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Thread: SA renewall multiple years?



Permlink Replies: 24 - Last Post: Mar 5, 2016 2:36 AM Last Post By: Michael Thuma Threads: [ Previous | Next ]
Brandon Staggs

Posts: 683
Registered: 3/3/01
SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 7:50 AM
I usually renew my software maintenance agreement as soon as they send
me the email, but this year I let it slide and was planning to do it
closer to the expiration.

Today I got an email reminding me there was only 30 days until
expiration, but included with this was the statement that they could
give me "last year's rate" on a 2 or 3 year renewal.

It does not seem prudent to take advantage of that given the current
giant question mark hanging over Delphi with Idera, but I am wondering
if this is something new, or something they do every year for anyone,
like the "last chance" upgrade offers they do every year for everyone.
Anybody else ever see this?

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
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Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 8:03 AM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
Hi,

I haven't exactly seen this particular case, but i guess the account managers might tweak the offers depending on the individual licenses.

Like i was offered free mobile upgrade along with Delphi upgrade, but i had to let it slide as i just do hobby programming and could never use mobile part even though i bought it.

Back to point, this particular offer was not on the website or any other "last chance" so offers are specifically designed too, seems like.
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 8:13 AM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
On 3/1/2016 7:50 AM, Brandon Staggs wrote:
I usually renew my software maintenance agreement as soon as they send
me the email, but this year I let it slide and was planning to do it
closer to the expiration.

Today I got an email reminding me there was only 30 days until
expiration, but included with this was the statement that they could
give me "last year's rate" on a 2 or 3 year renewal.

It does not seem prudent to take advantage of that given the current
giant question mark hanging over Delphi with Idera, but I am wondering
if this is something new, or something they do every year for anyone,
like the "last chance" upgrade offers they do every year for everyone.
Anybody else ever see this?

I received the same offer with my recent renewal letter. This is the
first time I've ever been offered such a 'deal' and it smacks a bit of
cash-flow desperation. It gets them short-term cash-flow in exchange
for loss of long-term revenue - a classic case of problems with a
company's finances (not the simple offering, but the sudden change in
policy). I found it worrisome when I received it, and now seeing what
has occurred with the development team, it makes me feel far worse...

David Erbas-White
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Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 8:19 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
Also,

Unless there are lots of higher end edition renewals, how much extra can one save 3 year standard rate.

Like 25-30 dollars on a professional edition over period of 3 years?
david hoke

Posts: 616
Registered: 2/9/07
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 8:36 AM   in response to: Guest in response to: Guest
kanwalpal flora wrote:

Also,

Unless there are lots of higher end edition renewals, how much
extra can one save 3 year standard rate.

Like 25-30 dollars on a professional edition over period of 3 years?

Wouldn't estimated savings depend on how much the new rate might be in
the future? Did the email state what the future rate would be?
Brandon Staggs

Posts: 683
Registered: 3/3/01
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 12:33 PM   in response to: Guest in response to: Guest
"kanwalpal flora" wrote on Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:19:49 -0800:

Like 25-30 dollars on a professional edition over period of 3 years?

For me the savings was going to be less than $100 over those extra
years, so I will pass.

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
Ilya S

Posts: 21
Registered: 1/8/10
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 1:16 AM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
Brandon Staggs wrote:
For me the savings was going to be less than $100 over those extra
years, so I will pass.

Could you please post absolute price for your SA offer for 1/2/3 years if it was given instead of percent and/or discount?
That would drive home more sense to my light head.

Edited by: Ilya S on Mar 2, 2016 1:17 PM
Brandon Staggs

Posts: 683
Registered: 3/3/01
Re: SA renewall multiple years? [Edit]
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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 6:57 AM   in response to: Ilya S in response to: Ilya S
"Ilya S" wrote on Wed, 2 Mar 2016 01:17:35 -0800:

Brandon Staggs wrote:
For me the savings was going to be less than $100 over those extra
years, so I will pass.

Could you please post absolute price for your SA offer for 1/2/3 years if it was given instead of percent and/or discount?
That would drive home more sense to my light head.

They offered $510/yr for 2+ year renewal. The 1 year price is $530.

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
Uwe Raabe

Posts: 180
Registered: 10/20/00
Re: SA renewall multiple years? [Edit]
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  Posted: Mar 3, 2016 3:30 PM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
Brandon Staggs wrote:

"Ilya S" wrote on Wed, 2 Mar 2016 01:17:35 -0800:

Brandon Staggs wrote:
For me the savings was going to be less than $100 over those extra
years, so I will pass.

Could you please post absolute price for your SA offer for 1/2/3
years if it was given instead of percent and/or discount? That
would drive home more sense to my light head.

They offered $510/yr for 2+ year renewal. The 1 year price is $530.

