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Thread: Let's buy delphi



Permlink Replies: 33 - Last Post: Oct 11, 2015 5:49 PM Last Post By: Bruce McGee
Roland Kossow

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Registered: 9/23/99
Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 7:27 AM
Perhabs an option?
Please participate and fill out the survey on your willingness to buy ;-)

https://www.cybertribe.de/letsbuydelphi/

Edited by: Roland Kossow on Oct 9, 2015 8:24 AM
Nick Hodges

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 7:45 AM   in response to: Roland Kossow in response to: Roland Kossow
Roland Kossow wrote:

Please participate and fill out the survey on your willingness to buy
;-)

My estimation of how much you'd have to raise, given the Idera
valuation: $100 million. At a minimum.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Roland Kossow

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 7:55 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
If they bought the whole zoo for 425 mio?
100 mio is too much ... (we need to talk the price down when we want to buy it, so why not start with that now - right?).

But really - they bought about seven larger products and their customer base with embarcadero ... so 30 - 50 mio - would be a more fair price tag - considering that I do not want to take them their customers. Judging from the revenue stream the IDE part generates it might even be worth less - but I don't know that.
Luigi Sandon

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 8:12 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
My estimation of how much you'd have to raise, given the Idera
valuation: $100 million. At a minimum.

Is this a *fact*? <G>

We have really no idea what the different sides of the business are valued. CodeGear was sold to Embarcadero at around $25M. Embarcadero itself was bought by Thoma Bravo at about $200M.

But without looking at the balance sheets it's difficult to say anything. If Idera wish to sell the dev tools, of course it will try to get as much money as it can - how much someone is willingly to spend for them, is another matter.
Nick Hodges

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 8:14 AM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
Luigi Sandon wrote:


Is this a fact? <G>

It's a fact that it is my estimation, yes. ;-)


--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun

Luigi Sandon

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 8:16 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
It's a fact that it is my estimation, yes. ;-)

Ah, OK. Just, business analyst usually don't estimate using their heart...

In many ways, if Idera is not interested and there could be a good buyer, the less they ask the better...
Nick Hodges

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Re: Let's buy delphi [Edit]
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 8:21 AM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
Luigi Sandon wrote:

In many ways, if Idera is not interested and there could be a good
buyer, the less they ask the better...

From the buyer's perspective, sure.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Gilbert Padilla

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 9:08 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Please participate and fill out the survey on your willingness to buy
;-)

My estimation of how much you'd have to raise, given the Idera
valuation: $100 million. At a minimum.

With 2 million users willing to buy the next version for $500, it wouldn't
be hard to get 100 millions. ;-)
Roland Kossow

Posts: 77
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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 9:14 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert Padilla wrote:
Please participate and fill out the survey on your willingness to buy
;-)

My estimation of how much you'd have to raise, given the Idera
valuation: $100 million. At a minimum.

With 2 million users willing to buy the next version for $500, it wouldn't
be hard to get 100 millions. ;-)

Exactly ;-) ... Oh well - guess they did not all fill out the survey yet - so please spread the word. I think it would be great if we reach 5% of them. We would have 100.000 willing buyers which should be able to raise 75 mio EUR which are aprox 85 mio bucks. I bet we could buy it for that, The problem is that the average buyer seems not to see the need to maintain (and even extend) what we will have bought. Well we'll see.
Mike Margerum

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 10, 2015 9:03 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
With 2 million users willing to buy the next version for $500, it wouldn't
be hard to get 100 millions. ;-)

I'd kick in my SA amount for sure. Get rid of all of the useless bean
counters and let the smart guys make Delphi even greater.
Arnaud Bouchez

Posts: 137
Registered: 8/2/15
Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 10:03 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
My estimation of how much you'd have to raise, given the Idera
valuation: $100 million. At a minimum.

A lot of money.

What for?
How many Delphi experts are there currently working at Embarcadero?
I mean, truly dedicated people, with years of product knowledge.
They are still great people, like Allen Bauer, but judging from some part of FMX or the RTL, and some regression (in the XE8 generics, or in D10Seattle for Win64)... I have doubts...

With your proposal, what you may buy is IP, and a team of (short-paid - as I've been told) maintainers.
What we need is not only IP, but resources to push Delphi forward...

