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Thread: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?



Permlink Replies: 64 - Last Post: Oct 25, 2014 12:35 PM Last Post By: Rudy Velthuis (...
Marjan Venema

Posts: 12
Registered: 4/28/08
Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 19, 2014 11:57 PM
This morning I received an email asking me to review Danielle Teti's Delphi Cookbook.

I would be happy too, except the sender implied that they had found my email address on my website,

    |   I came across your website and found your insightful posts about Delphi.


and I know with absolute 100% certainty, that the email address they used isn't anywhere on my website. In fact, the only external parties I have used that email address with has been Embarcadero and 1 or 2 Delphi component vendors... (Yup, I don't have much external contact at my employer). I don't see how these component vendors could benefit from getting the Delphi Cookbook reviewed, so my main suspect is Embarcadero.

My profile here on EDN explicitely states

    | Email visibility: Do not publish my email address even if I post messages on the site


If it was Embarcadero then to say I am displeased is an understatement.

I have tried to find an email address to contact developer relations, to ask for clarification. Unfortunately to no avail and contacting support still suffers from the same out of diskspace as edn itself did up until just now.

Could not load file or assembly 'CDN.GetPublished, Version=1.0.4649.35951, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null' or one of its dependencies. There is not enough space on the disk. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80070070)

Btw, no idea why "contacting support" would use CDN.GetPublished, but hey I don't work at Embarcadero...

Does anybody have a public email address for Embarcadero's developer relations?

And for that matter: does anybody have a link to EDN's terms of service? Trying to find anything on the Embarcadero's website seems beyond me this morning.

Thanks, Marjan

Edited by: Marjan Venema on Oct 20, 2014 8:57 AM
Bruce McGee

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties? [Edit]
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 3:18 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
Marjan Venema wrote:

If it was Embarcadero

I would be very surprised

*Does anybody have a public email address for Embarcadero's developer
relations?*

You could try their contact page. This is primarily for North America,
but there are regional specific links on the left.

http://www.embarcadero.com/company/contact-us

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Marjan Venema

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties? [Edit]
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 4:04 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
You could try their contact page. This is primarily for North America,
but there are regional specific links on the left.

I did. It produced internal server errors because of a full disk this morning.
Seems ok now.
Jeff Dyer

Posts: 33
Registered: 8/9/07
Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 3:24 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
The question you should be asking is whether anyone else here has been asked to review the Delphi Cookbook...and only then if lots of people have, start worrying about EDN.

Marjan Venema wrote:
This morning I received an email asking me to review Danielle Teti's Delphi Cookbook.

I would be happy too, except the sender implied that they had found my email address on my website,

Thanks, Marjan

Edited by: Marjan Venema on Oct 20, 2014 8:57 AM
Marjan Venema

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 4:07 AM   in response to: Jeff Dyer in response to: Jeff Dyer
Jeff Dyer wrote:
The question you should be asking is whether anyone else here has been asked to review the Delphi Cookbook...and only then if lots of people have, start worrying about EDN.

Perhaps, but as stated, apart from internal use at my employer, my work email address is only known to Embarcadero and a few component vendors. If they did not pass it on themselves (which I think pretty unlikely hence the question instead of a statement), they may have been hacked. In which case I would still worry about Embarcadero ...
Bruce McGee

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 5:22 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
Marjan Venema wrote:
Jeff Dyer wrote:
The question you should be asking is whether anyone else here has been asked to review the Delphi Cookbook...and only then if lots of people have, start worrying about EDN.

Perhaps, but as stated, apart from internal use at my employer, my work email address is only known to Embarcadero and a few component vendors. If they did not pass it on themselves (which I think pretty unlikely hence the question instead of a statement), they may have been hacked. In which case I would still worry about Embarcadero ...

You could also write back and how they got your contact information.

--
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Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Marjan Venema

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 6:22 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
You could also write back and how they got your contact information.

