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Thread: Where is the HELPful help?


This question is not answered. Helpful answers available: 2. Correct answers available: 1.


Permlink Replies: 28 - Last Post: Sep 12, 2015 12:41 PM Last Post By: Free Dorfman
Free Dorfman

Posts: 139
Registered: 2/4/12
Where is the HELPful help?  
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  Posted: Sep 9, 2015 12:06 PM
I have been using Delphi (Turbo Pascal) since the mid-80's. Recently I jumped from Delphi 6 to XE7 (with a wasted $900 on XE2 along the way).

It seems every new task is a fresh nightmare.

Where is the really useful documentation?

The help for TSpinBox doesn't mention the distinction between OnChange and OnChangeTracking. It's buried in OnChangeTracking which one might never look at without already knowing...

The help for TPopup, on the other hand, does set out the basics of using a TPopup. However, no example. Using popups in any app (mobile or otherwise) is almost a foregone conclusion. I place a TPopup on a form and I can't even move it (short of changing the Position property). If I place controls in it (by dragging them in the Structure View) they're not visible at all. Where's the help for all of this?

I have come across almost no really useful samples. Not snippets; not full-blown apps.

Am I missing something?

Am I the only one here?

Why has Embarcadero not deployed a dozen (or a hundred) apps? Downloadable by its users, with the source code available online?

Why is the help so outdated?

Why are "open in new tab", "copy", "save bookmark" and similar features not even in the help?

Why is the help segmented into different sets/libraries such that sometimes searches for things which are in the help appear as if they're not?

Why are there not more samples (again, small apps or just snippets) that fully demonstrate things like popups in mobile?

WHAT ABOUT: An XE Wiki that grows as users add content. So that 5,000 people don't have to struggle through the same issue (e.g. how to do a popup/modal dialog for mobile)?

Should it really be taking half a day (or a week) to accomplish each new thing?
I never had issues like this when using a component for the first time under Delphi 6 or earlier.

Again: Am I the only one? And: What am I missing?

-Thanks for your thoughts here!
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 9, 2015 12:51 PM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
Free Dorfman wrote:

Why has Embarcadero not deployed a dozen (or a hundred) apps?
Downloadable by its users, with the source code available online?

Have you checked the Samples directory?

They are online at

I also found this:

http://docwiki.embarcadero.com/CodeExamples/XE8/en/Main_Page

Why is the help so outdated?

Is it? It's being constantly updated, and has really genuinely
improved over the last few years.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun

Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 9, 2015 1:12 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:


They are online at

Sorry, it's here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/radstudiodemos/

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Free Dorfman

Posts: 139
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Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 9, 2015 2:48 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
I've seen those samples.

Admittedly, most of my issues are related to mobile (just Android for now).

No example (again) of a dialog/modal form. How can 8 versions of XE with mobile support STILL not have working examples of dialog/modal forms? I just don't get it,

But -- seriously -- where is the user-growing (wiki-esque) stuff? A wiki-like place that is constantly being updated (and vetted, ideally) by users who encounter issues, work through them, and can then pass on their insights to the rest of us?

Even the forums - which by default only search the last 90 days - aren't really geared towards a GROWING store of knowledge.

From the couple of hours I've spent today looking for examples and the like here, I've encountered a number of people griping about the help...

Markus Humm

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Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit] [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 10, 2015 11:02 AM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
Am 10.09.2015 um 00:01 schrieb Free Dorfman:
I've seen those samples.

Admittedly, most of my issues are related to mobile (just Android for now).

No example (again) of a dialog/modal form. How can 8 versions of XE with mobile support STILL not have working examples of dialog/modal forms? I just don't get it,

But -- seriously -- where is the user-growing (wiki-esque) stuff? A wiki-like place that is constantly being updated (and vetted, ideally) by users who encounter issues, work through them, and can then pass on their insights to the rest of us?

Even the forums - which by default only search the last 90 days - aren't really geared towards a GROWING store of knowledge.

From the couple of hours I've spent today looking for examples and the like here, I've encountered a number of people griping about the help...


Hello,

1. thare are no modal forms on Android at least. If you add a 2nd form
and try to call it with ShowModal you'll get an exception.
Even TMessageDlg for Android is not modal!

2. The forums had quite a few more or less regular outtages in the
last 1-1,5 years. They got fixed about 2-3 weeks ago now and since
then they're running stable.