I can only speak for myself, but up to now my subscription price has
had a constant increase of 4% per year. So for the 2nd year the
difference will be about $40 and for the 3rd year it will be more than
$60. This sums up to $120+ for a three year subscription.

--
Uwe Raabe
Embarcadero MVP
david hoke

Posts: 616
Registered: 2/9/07
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 8:34 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

of cash-flow desperation. It gets them short-term cash-flow in
exchange for loss of long-term revenue -

I can think of at least the following alternative -

Perhaps they have been presented with a similar offer regarding long
term leases (or taxes?) on some of their office space (or ?), and they
are attempting to take advantage of it - ?
Raul Sinimae

Posts: 92
Registered: 5/8/08
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 8:47 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:
I received the same offer with my recent renewal letter. This is the
first time I've ever been offered such a 'deal' and it smacks a bit of
cash-flow desperation. It gets them short-term cash-flow in exchange
for loss of long-term revenue - a classic case of problems with a
company's finances (not the simple offering, but the sudden change in
policy). I found it worrisome when I received it, and now seeing what
has occurred with the development team, it makes me feel far worse...

I would completely disagree - we try to do same with our customers.

IMHO for a company it allows for better long term planning. Both in terms of features but also resources - if you know you have certain number of 3-years renewals it makes hiring additional resources easier today so you can target that 3 year horizon.

SA cost is not that significant so any "loss of revenue" due to multi-year discount is likely offset by not having to process the renewals annually.

I'm not saying this is what Idera is doing but to me this definitely does not smack of cash flow desperation.

Raul
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
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Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 9:03 AM   in response to: Raul Sinimae in response to: Raul Sinimae
On 3/1/2016 8:47 AM, Raul Sinimae wrote:

I'm not saying this is what Idera is doing but to me this definitely does not smack of cash flow desperation.

I'll try and make myself clearer...

If it had been done as part of a discussion, blog post, or roadmap
explanation, I would view it more along the lines of a standard business
practice. For example, if as part of the roadmap there had been a
statement like, "We've received a number of requests for people who
would like to sign up for multiple-year renewals, and after reviewing
the business impact, we're going to start offering them..." Given a
statement such as that, or if there had actually been visible requests
from customers about such a paradigm (I certainly can't recall seeing
any), I would be far less suspicious.

When they're kind of dropped in in 'stealth' mode, as a note in the
renewal email, it lends a different feeling. Particularly since the
inflation rate is so low (and recession is a possibility), the
likelihood of a price increase doesn't seem as high, and thus the
potential 'savings' are far less.

There's also the possibility that they've changed the marketing strategy
slightly in order to 'lock in' folks a bit more -- if the money has
already been spent to stay with a product, you're more likely to stay
with that product, than to jump ship to another alternative. Speaking
for myself alone, I know that my yearly SA renewal always causes me to
stop and ask the question if it isn't the right time to transition away
from RAD Studio...

Bottom line, I don't see anything about the offer as 'positive' for the
end user, and there are potential 'negative' indications that it gives.
I fully understand that YMMV, though... <G>

David Erbas-White
Raul Sinimae

Posts: 92
Registered: 5/8/08
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 9:27 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:
If it had been done as part of a discussion, blog post, or roadmap
explanation, I would view it more along the lines of a standard business
practice. For example, if as part of the roadmap there had been a
statement like, "We've received a number of requests for people who
would like to sign up for multiple-year renewals, and after reviewing
the business impact, we're going to start offering them..." Given a
statement such as that, or if there had actually been visible requests
from customers about such a paradigm (I certainly can't recall seeing
any), I would be far less suspicious.

I understand but since when has Embarcadero discussed any of their marketing/sales strategy really before executing it ?

I realize you would prefer if they did (as would i ) but i don't see it being any different than in the past.

Not to mention in this case why bother discussing it !? The only change has been to provide more renewal options - nobody is forcing anything and you can still buy 1 year.

I know we have been asking this from our rep for some 5+ years - especially in the old days it was major PITA in when we had to fax it back every year.

When they're kind of dropped in in 'stealth' mode, as a note in the
renewal email, it lends a different feeling. Particularly since the
inflation rate is so low (and recession is a possibility), the
likelihood of a price increase doesn't seem as high, and thus the
potential 'savings' are far less.

Nobody is forcing this though - you can simply continue annually or even not renew at all.

There's also the possibility that they've changed the marketing strategy
slightly in order to 'lock in' folks a bit more -- if the money has
already been spent to stay with a product, you're more likely to stay
with that product, than to jump ship to another alternative. Speaking
for myself alone, I know that my yearly SA renewal always causes me to
stop and ask the question if it isn't the right time to transition away
from RAD Studio...

So they are executing a good business practice of locking in long term customers.

Would you not want to do the same ? - i know we do and are actively pursuing multi-year renewals.