I have
Robert Dawson

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 5:44 PM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
<Marjan Venema> wrote

Perhaps, but as stated, apart from internal use at my employer, my work
email address is only known to Embarcadero and a few component vendors.

Guessable by employer's convention? (Mine at work is bdawson@~ . Not much to
figure out.

Amazing what robots can do. I have a gmail account I've never used, and it
gets about 600 spams a month.

bobD
Marjan Venema

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:38 AM   in response to: Robert Dawson in response to: Robert Dawson
Guessable by employer's convention? (Mine at work is bdawson@~ . Not much to
figure out.

Certainly. If you know my employer...

Outside of these newsgroups that is not information that is publicly available. Never realized that those "Marjan Venema <x@x.x> got out in the open through the newsgroup archives...

Edited by: Marjan Venema on Oct 21, 2014 4:38 PM
Jason Sweby

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 6:02 AM   in response to: Jeff Dyer in response to: Jeff Dyer
Jeff Dyer wrote:
The question you should be asking is whether anyone else here has been asked to review the Delphi Cookbook...and only then if lots of people have, start worrying about EDN.

Interesting. Yes, I have also been contacted regarding this, but now I come to think about it, they contacted me on an email address that only EMBT know about. I assumed they'd found me via my Delphi blog, which I have now realised uses a different email address.

Worrying.
> Rich <

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 7:25 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
Marjan Venema wrote:
This morning I received an email asking me to review Danielle Teti's Delphi Cookbook.

I would be happy too, except the sender implied that they had found my email address on my website,

    |   I came across your website and found your insightful posts about Delphi.


and I know with absolute 100% certainty, that the email address they used isn't anywhere on my website. In fact, the only external parties I have used that email address with has been Embarcadero and 1 or 2 Delphi component vendors... (Yup, I don't have much external contact at my employer). I don't see how these component vendors could benefit from getting the Delphi Cookbook reviewed, so my main suspect is Embarcadero.

This is one of the reasons I've stopped using email. While I would not care if EMB sent me emails. The situation of not knowing who, what, when, where, and why of emails made me realize email has become a game that I don't want to play. I remember getting emails from companies about products that I was interested in so I would respond asking for more information. But I wouldn't get any. The company didn't even follow up with interested prospects!
Jeff Dyer

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 7:50 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
This is one of the reasons I've stopped using email. While I would not care if EMB sent me emails. The situation of not knowing who, what, when, where, and why of emails made me realize email has become a game that I don't want to play.

And you are a software developer?

I would buy myself a nice tinfoil hat if I were you. ;)

Edited by: Jeff Dyer on Oct 20, 2014 8:01 AM
> Rich <

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 1:04 PM   in response to: Jeff Dyer in response to: Jeff Dyer
Jeff Dyer wrote:

I would buy myself a nice tinfoil hat if I were you. ;)

Can I style mine after yours? :-)

I tracked my time involved with email including time handling tasks that arose from emails. The ROI was terrible. I'm much more productive now. I don't get caught up in things that are a waste of my time. I don't get bunches of useless ads. I don't have people telling me their getting emails from my email address when I'm not sending any. When I discuss things with people. At least now they have taken the time to think before the discussion starts. No more one letter words like "r" for are and "u" for you!

Also someone can easily send out a couple dozen emails, from a bar, just to make it look like they are busy doing something of value. When in reality they are putting off their work.

You go ahead and keep following the sheep. Soon enough you'll go off the cliff.
Quentin Correll


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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 2:55 PM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
,

| When I discuss things with people. At least now they have taken the
| time to think before the discussion starts.

So how do you "discuss things with people" when they are not physically
present?

--

Q

1.19.1.372 (Q's Broken Toolbar.)

> Rich <

Posts: 171
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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 3:57 PM   in response to: Quentin Correll in response to: Quentin Correll
Quentin Correll wrote:

So how do you "discuss things with people" when they are not physically
present?

Any man who where's a 10 gallon hat doesn't need to be asking questions like that.
Frederick Wilt

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 4:47 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
> Rich < wrote:
Any man who where's a 10 gallon hat doesn't need to be asking questions like that.