3. What kind of app do you want to build? Maybe we can steer you in
abetter direction if you tell us that.

Greetings

Markus
Free Dorfman

Posts: 139
Registered: 2/4/12
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit] [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 1:33 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
I have a path I'm heading down here.

PLEASE tell me if this sounds good - or ridiculous - or something in between.

Keep in mind, I'm looking for these Mopups to:
*be on top of the main form
*without covering the whole screen
*with a border (frame/outline) to make it look "on top"
*with the main form disabled
*until the user clicks [Close]

I am creating my own class: TMopop ("mopup" = modal popup) that descends from TControl.

Whenever I need modal behavior, I am going to (on the MainForm, or the "latest" Mopup):
--set Opacity := 0.8;
--set Enabled := false;

On the CloseBtn of the Mopup, I am going to restore the Opacity & Enabled settings for the "underlying" TControl.

I selected TControl because it's where IContainerObject first appears in the hierarchy.

Does this sound like a decent approach? Again, I am wondering what the "normal" way of doing this is. If there is a "normal" way...

-Many Continuing Thanks
Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 556
Registered: 10/14/04
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit] [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 11:22 PM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
you need to think differently for mobile re forms
there are some good example on design and white papers by sarina du pont (not sure if I got that name correct(
Mike Margerum

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Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Where is the HELPful help?  
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  Posted: Sep 9, 2015 3:27 PM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
Free Dorfman wrote:
I have been using Delphi (Turbo Pascal) since the mid-80's. Recently I jumped from Delphi 6 to XE7 (with a wasted $900 on XE2 along the way).

It seems every new task is a fresh nightmare.

Where is the really useful documentation?

The help for TSpinBox doesn't mention the distinction between OnChange and OnChangeTracking. It's buried in OnChangeTracking which one might never look at without already knowing...

Same with FMX TEdit. who knew to use changeTracking. I encountered these types of issues over and over again....

I spent about 4 weeks immersed in Firemonkey determined to use it to target Windows, Mac, and iOS all with one code base and hopefully one set of forms. I got about 80% of the way with a subset of our app in FM and pulled the plug. It was a death by 1000 cuts. I've decided to ditch FM and instead use VCL for windows development and swift/XCode for mac and iOS development. Most of this happened in XE8 which took a year off my life. That was one bad release.

I've already got most of the Swift code running to replace the code I wrote during that 4 weeks and it took 6 (long) days on an iPad. It's beautiful and functional. Something I can be proud off. The FM app was an embarrassment and I regret wasting 4 weeks of my life trying to make it work. Suffice it to say the dream of one code base and one set of forms that runs well on all of the platforms is a pipe dream. I really wanted it to work because it is difficult context switching between the two platforms all the time.

Delphi/VCL is a fantastic windows development tool and i'll continue using it for my Windows development. I'm encouraged to see m$, in windows 10, finally accepting the reality that win32/64 code is here to stay and making it a 1st class citizen. This was a factor in me feeling comfortable with jettisoning FM as I saw the VCL as being deprecated. I'm really pleased to see the support added in Delphi 10 for Windows development and it's an overall terrific release. I can finally go back to building a top flight windows experience not having to worry about supporting other platforms with my Delphi FM code.

I think if EMB would stop deluding themselves into thinking they can serve all platforms with one set of universal controls in one giant form with a rats nest of live bindings this could have worked. Having different sets of controls for phones, tablets, and desktop is necessary. They may overlap and that's fine. It seems like wrapping the native controls is the way to go and I see they are slowly doing that. a VCL for UIKit would be awesome. EDIT: I dont mean a literal VCL. I mean a fast an lean VCL type framework that lightly wraps UIKIT

I'm not interested in a public rebuke of this post. I have no axe to grind and I spent 4 weeks with the tool so I feel like I gave it a fair shake. I'm sure I missed some information, but thats because it's so hard to find.

I like Delphi and I wanted this to work. I've been doing iOS dev for 5 years so I didn't need to use Delphi. I wanted to. I suppose if Delphi was the only tool I was willing to learn and I had to also target Android it might be worth all the pain. It is getting better with every release.

Edited by: Mike Margerum on Sep 9, 2015 3:27 PM

Edited by: Mike Margerum on Sep 9, 2015 3:33 PM
Brian Hamilton ...