And as customer you still have the same choices available as you did before.

As a customer I still have to make a decision as to what makes most sense to me but in this case it do see this as a positive - i have same options as last time and even few more.

Raul
Matthew Jones

Posts: 337
Registered: 1/25/98
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 1:00 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

If it had been done as part of a discussion, blog post, or roadmap
explanation, I would view it more along the lines of a standard
business practice. For example, if as part of the roadmap there had
been a statement like, "We've received a number of requests for
people who would like to sign up for multiple-year renewals, and
after reviewing the business impact, we're going to start offering
them..." Given a statement such as that, or if there had actually
been visible requests from customers about such a paradigm (I
certainly can't recall seeing any), I would be far less suspicious.

When they're kind of dropped in in 'stealth' mode, as a note in the
renewal email, it lends a different feeling

In this day and age, it is likely that someone wants to do A/B testing.
One person might be offered 5% discount, someone else 10%. Or some
other offer. If you put it all out there, you can't do comparisons.
Michael Thuma

Posts: 104
Registered: 1/30/00
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 5, 2016 2:36 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
I received that years ago too... could have happend for the reasons you mentioned of course. There are some products out there you can renew for more than one year. In my case. I often forget to renew PL-SQL developer because I fairly use it. So it's pretty fair to pay for 3 years in advance. Allround Automatons did not back date and very likely will not do.

David Erbas-White wrote:
On 3/1/2016 7:50 AM, Brandon Staggs wrote:
I received the same offer with my recent renewal letter. This is the
first time I've ever been offered such a 'deal' and it smacks a bit of
cash-flow desperation. It gets them short-term cash-flow in exchange
for loss of long-term revenue - a classic case of problems with a
company's finances (not the simple offering, but the sudden change in
policy). I found it worrisome when I received it, and now seeing what
has occurred with the development team, it makes me feel far worse...

David Erbas-White

--
Delphi Programming is fun. Hilarious.
Raul Sinimae

Posts: 92
Registered: 5/8/08
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 8:40 AM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
It does not seem prudent to take advantage of that given the current
giant question mark hanging over Delphi with Idera, but I am wondering
if this is something new, or something they do every year for anyone,
like the "last chance" upgrade offers they do every year for everyone.
Anybody else ever see this

Have not seen this myself yet but why exactly is this not prudent ?!

If you plan to use Delphi for the foreseeable future then you would want SA just to ensure you get the bug fixes. This also would lock in the price for few years so you're covered.

I don't know anything about Idera plans (other than the road map) but clearly they are shipping fixes and releases for their other products so i expect them to do same for Delphi.

Raul

david hoke

Posts: 616
Registered: 2/9/07
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 8:45 AM   in response to: Raul Sinimae in response to: Raul Sinimae
Raul Sinimae wrote:

It does not seem prudent to take advantage of that given the current
giant question mark hanging over Delphi with Idera, but I am
wondering if this is something new, or something they do every year
for anyone, like the "last chance" upgrade offers they do every
year for everyone. Anybody else ever see this

Have not seen this myself yet but why exactly is this not prudent ?!

IIRC, the predecessor of FMX (before purchased by
whoever-they-were-at-the-time) offered existing customers a lifetime of
free upgrades (or something of that sort) shortly before discontinuing
development of that independent product, and continuing development on
FMX as employee of purchaser.

Perhaps some individuals have recollection of that occurrence.

Unless I'm just totally misremembering the circumstances...
Dominique Willems

Posts: 591
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 9:00 AM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:
Perhaps some individuals have recollection of that occurrence.

Uh huh.

Unless I'm just totally misremembering the circumstances...

You are not.
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 9:01 AM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:

Raul Sinimae wrote:

It does not seem prudent to take advantage of that given the
current giant question mark hanging over Delphi with Idera, but I
am wondering if this is something new, or something they do every
year for anyone, like the "last chance" upgrade offers they do
every year for everyone. Anybody else ever see this

Have not seen this myself yet but why exactly is this not prudent ?!

IIRC, the predecessor of FMX (before purchased by
whoever-they-were-at-the-time) offered existing customers a lifetime
of free upgrades (or something of that sort) shortly before
discontinuing development of that independent product, and continuing
development on FMX as employee of purchaser.

Perhaps some individuals have recollection of that occurrence.

Unless I'm just totally misremembering the circumstances...

Sometimes it works out, sometimes not. Don't assume they're about to
disappear.

One of the best buys we made, years ago, was "lifetime" for UltraEdit
and UltraCompare. They are absolutely great products. We've had many
years of upgrades, and expect many more.

They apparently needed a cashflow boost at the time. They got it, we
took the chance, and I suppose it worked out for both of us.

YMMV.