Where's???

I think I understand why email could be a problem.
> Rich <

Posts: 171
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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:26 AM   in response to: Frederick Wilt in response to: Frederick Wilt
Frederick Wilt wrote:
> Rich < wrote:
Any man who where's a 10 gallon hat doesn't need to be asking questions like that.

Where's???

I think I understand why email could be a problem.

If you plan to make fun of me because of my condition you can just stop right there. Yes I used "where" instead of "wear".
Quentin Correll


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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 12:43 PM   in response to: Frederick Wilt in response to: Frederick Wilt
Frederick,

| Where's???
|
| I think I understand why email could be a problem.

ROFL!

--

Q

1.19.1.372 (Q's Broken Toolbar.)

John Treder

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 8:07 PM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Rich wrote:
I tracked my time involved with email including time handling tasks that arose from emails. The ROI was terrible. I'm much more productive now. I don't get caught up in things that are a waste of my time. I don't get bunches of useless ads. I don't have people telling me their getting emails from my email address when I'm not sending any. When I discuss things with people. At least now they have taken the time to think before the discussion starts. No more one letter words like "r" for are and "u" for you
!
So here you are wasting time in Non-Tech. Amazing. <evil g>

--
nhoJ
> Rich <

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:30 AM   in response to: John Treder in response to: John Treder
John Treder wrote:

So here you are wasting time in Non-Tech. Amazing. <evil g>

Sometimes there are good discussions here.
Brandon Staggs

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 11:47 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
"> Rich" wrote on Mon, 20 Oct 2014 07:25:04 -0700:

The situation of not knowing who, what, when, where, and why of emails made me realize email has become a game that I don't want to play.

My keyboard has a delete key.

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
> Rich <

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 1:08 PM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
Brandon Staggs wrote:

My keyboard has a delete key.

I know what you mean. But I didn't make the decision lightly. I took the time to see just how effective email was at helping me reach objectives. None of my objectives include pissing the day away. But strangely enough I get more done now AND I have time during my day that I can waste.
Jeff Dyer

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 3:50 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
I took the time to see just how effective email was at helping me reach objectives.

Have you ever thought it just might be you?

> Rich <

Posts: 171
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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:34 AM   in response to: Jeff Dyer in response to: Jeff Dyer
Jeff Dyer wrote:

Have you ever thought it just might be you?

Well yes Jeff. I know it's me. I like to use tools and processes that help me to be more productive instead of wasting my time. I go to the trouble of analyzing the tools and processes I use to ensure I'm using the right ones. Email, just like the web, is becoming the focus for foolishness. People spend hours and days on the web doing nothing. I'm not worth a billion dollars so I can't do those kinds of things. I need to try to stay efficient and effective.

Don't get me wrong some people use email to get some things done. But that doesn't mean everyone is using it wisely and I can't waste time with that.
Mike Margerum

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties? [Edit]
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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 3:15 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Well yes Jeff. I know it's me. I like to use tools and processes that help me to be more productive instead of wasting my time.

Email is a waste, but posting to Delphi non tech is a productive use of
your time?

> Rich <

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties? [Edit]
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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 9:36 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

Email is a waste, but posting to Delphi non tech is a productive use of
your time?

That just depends on the thread. Sometimes it's just chit-chat for enjoyment hence the :-) or <g> in some of the posts.

But since I haven't been using email I do have more time free time in my day.
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties? [Edit]
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  Posted: Oct 25, 2014 12:35 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

Well yes Jeff. I know it's me. I like to use tools and processes
that help me to be more productive instead of wasting my time.

Email is a waste, but posting to Delphi non tech is a productive use
of your time?


LOL!