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Re: Where is the HELPful help?  
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  Posted: Sep 9, 2015 5:05 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
this is another example of saying one thing and then saying another in the next sentance (ie that delphi is getting better with each release and adding the native options to the controls is good)
if people dont want to wait for the incremental improvements for Mobile, then thats ok..but why say all the bad things and then say its getting better?
who is it going to help by saying about things in the past?

just my 2 cents
Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 556
Registered: 10/14/04
Re: Where is the HELPful help?  
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  Posted: Sep 10, 2015 2:26 PM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
just to note, for me,
Delphi Seattle OSX is much improved in debugging to remote Mac ...runs to line and to error in source code for me now with my large OSX program, when it would not in prior IDE versions
so huge improvement (and I dont need to restat the compiler regularly either)
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 10, 2015 11:11 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Am 10.09.2015 um 00:34 schrieb Mike Margerum:
Free Dorfman wrote:
I have been using Delphi (Turbo Pascal) since the mid-80's. Recently I jumped from Delphi 6 to XE7 (with a wasted $900 on XE2 along the way).

It seems every new task is a fresh nightmare.

Where is the really useful documentation?

The help for TSpinBox doesn't mention the distinction between OnChange and OnChangeTracking. It's buried in OnChangeTracking which one might never look at without already knowing...

Same with FMX TEdit. who knew to use changeTracking. I encountered these types of issues over and over again....

I spent about 4 weeks immersed in Firemonkey determined to use it to target Windows, Mac, and iOS all with one code base and hopefully one set of forms. I got about 80% of the way with a subset of our app in FM and pulled the plug. It was a death by 1000 cuts. I've decided to ditch FM and instead use VCL for windows development and swift/XCode for mac and iOS development. Most of this happened in XE8 which took a year off my life. That was one bad release.

I've already got most of the Swift code running to replace the code I wrote during that 4 weeks and it took 6 (long) days on an iPad. It's beautiful and functional. Something I can be proud off. The FM app was an embarrassment and I regret wasting 4 weeks of my life trying to make it work. Suffice it to say the dream of one code base and one set of forms that runs well on all of the platforms is a pipe dream. I really wanted it to work because it is difficult context switching between the two platfor
ms all the time.

Delphi/VCL is a fantastic windows development tool and i'll continue using it for my Windows development. I'm encouraged to see m$, in windows 10, finally accepting the reality that win32/64 code is here to stay and making it a 1st class citizen. This was a factor in me feeling comfortable with jettisoning FM as I saw the VCL as being deprecated. I'm really pleased to see the support added in Delphi 10 for Windows development and it's an overall terrific release. I can finally go back to building a to
p flight windows experience not having to worry about supporting other platforms with my Delphi FM code.

I think if EMB would stop deluding themselves into thinking they can serve all platforms with one set of universal controls in one giant form with a rats nest of live bindings this could have worked. Having different sets of controls for phones, tablets, and desktop is necessary. They may overlap and that's fine. It seems like wrapping the native controls is the way to go and I see they are slowly doing that. a VCL for UIKit would be awesome. EDIT: I dont mean a literal VCL. I mean a fast an lean V
CL type framework that lightly wraps UIKIT

I'm not interested in a public rebuke of this post. I have no axe to grind and I spent 4 weeks with the tool so I feel like I gave it a fair shake. I'm sure I missed some information, but thats because it's so hard to find.

I like Delphi and I wanted this to work. I've been doing iOS dev for 5 years so I didn't need to use Delphi. I wanted to. I suppose if Delphi was the only tool I was willing to learn and I had to also target Android it might be worth all the pain. It is getting better with every release.

Edited by: Mike Margerum on Sep 9, 2015 3:27 PM

Edited by: Mike Margerum on Sep 9, 2015 3:33 PM

Hello,

1. not all FMX controls are offered on mobile.

2. for iOS you can even use the native controls in some cases now and
D10 Seattle expanded that by adding further native controls for iOS.

3. Don't know about iOS as I'm not using that one, but nobody forces
you to pack everything on one single form. The app I'm currently
working on has about 6 forms already. Just one of them is auto
created.

4. Ok, Livebinding doesn't have that good reputation. But nobody forces
you to use it. I got around it so far.

5. My Android app has one single GUI for portrait and landscape. Yes, a
few things were a bit of work, but in Java afaik I would have ended
up creating more views for portrait/landscape and different
resolutions. I still manage to get by with one single view.

6. Having one GUI for desktop and mobile afaik works only for a small
number of apps. Sharing logic might work better.

7. The help: it got already better that it was in D2005/D2006, but
yes I still miss a lot and often I find links to other help pages
which then more or less tell me the same thing. And still too many
topics have either only some mostly useless inherited help topic or
a too short single sentence one. Such texts like "Form family sets
the form family of the form" (quoted from my head) still leave me
clueless about what a form family actually is...
The biggest issue I currently have with help as of XE8+ is, that
while converting to CHM the help is tied to the IDE. When the IDE is
busy help might not be accessible.