Dan
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 12:09 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan,

| One of the best buys we made, years ago, was "lifetime" for UltraEdit
| and UltraCompare. They are absolutely great products. We've had many
| years of upgrades, and expect many more.

Ditto.

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.19.1.372 - 2016-03-02 12:08:41
Raul Sinimae

Posts: 92
Registered: 5/8/08
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 9:03 AM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:
IIRC, the predecessor of FMX (before purchased by
whoever-they-were-at-the-time) offered existing customers a lifetime of
free upgrades (or something of that sort) shortly before discontinuing
development of that independent product, and continuing development on
FMX as employee of purchaser.

Perhaps some individuals have recollection of that occurrence.

Unless I'm just totally misremembering the circumstances...

You're correct as i recall. I did not myself buy into (VGScene i think it was) but offering free lifetime updates is IMHO different from 1-3 years of maintenance.

I'm simply saying that if you're currently using Delphi and plan to do so in the future i think this is a worthwhile offer to consider.

We still use D2007 and XE2 to maintain some older projects (in addition to D10S for new) and i know we will be sticking with delphi for a long time. Simply having access to bug fixes in D10S makes it worthwhile for us - any new releases as per roadmap are gravy.

Raul
Alexander Elagin

Posts: 55
Registered: 9/18/00
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 9:51 PM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:
IIRC, the predecessor of FMX (before purchased by
whoever-they-were-at-the-time) offered existing customers a lifetime of
free upgrades (or something of that sort) shortly before discontinuing
development of that independent product, and continuing development on
FMX as employee of purchaser.

Perhaps some individuals have recollection of that occurrence.
The same story happened when they purchased AnyDAC (now FireDAC). I had just renewed my AnyDAC subscription in December and boom! in January (or February) it no longer existed as a separate product and I got no updates or at least clarifications what happened. Needless to say I'll never again touch FireDAC in my lifetime given this attitude.
Brandon Staggs

Posts: 683
Registered: 3/3/01
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 12:40 PM   in response to: Raul Sinimae in response to: Raul Sinimae
"Raul Sinimae" wrote on Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:40:59 -0800:

Have not seen this myself yet but why exactly is this not prudent ?!

If you plan to use Delphi for the foreseeable future then you would want SA just to ensure you get the bug fixes. This also would lock in the price for few years so you're covered.

Of course SA is the way to go. I've been on contract for years and
it's the only reasonable way to buy Delphi.

But it's not prudent for me because the savings in cost is absurdly
small and I do not have confidence that they will be releasing
anything new in two years. I think it is likely enough, but I am not
about to give them three years of SA fees hoping they will still be
around when the discount for me is so minimal.

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
Phillip Woon

Posts: 189
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 1, 2016 1:03 PM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
Brandon Staggs wrote:
"Raul Sinimae" wrote on Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:40:59 -0800:

Have not seen this myself yet but why exactly is this not prudent ?!

If you plan to use Delphi for the foreseeable future then you would want SA just to ensure you get the bug fixes. This also would lock in the price for few years so you're covered.

Of course SA is the way to go. I've been on contract for years and
it's the only reasonable way to buy Delphi.

But it's not prudent for me because the savings in cost is absurdly
small and I do not have confidence that they will be releasing
anything new in two years. I think it is likely enough, but I am not
about to give them three years of SA fees hoping they will still be
around when the discount for me is so minimal.

--

My SA comes due for renewal around the September timeframe. I predict they won't release a new version in the spring, so with my luck, I'll have to wait until I renew, something I'm seriously reconsidering, as my employer also has SA and I may just rely on it.
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: SA renewall multiple years?
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  Posted: Mar 2, 2016 10:39 AM   in response to: Phillip Woon in response to: Phillip Woon
Am 01.03.2016 um 22:03 schrieb Phillip Woon:
Brandon Staggs wrote:
"Raul Sinimae" wrote on Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:40:59 -0800:

Have not seen this myself yet but why exactly is this not prudent ?!

If you plan to use Delphi for the foreseeable future then you would want SA just to ensure you get the bug fixes. This also would lock in the price for few years so you're covered.

Of course SA is the way to go. I've been on contract for years and
it's the only reasonable way to buy Delphi.

But it's not prudent for me because the savings in cost is absurdly
small and I do not have confidence that they will be releasing
anything new in two years. I think it is likely enough, but I am not
about to give them three years of SA fees hoping they will still be
around when the discount for me is so minimal.

--

My SA comes due for renewal around the September timeframe. I predict they won't release a new version in the spring, so with my luck, I'll have to wait until I renew, something I'm seriously reconsidering, as my employer also has SA and I may just rely on it.

Hello,

what makes you think that they won't release a new version in spring?
Did you read the roadmap which got published not long ago?
Afaik it hints clearly at 2 releases in 2016.

Greetings

Markus
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