Better invest some money sustaining an Open Source project like FPC.
I'm quite confident that you may achieve huge results by "sponsoring" FPC leaders, to allow them to work full time on FPC and Lazarus.

It would definitively cost less.
And FPC, as a cross-platform compiler, has a lot of potential.
With the insurance that you have the experts working for you, it won't be wasted money.
Roland Kossow

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Registered: 9/23/99
Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 10:22 AM   in response to: Arnaud Bouchez in response to: Arnaud Bouchez
Arnaud Bouchez wrote:
Nick Hodges wrote:
My estimation of how much you'd have to raise, given the Idera
valuation: $100 million. At a minimum.

A lot of money.

What for?
How many Delphi experts are there currently working at Embarcadero?
I mean, truly dedicated people, with years of product knowledge.
They are still great people, like Allen Bauer, but judging from some part of FMX or the RTL, and some regression (in the XE8 generics, or in D10Seattle for Win64)... I have doubts...

With your proposal, what you may buy is IP, and a team of (short-paid - as I've been told) maintainers.
What we need is not only IP, but resources to push Delphi forward...

Better invest some money sustaining an Open Source project like FPC.
I'm quite confident that you may achieve huge results by "sponsoring" FPC leaders, to allow them to work full time on FPC and Lazarus.

It would definitively cost less.
And FPC, as a cross-platform compiler, has a lot of potential.
With the insurance that you have the experts working for you, it won't be wasted money.

That is interesting. You might be right.
wenjie zhou

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Registered: 6/28/02
Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 10, 2015 2:06 AM   in response to: Arnaud Bouchez in response to: Arnaud Bouchez
It would definitively cost less.
And FPC, as a cross-platform compiler, has a lot of potential.
With the insurance that you have the experts working for you, it won't be wasted money.

Maybe it's true.
Roland Kossow

Posts: 77
Registered: 9/23/99
Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 10, 2015 2:46 AM   in response to: wenjie zhou in response to: wenjie zhou
wenjie zhou wrote:
It would definitively cost less.
And FPC, as a cross-platform compiler, has a lot of potential.
With the insurance that you have the experts working for you, it won't be wasted money.

Maybe it's true.

Yes - maybe.

One question: could you be so nice and post the link of the survey on relevant asian Delphi communities?
What is your take on that: Would the text need to be tranlsated to the asian languages or will english be no problem?

Best regards

Roland
Luigi Sandon

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 8:15 AM   in response to: Roland Kossow in response to: Roland Kossow
Perhabs an option?

You should check how profitable the business is and could be, before...being a private company you won't have access to those information easily, unless you're a true reputable buyer.
Roland Kossow

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 8:20 AM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
Luigi Sandon wrote:
Perhabs an option?

You should check how profitable the business is and could be, before...being a private company you won't have access to those information easily, unless you're a true reputable buyer.

I know. That is why I want to see how much we could raise altogether. But IMO we do not need a profit in money - we just need to buy and maintain it for less than the capital value of our subscirpion payments is.
Luigi Sandon

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 9:59 AM   in response to: Roland Kossow in response to: Roland Kossow
I know. That is why I want to see how much we could raise altogether. But IMO we do not need a profit in money - we just need to buy and maintain it for less than the capital value of our subscirpion payments is.

Anyway, buying it would be the "simplest" thing. The problem would be to run it after the purchase. How to run it? A "Delphi Foundation"? How to select executive and managers? Who would steer the business targets? Who would be accountable for them?

Successful open source projects have usually clear leaders, often some company/foundation backing them, an headless company would not go much far.
Roland Kossow

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 10:22 AM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
Luigi Sandon wrote:
I know. That is why I want to see how much we could raise altogether. But IMO we do not need a profit in money - we just need to buy and maintain it for less than the capital value of our subscirpion payments is.

Anyway, buying it would be the "simplest" thing. The problem would be to run it after the purchase. How to run it? A "Delphi Foundation"? How to select executive and managers? Who would steer the business targets? Who would be accountable for them?

Successful open source projects have usually clear leaders, often some company/foundation backing them, an headless company would not go much far.