Greetings

Markus
John Kaster


Posts: 913
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Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 10, 2015 12:59 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Markus Humm wrote:

Ok, Livebinding doesn't have that good reputation. But nobody forces
you to use it. I got around it so far.

How do you get around it? Have you created your own binding mechanism,
or explicitly populate values to/from controls via code?

--
John Kaster http://johnkaster.wordpress.com
Software solutions
Eli M

Posts: 1,346
Registered: 11/9/13
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 10, 2015 8:55 PM   in response to: John Kaster in response to: John Kaster
I just use INI files, TStringList, and JSON. Loop through the data and fill the controls. If I had to fill a grid and move through a recordset I would probably use LiveBindings though for that specific action.

JsonDataObjects is super fast in benchmarks:
https://github.com/ahausladen/JsonDataObjects

Recently started using DuckDuckDelphi which can help a lot with code automation:
https://github.com/deadserious/duckduckdelphi

John Kaster wrote:
How do you get around it? Have you created your own binding mechanism,
or explicitly populate values to/from controls via code?
John Kaster


Posts: 913
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 12:31 PM   in response to: Eli M in response to: Eli M
Eli M wrote:

I just use INI files, TStringList, and JSON. Loop through the data
and fill the controls.

Thanks for the response.

If I had to fill a grid and move through a
recordset I would probably use LiveBindings though for that specific
action.

If LiveBindings doesn't meet my performance requirements I'm probably
going to end up implementing something with RTTI binding to JSON
results.

JsonDataObjects is super fast in benchmarks:
https://github.com/ahausladen/JsonDataObjects

Thanks, I know about that. I intend to compare it to the latest
System.JSON.* implementation in Seattle, but I haven't gotten to that
yet.

Recently started using DuckDuckDelphi which can help a lot with code
automation: https://github.com/deadserious/duckduckdelphi

Yeah, that's handy. Thanks for the reminder. Has lots of functionality
similar to things I've written for Delphi as well, but more accessible
:)

--
John Kaster http://johnkaster.wordpress.com
Software solutions

Eli M

Posts: 1,346
Registered: 11/9/13
Re: Where is the HELPful help?  
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  Posted: Sep 10, 2015 8:43 PM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
600+ Firemonkey tips and tricks for XE5 through Delphi 10:
http://www.fmxexpress.com/

940+ Firemonkey demos:
https://github.com/fmxexpress/firemonkey/

75+ Skill Sprint videos:
http://www.embarcadero.com/landing-pages/skill-sprints
Eli M

Posts: 1,346
Registered: 11/9/13
Re: Where is the HELPful help?  
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  Posted: Sep 10, 2015 8:50 PM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
The forum has a limit on the number of links per post.

2500+ Delphi IOS/Android developer community:
https://plus.google.com/communities/107332833200594894879

60+ tutorial and showcase videos:
http://www.fmxuniversity.com/

Modern Firemonkey promotional site:
http://www.firemonkeyx.com/
John Kaster


Posts: 913
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Where is the HELPful help?  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 12:32 PM   in response to: Eli M in response to: Eli M
Eli M wrote:

The forum has a limit on the number of links per post.

I'd forgotten about that. I wonder if that's enforced for NNTP?

--
John Kaster http://johnkaster.wordpress.com
Software solutions
Free Dorfman

Posts: 139
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Re: Where is the HELPful help?  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 1:40 PM   in response to: Eli M in response to: Eli M
Eli: Thanks SO MUCH for these links!

Seriously!
Eli M

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Registered: 11/9/13
Re: Where is the HELPful help?  
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  Posted: Sep 10, 2015 9:06 PM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
The main thing to remember about Firemonkey is that almost every control is basically just a TRectangle that you can show/hide and it can be a child of every other control. Popups and showmodal aren't cross platform. You can mimic a popup by just use a TCalloutPanel and Showing it in the desired spot. Forms cover the whole screen on mobile devices (effectively a modal dialog).

