?

Seems like many of their open source projects have been updated in the last
24 hours,
at least Win2D that will be the MS version of Cocos2dx, iOS spritekit, so
they are moving on with their new strategy

https://github.com/Microsoft
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 8:02 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Clement Doss wrote:

Hi,

I just wanted to point out that microsoft is "going places". A few
years ago I always made jokes about microsoft multiplatform concept:
multiplatform as long as it's a Windows. They released SQL Server
for linux. This was unthinkable a few months ago (at least for me).
Now they have competitives IDE in other platforms. And yes they are
capable of running compatible Delphi and Free pascal! Native! Linux!
OSX!

Microsoft has a long history of trying to lock people in to their
tools and platforms.

So have other vendors. Apple, for instance.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is
man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress
has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion."
-- Oscar Wilde

Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 8:10 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:

Microsoft has a long history of trying to lock people in to their
tools and platforms.

So have other vendors. Apple, for instance.

Which is why I'm also wary of Apple.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 8:48 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:

Microsoft has a long history of trying to lock people in to their
tools and platforms.

So have other vendors. Apple, for instance.

Which is why I'm also wary of Apple.

I'm not. There is vendor lock in for most cars too, and yet we can live
with that too.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Simplicity carried to the extreme becomes elegance."
-- Jon Franklin
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 2:33 PM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
Clement Doss wrote:
And yes they are
capable of running compatible Delphi and Free pascal! Native!

They are? Compile Delphi from within their IDE? Or did I read that
completely backwards and upside down?
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 8:07 AM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Dominique Willems wrote:

Clement Doss wrote:
And yes they are
capable of running compatible Delphi and Free pascal! Native!

They are? Compile Delphi from within their IDE? Or did I read that
completely backwards and upside down?

Yes. This is what I know, or think I know:

The compiler is written in C++Builder and some assembler, but it is,
AFAIK, developed using RAD Studio. The IDE is written in Delphi, using
the VCL and their own VCL components and Delphi classes. The editor is,
IIRC, written in C or C++, but also developed using RAD Studio.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"The purpose of law is to prevent the strong from always having
their way."
-- Ovid
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 10:59 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| The compiler is written in C++Builder and some assembler, but it is,
| AFAIK, developed using RAD Studio. The IDE is written in Delphi, using
| the VCL and their own VCL components and Delphi classes. The editor
| is, IIRC, written in C or C++, but also developed using RAD Studio.

Cool! RAD Studio seems to be a very flexible development environment!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-10 10:58:40
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 10, 2016 6:48 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote in message:

|Rudy,

| The compiler is written in C++Builder and some assembler, but it is,
| AFAIK, developed using RAD Studio. The IDE is written in Delphi, using
| the VCL and their own VCL components and Delphi classes. The editor
| is, IIRC, written in C or C++, but also developed using RAD Studio.

Cool! RAD Studio seems to be a very flexible development environment!

ah! oh! you mean contortionist :-D
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 11, 2016 11:59 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert,

| | | Cool! RAD Studio seems to be a very flexible development
| | | environment!

| ah! oh! you mean contortionist :-D

<giggle> ;-)

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-04-11 11:59:41
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
Click to report abuse...   Click to reply to this thread Reply
  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 3:40 PM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
On 4/7/16 4:53 PM, Clement Doss wrote:
Hi,

I just wanted to point out that microsoft is "going places". A few years ago I always made jokes about microsoft multiplatform concept: multiplatform as long as it's a Windows.
They released SQL Server for linux.
This was unthinkable a few months ago (at least for me). Now they have competitives IDE in other platforms. And yes they are capable of running compatible Delphi and Free pascal! Native! Linux! OSX!

I'm just baffled. I need some time to digest all this.

MINI comes to my mind ( Microsoft Is Not mIcrosoft )

BTW I just renewed my subscription. I'll stick around, at least, for another year ;)

Clément

I just can't help but think once they get any kind of traction with
windows 10 universal that they will just revert back to their old ways.
Phillip Woon

Posts: 189
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 8:22 PM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
Clement Doss wrote:
Hi,

I just wanted to point out that microsoft is "going places". A few years ago I always made jokes about microsoft multiplatform concept: multiplatform as long as it's a Windows.
They released SQL Server for linux.
This was unthinkable a few months ago (at least for me). Now they have competitives IDE in other platforms. And yes they are capable of running compatible Delphi and Free pascal! Native! Linux! OSX!

I'm just baffled. I need some time to digest all this.

MINI comes to my mind ( Microsoft Is Not mIcrosoft )

BTW I just renewed my subscription. I'll stick around, at least, for another year ;)

Clément

By the way, SQL Server for Linux will be released in 2017.
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 7, 2016 3:26 PM   in response to: Clement Doss in response to: Clement Doss
On 4/6/16 4:08 PM, Clement Doss wrote:
https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and Windows."

Clément

I can only hope this is true...

Google is said to be considering Swift as a ‘first class’ language for
Android

http://thenextweb.com/dd/2016/04/07/google-facebook-uber-swift/
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 12:43 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:
On 4/6/16 4:08 PM, Clement Doss wrote:
https://code.visualstudio.com/

"Build and debug modern web and cloud applications. VS Code is free and available on your favorite platform - Linux, Mac OSX, and Windows."

Clément

I can only hope this is true...