I absolutely agree.
Olivier Sannier

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Registered: 8/26/01
Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 8:21 AM   in response to: Roland Kossow in response to: Roland Kossow
Roland Kossow wrote:
Perhabs an option?
Please participate and fill out the survey on your willingness to buy ;-)

https://www.cybertribe.de/letsbuydelphi/

Your link has extra invisible characters at the end which makes it go to
a 404
Roland Kossow

Posts: 77
Registered: 9/23/99
Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 8:25 AM   in response to: Olivier Sannier in response to: Olivier Sannier
Olivier Sannier wrote:
Roland Kossow wrote:
Perhabs an option?
Please participate and fill out the survey on your willingness to buy ;-)

https://www.cybertribe.de/letsbuydelphi/

Your link has extra invisible characters at the end which makes it go to
a 404

Thanks for the hint. Fixed.
Daniel Sox

Posts: 1
Registered: 7/11/13
Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 12:18 PM   in response to: Roland Kossow in response to: Roland Kossow
Roland Kossow wrote:
Perhabs an option?
Please participate and fill out the survey on your willingness to buy ;-)

https://www.cybertribe.de/letsbuydelphi/

Edited by: Roland Kossow on Oct 9, 2015 8:24 AM

I think it is unlikely that the IDE business will be sold off. Remember when Embarcadero bought Codegear, one of the reasons was that their database development products were predominately written in Delphi, if that is still the case, why would they sell off and leave in uncertain hands a tool chain they are dependent on?
david hoke

Posts: 616
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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 1:02 PM   in response to: Daniel Sox in response to: Daniel Sox
Daniel Sox wrote:


Remember when Embarcadero bought Codegear, one of the reasons was
that their database development products were predominately written

Actually, I don't remember that, and somehow I thought that was not
the case.

Do you have a (extant) reference, or do others remember it that way?
Roland Kossow

Posts: 77
Registered: 9/23/99
Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 1:13 PM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
david hoke wrote:
Daniel Sox wrote:


Remember when Embarcadero bought Codegear, one of the reasons was
that their database development products were predominately written

Actually, I don't remember that, and somehow I thought that was not
the case.

Do you have a (extant) reference, or do others remember it that way?

I remember that it was mentioned that the owner of embarcadero was a Delphi enthusiastic himself. If they developed them with Delphi they IMO did not devlop them with any DB abstraction layer that was part of Delphi as long as I can remember,
Luigi Sandon

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 1:16 PM   in response to: david hoke in response to: david hoke
Do you have a (extant) reference, or do others remember it that way?

AFAIK a lot of Embarcadero products looks to be written in Java. Quest (now fully merged into Dell) had many tools written in Delphi.
Roland Kossow

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Registered: 9/23/99
Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2015 1:12 PM   in response to: Daniel Sox in response to: Daniel Sox
Daniel Sox wrote:
Roland Kossow wrote:
Perhabs an option?
Please participate and fill out the survey on your willingness to buy ;-)

https://www.cybertribe.de/letsbuydelphi/

Edited by: Roland Kossow on Oct 9, 2015 8:24 AM

I think it is unlikely that the IDE business will be sold off. Remember when Embarcadero bought Codegear, one of the reasons was that their database development products were predominately written in Delphi, if that is still the case, why would they sell off and leave in uncertain hands a tool chain they are dependent on?

I do not know - but there might be quite some overlap between the original embarcadero and the Idera toolchain. They could sell and buy at the same time and form the way how the tool is further maintained and developed in collaboration with other buyers.
Guenther Schoch

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 10, 2015 5:33 AM   in response to: Daniel Sox in response to: Daniel Sox
...of the reasons was that their database development products were predominately written in Delphi,

I thought that as well. But the Embarcadero leading product ER-Studio is not written in Delphi.
And all the Idera development is very close to Microsoft (=C#).

Means that there is no synergy at all with the Delphi product line.

regards

Günther
Markus Humm

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 10, 2015 8:41 AM   in response to: Daniel Sox in response to: Daniel Sox
Am 09.10.2015 um 21:18 schrieb Daniel Sox:
Roland Kossow wrote:
Perhabs an option?
Please participate and fill out the survey on your willingness to buy ;-)

https://www.cybertribe.de/letsbuydelphi/

Edited by: Roland Kossow on Oct 9, 2015 8:24 AM

I think it is unlikely that the IDE business will be sold off. Remember when Embarcadero bought Codegear, one of the reasons was that their database development products were predominately written in Delphi, if that is still the case, why would they sell off and leave in uncertain hands a tool chain they are dependent on?