Incomplete list of a lot of third party FMX libraries:
http://www.fmxexpress.com/awesome-firemonkey/

Millions of lines of Android interface files in Object Pascal:
https://github.com/FMXExpress/android-object-pascal-wrapper

StackOverflow for Delphi and Firemonkey:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/firemonkey

To effectively search the Embarcadero docs use Google directly and search for something like:
delphi docwiki TButton
Free Dorfman

Posts: 139
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Re: Where is the HELPful help?  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 1:46 PM   in response to: Eli M in response to: Eli M
Eli M wrote:
The main thing to remember about Firemonkey is that almost every control is basically just a TRectangle that you can show/hide and it can be a child of every other control. Popups and showmodal aren't cross platform. You can mimic a popup by just use a TCalloutPanel and Showing it in the desired spot. Forms cover the whole screen on mobile devices (effectively a modal dialog).

I have a path I'm heading down here.

PLEASE tell me if this sounds good - or ridiculous - or something in between.

Keep in mind, I'm looking for these "popups" to:
*be on top of the main form
*without covering the whole screen
*with a border (frame/outline) to make it look "on top"
*with the main form disabled
*until the user clicks [Close]

I am creating my own class: TMopop ("mopup" = modal popup) that descends from TControl.

Whenever I need modal behavior, I am going to (on the MainForm, or the "latest" Mopup):
--set Opacity := 0.8;
--set Enabled := false;

On the CloseBtn of the Mopup, I am going to restore the Opacity & Enabled settings for the "underlying" TControl.

I selected TControl because it's where IContainerObject first appears in the hierarchy.

NOTE: I am actually going to create the main form with FullPan: TPanel, aligned Client and behind everything else. This is actually where (on the main form) I'll be changing Opacity & Enabled.

Does this sound like a decent approach? Again, I am wondering what the "normal" way of doing this is. If there is a "normal" way...

-Many Continuing Thanks
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 1:53 PM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
Free Dorfman wrote:


I am creating my own class: TMopop ("mopup" = modal popup) that
descends from TControl.

The first thing I'd tell you to do is to call the class "TModalPopup"
instead of "TMopop". What's a Mopop"?

The second thing I'd tell you is that what you are trying to do is
utterly foreign to Android.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Free Dorfman

Posts: 139
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Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 2:55 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
Free Dorfman wrote:


I am creating my own class: TMopop ("mopup" = modal popup) that
descends from TControl.

The first thing I'd tell you to do is to call the class "TModalPopup"
instead of "TMopop". What's a Mopop"?

The second thing I'd tell you is that what you are trying to do is
utterly foreign to Android.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun

Nick,

How are people doing "modal popups" in mobile (Android) then? I mean (of course) something that "looks and feels" like a modal popup without actual being one.

If I want to "popup" a form for user input that will affect the underlying (main form) controls, what's my best approach?

Is it to simply Show a second form? If so, how do I:
*have it not cover the whole screen?
*disable the underlying main form (possibly other "popups" as well)?

-Thanks
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 3:49 PM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
Free Dorfman wrote:

How are people doing "modal popups" in mobile (Android) then?

Depends on what you are trying to do. There is "toast" which is an
informative only popup, which gives a message to the user and
disappears after a given time.

Otherwise, you simply design your app without modal dialogs. The
"normal" way to do that is with slideable page controls, giving many
looks for the main window. There are demo apps (hehe) that come with
Delphi that show how to do that.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Free Dorfman

Posts: 139
Registered: 2/4/12
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 4:14 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
Free Dorfman wrote:

How are people doing "modal popups" in mobile (Android) then?

Depends on what you are trying to do. There is "toast" which is an
informative only popup, which gives a message to the user and
disappears after a given time.

Otherwise, you simply design your app without modal dialogs. The
"normal" way to do that is with slideable page controls, giving many
looks for the main window. There are demo apps (hehe) that come with
Delphi that show how to do that.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun

(a) I don't know what you mean by "toast". Is that just an informal name or is that something code-based.

(b) Slideable page controls: (1) Can you direct me to the demo? [I cannot find it.] (2) Will that give me something that does not cover the whole screen? [Specifically, that I can make any size and place it anywhere "above" the main form?]

-Thanks
Nick Hodges

Posts: 2,414
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 4:25 PM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
Free Dorfman wrote:

(a) I don't know what you mean by "toast". Is that just an informal
name or is that something code-based.

"Toast" is the actual name for it. In the original version, it looked
like a piece of toast I guess.


(b) Slideable page controls: (1) Can you direct me to the demo? [I
cannot find it.] (2) Will that give me something that does not cover
the whole screen? [Specifically, that I can make any size and place
it anywhere "above" the main form?]