Google is said to be considering Swift as a ‘first class’ language for
Android

http://thenextweb.com/dd/2016/04/07/google-facebook-uber-swift/

And you don't even have to wait for Google, you can use Swift on Android now

http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/silver/

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 4:20 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
I can only hope this is true...

Google is said to be considering Swift as a ‘first class’ language for
Android

http://thenextweb.com/dd/2016/04/07/google-facebook-uber-swift/

And you don't even have to wait for Google, you can use Swift on Android now

http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/silver/

I've looked at that, but there's a lot more the reusing code than being
able to compile swift. I don't expect (or want to) to reuse the GUI,
but i do expect to be able to reuse things from the stack like
Networking and Storage

I know silver has it's own multi platform library for some of this, but
I really want an open source library the is officially supported by
Apple and other large players so I know it's going to be available in 5
years.

If i'm not getting upwards of 75% code reuse then its not worth it IMO.
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 4:32 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:
I can only hope this is true...

Google is said to be considering Swift as a ‘first class’ language for
Android

http://thenextweb.com/dd/2016/04/07/google-facebook-uber-swift/

And you don't even have to wait for Google, you can use Swift on Android now

http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/silver/

I've looked at that, but there's a lot more the reusing code than being
able to compile swift. I don't expect (or want to) to reuse the GUI,
but i do expect to be able to reuse things from the stack like
Networking and Storage

I know silver has it's own multi platform library for some of this, but
I really want an open source library the is officially supported by
Apple and other large players so I know it's going to be available in 5
years.

If i'm not getting upwards of 75% code reuse then its not worth it IMO.

Even if Google or Apple would port Swift to Android you would not get
any more code reuse between iOS and Android than you have now with Silver.

It would be language port, not platform (frameworks) port.

I am using Swift for iOS, and Java for Android. My long term goal is using Swift
for both, but I gains are minimal and I don't have enough non-GUI code to
justify move now.

I didn't even had time to install Silver, even though it is free and I really want to use it.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 4:51 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Even if Google or Apple would port Swift to Android you would not get
any more code reuse between iOS and Android than you have now with Silver.

Examples of libraries i'd like to reuse on both platforms: Core Data,
NSURLSession, GCD. I don't see why they couldn't work on Android.

I didn't even had time to install Silver, even though it is free and I really want to use it.

I'm not interested in buying into a stack this important this isn't
backed by a major Corp. I want answers when I need them and I want to
know a bunch of other developers are actively using it.
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 5:44 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:
Even if Google or Apple would port Swift to Android you would not get
any more code reuse between iOS and Android than you have now with Silver.

Examples of libraries i'd like to reuse on both platforms: Core Data,
NSURLSession, GCD. I don't see why they couldn't work on Android.

I don't think converting those would be easy. And I don't think this is something
Apple would do, and neither Google would.


I didn't even had time to install Silver, even though it is free and I really want to use it.

I'm not interested in buying into a stack this important this isn't
backed by a major Corp. I want answers when I need them and I want to
know a bunch of other developers are actively using it.

I understand. I don't think using Silver poses great risk. For one thing it is free, and
it integrates with other code on native level - you can mix Java libraries directly with
Swift ones. UI is 100% native. And Swift as language has wide adoption and will spread
even more.

Even if RemObjects would seize to support it converting back to Java would be rather trivial
and you would not need to do conversion right away.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
https://twitter.com/dalijap
https://plus.google.com/+DalijaPrasnikar
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 8:30 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Am 08.04.2016 um 13:51 schrieb Mike Margerum:
Even if Google or Apple would port Swift to Android you would not get
any more code reuse between iOS and Android than you have now with Silver.

Examples of libraries i'd like to reuse on both platforms: Core Data,
NSURLSession, GCD. I don't see why they couldn't work on Android.

But why should they be available there? iOS and thus Apple might not
really profit from making them available on non pple platforms.

Greetings

Markus
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 8, 2016 4:03 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Examples of libraries i'd like to reuse on both platforms: Core Data,
NSURLSession, GCD. I don't see why they couldn't work on Android.

But why should they be available there? iOS and thus Apple might not
really profit from making them available on non pple platforms.

They probably don't have any good reason to do this other than to head
off C# potentially becoming the standard language everyone uses to build
apps.
Erick Engelke

Posts: 101
Registered: 12/5/02
Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 25, 2016 1:50 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:
Examples of libraries i'd like to reuse on both platforms: Core Data,
NSURLSession, GCD. I don't see why they couldn't work on Android.

But why should they be available there? iOS and thus Apple might not
really profit from making them available on non pple platforms.

Looking at QuickTime which is no longer developed for Windows, Apple is increasingly keeping their 'assets' to their own products. It makes sense, they have enough market share now.

--
Erick Engelke
HTML5 Builder Book
http://www.erickengelke.com
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
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Re: Now what?
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  Posted: Apr 25, 2016 10:56 PM   in response to: Erick Engelke in response to: Erick Engelke
Am 25.04.2016 um 22:50 schrieb N/A Programmer:
Mike Margerum wrote:
Examples of libraries i'd like to reuse on both platforms: Core Data,
NSURLSession, GCD. I don't see why they couldn't work on Android.

But why should they be available there? iOS and thus Apple might not
really profit from making them available on non pple platforms.

Looking at QuickTime which is no longer developed for Windows, Apple is increasingly keeping their 'assets' to their own products. It makes sense, they have enough market share now.

Is QuickTime really such an asset?
When I remember correctly updating it always way a pain because it took
so long.

Greetings

Markus
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