Afaik this was not the case as I remember a statement that they intend
to develop some of their products with their new inhouse tools back then.

Greetings

Markus
David Schwartz

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 11, 2015 4:35 PM   in response to: Roland Kossow in response to: Roland Kossow
I think it would be great if "someone" would purchase Delphi and related products from whomever owns them, along with the "Borland" name and IP from MicroFocus and recreate "Borland Delphi" again!
Bruce McGee

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 11, 2015 4:38 PM   in response to: David Schwartz in response to: David Schwartz
David Schwartz wrote:

I think it would be great if "someone" would purchase Delphi and
related products from whomever owns them, along with the "Borland"
name and IP from MicroFocus and recreate "Borland Delphi" again!

Why?

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Brandon Staggs

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 11, 2015 4:42 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
"Bruce McGee" wrote on Sun, 11 Oct 2015 16:38:09 -0700:

David Schwartz wrote:

I think it would be great if "someone" would purchase Delphi and
related products from whomever owns them, along with the "Borland"
name and IP from MicroFocus and recreate "Borland Delphi" again!

Why?

Beat me to it.

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
David Schwartz

Posts: 137
Registered: 8/28/00
Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 11, 2015 4:52 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
David Schwartz wrote:

I think it would be great if "someone" would purchase Delphi and
related products from whomever owns them, along with the "Borland"
name and IP from MicroFocus and recreate "Borland Delphi" again!

Why?

Because people seem to remember "Borland Delphi", but they have no clue who Embarcadero is, or that Delphi isn't a Borland product any more.

(When Borland went off and rebranded themselves as Inprise, people lost track of their language products. Then it became "CodeGear Delphi", and finally "Embarcadero Delphi". Branding is important these days.

-David
Bruce McGee

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 11, 2015 5:19 PM   in response to: David Schwartz in response to: David Schwartz
David Schwartz wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:
David Schwartz wrote:

I think it would be great if "someone" would purchase Delphi and
related products from whomever owns them, along with the "Borland"
name and IP from MicroFocus and recreate "Borland Delphi" again!

Why?

Because people seem to remember "Borland Delphi", but they have no
clue who Embarcadero is, or that Delphi isn't a Borland product any
more.

Not since 2008.

I'm over it.

(When Borland went off and rebranded themselves as Inprise, people
lost track of their language products. Then it became "CodeGear
Delphi", and finally "Embarcadero Delphi". Branding is important
these days.

I'm more concerned about how they treat the product, and Embarcadero is
miles ahead of Borland in their final years. The brain trust at Borland
has a lot of crap to answer for.

So if someone ever does bring back the name, the first person to even
mention ALM is going to get an earful.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
David Schwartz

Posts: 137
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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 11, 2015 5:40 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

I'm more concerned about how they treat the product, and Embarcadero is
miles ahead of Borland in their final years. The brain trust at Borland
has a lot of crap to answer for.

So if someone ever does bring back the name, the first person to even
mention ALM is going to get an earful.

What in the Sam Hill are you talking about?

All I'm referring to is the "Borland" BRAND NAME, which MicroFocus acquired along with Attachmate.
Bruce McGee

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Re: Let's buy delphi
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  Posted: Oct 11, 2015 5:49 PM   in response to: David Schwartz in response to: David Schwartz
David Schwartz wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:

I'm more concerned about how they treat the product, and
Embarcadero is miles ahead of Borland in their final years. The
brain trust at Borland has a lot of crap to answer for.

So if someone ever does bring back the name, the first person to
even mention ALM is going to get an earful.

What in the Sam Hill are you talking about?

All I'm referring to is the "Borland" BRAND NAME, which MicroFocus
acquired along with Attachmate.

Which has been tainted.

I still find it ironic and a little satisfying that a company that
spent its last years actively de-emphasising their their own developer
tools division fell into relative obscurity after selling them off,
only to be bought by a company best known for its COBOL compiler.

But maybe that's just me...

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
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