File|New|Other|Multi-device Application.

Then choose: Tabbed with Navigation.

That will create one for you.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Free Dorfman

Posts: 139
Registered: 2/4/12
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 5:03 PM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:

File|New|Other|Multi-device Application.

Then choose: Tabbed with Navigation.

That will create one for you.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun

Am I not making myself clear here?

I want this "modal popup" to appear (or look like it's) ON TOP OF and WITHIN the main form:


-::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-
-::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-
-::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-
-::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-
-::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-
-::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-
-:::::::::::::----------::::::::-
-:::::::::::::XXXXX::::::::-
-:::::::::::::XXXXX::::::::-
-:::::::::::::XXXXX::::::::-
-:::::::::::::----------::::::::-
-:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-
-:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-

:::::: = main form
XX = popup

Tabbed with Navigation is nothing like this...

Eli M

Posts: 1,346
Registered: 11/9/13
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 11, 2015 6:08 PM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
On IOS/Windows(OSX? too) TForm can be transparent which allows you to do what you are talking about with a normal TForm as a dialog. On Android TForm doesn't support that transparent property.

For progress and activity dialogs you can use these (TfgProgressDialog, TfgActivityDialog) (Android/IOS only.. deploy the below solution for Windows/OSX):
http://fire-monkey.ru/topic/83-fgx-indikatciia-khoda-vypolneniia-dlitelnykh-operatci/

The reason to use them would be if you use TWebBrowser or any other native controls which sit above everything else in the ZOrder. Another alternative is just to hide those controls when your dialogs are visible and replace them with a bitmap created with .MakeScreenshot;. Also they are fast and you don't have to worry about them blocking anything.

JVESoft also has a component called TJVEShade which does something like the native dialogs as well.

There are all kinds of other ways to do what you want. They mainly consist of using a TRectangle that is Fill color Black and Opacity 0.80 set to Align Content covering everything on the form. And then your actual visual dialog control (whether it is a TCalloutPanel or a TTabControl or whatever it is) is above that. It can not be a child of the TRectangle because the Opacity would also apply to the dialog. As long as your background control is HitTest = True clicks won't fall through to the controls beneath. Be aware that it won't cover a TMainMenu on Windows though.

Which brings us to Frames. You can easily use a TFrame with the TRectangle as the background on the TFrame and your dialog control floating above it (both are parented to the TFrame). The TFrame is transparent so you can show and hide it on your main TForm to achieve the dialog effect.

The built in TMultiView control does the background shader thing automatically like this as well but you only get a panel on either side of the screen or as a popup.

There is also this TFrameStand component which seems like it may automate the process a bit (I haven't tried it):
http://www.andreamagni.eu/wp/2015/09/tframestand-component-and-pascon-conference/

There is also this idea which I haven't tried of re-parenting a TLayout from another TForm to the main form (I think that is what it does):
http://www.tdevrocks.com.br/2015/09/09/tutorial-navegacao-entre-formularios-nova-tecnica/
Markus Humm

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Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 12, 2015 7:32 AM   in response to: Free Dorfman in response to: Free Dorfman
Am 11.09.2015 um 23:55 schrieb Free Dorfman:
Nick Hodges wrote:
Free Dorfman wrote:


I am creating my own class: TMopop ("mopup" = modal popup) that
descends from TControl.

The first thing I'd tell you to do is to call the class "TModalPopup"
instead of "TMopop". What's a Mopop"?

The second thing I'd tell you is that what you are trying to do is
utterly foreign to Android.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun

Nick,

How are people doing "modal popups" in mobile (Android) then? I mean (of course) something that "looks and feels" like a modal popup without actual being one.

If I want to "popup" a form for user input that will affect the underlying (main form) controls, what's my best approach?

Is it to simply Show a second form? If so, how do I:
*have it not cover the whole screen?
*disable the underlying main form (possibly other "popups" as well)?

-Thanks

Nick is right: without knowing more about what you want to stick into
your popup we might not be able to help properly.

A TCombobox for isntance generates sort of a modal popup as well when
you tap on it so selec something.

Greetings

Markus
Free Dorfman

Posts: 139
Registered: 2/4/12
Re: Where is the HELPful help? [Edit]  
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  Posted: Sep 12, 2015 12:41 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Hey all.

Thanks for all the thoughts, comments, suggestions & links.

It was quite a ride. I learned some valuable stuff along the way.

What I was looking for all along - quite simply - was TFrame.

TFrame. That easy.
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