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
-- Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
Michael McFarland

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 9:01 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
Marjan Venema wrote:
so my main suspect is Embarcadero.
Thanks, Marjan

Here's something worth checking: Off on the left click the link for "Your Control Panel", then click Edit so you see "Edit Your User Profile". See if the value you have for Username is your email. I think the forums actually display your full name most of the time, but over on the right there is a "Popular Threads" category that shows the username.

I noticed my email was showing up in the Popular Threads category, and I was a little frustrated/shocked. Turns out the problem was this extra tiny note in the create a user account page: "EDN login name defaults to your email address unless you enter a new login name here." The best part is you can't change you're username/login name so you have to create a new account.

Not sure if this is your problem but it could be. I haven't seen your email, but ever since I noticed this problem I've noticed quite a few email addresses showing up in the Popular Threads section.

Edited by: Michael McFarland on Oct 20, 2014 9:04 AM
Angus MacRuder

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 20, 2014 10:59 AM   in response to: Michael McFarland in response to: Michael McFarland
That's why I use fake names/emails all the time! And I win! :-)
Bart van Dongen

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 3:37 AM   in response to: Michael McFarland in response to: Michael McFarland
I noticed my email was showing up in the Popular Threads category, and I was a little frustrated/shocked. Turns out the problem was this extra tiny note in the create a user account page: "EDN login name defaults to your email address unless you enter a new login name here." The best part is you can't change you're username/login name so you have to create a new account.

Thanks! I'll make sure to check that.

Now here is something interesting... Someone was logged in with a different account. I logged out, logged in, the header is showing "Welcome Marjan Venema", but this post is still attributed to the previous user?!?

Edited by: Bart van Dongen Marjan Venema on Oct 21, 2014 3:38 AM

Yup, I changed the EDN account, but apparently the newsgroups have their own separate login...

Edited by: Bart van Dongen Marjan Venema on Oct 21, 2014 3:43 AM
Marjan Venema

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 4:08 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
I just received an email response from the "Delphi Cookbook" published explaining how they got my email address.

They did run across my site and as it doesn't publish my email address they Googled me. Turns out they found my work email address on CodeVerge.com in an archive of an old post to the Embarcadero (CodeGear?) news servers:

"Marjan Venema" <x@x.x> wrote in message

I guess that @Jason Sweby's email address was found in the same manner. Some of us apparently have inadvertently "published" email addresses thanks to the otherwise very helpful newsgroup archives.

When I do the same, I get plenty of hits... :(

I do hope it is all from before I (we all?) wisened up and that I won't find my email address in archives of the couple of posts I made here recently.
Jeff Dyer

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 5:56 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
They did run across my site and as it doesn't publish my email address they Googled me. Turns out they found my work email address on CodeVerge.com in an archive of an old post to the Embarcadero (CodeGear?) news servers:

You'd better hope that Embarcadero's Lawyers don't read these threads.
Marjan Venema

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 6:49 AM   in response to: Jeff Dyer in response to: Jeff Dyer
Jeff Dyer wrote:
They did run across my site and as it doesn't publish my email address they Googled me. Turns out they found my work email address on CodeVerge.com in an archive of an old post to the Embarcadero (CodeGear?) news servers:

You'd better hope that Embarcadero's Lawyers don't read these threads.

Why?

Because I ask questions?

Because I am trying to ascertain how someone got an email address that as far as I was aware is known only to Embarcadero and one or two others?

Because I had no idea that participating in their newsgroups several years ago would mean that my email address would be spread all over various newsgroups archive sites?

Because I am naive?

Because I am honest enough tell everyone how it did happen?

Interesting notion that I would have to fear lawyers for that. I am so glad I don't live in the US...
Jeff Dyer

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:39 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
Why?

If you go back and read your original message it should be clear.

It seems that you are another of those who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and are quite happen to immediately throw the blame on the easiest target.

And the other things you wrote.

Perhaps the lack of any sign of apology for wrongly getting people concerned about the integrity of Embarcadero also.

No you are trying to pass the buck onto the newsgroup sites and get them to sort out your "problems".... sheesh.
Marjan Venema

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:51 AM   in response to: Jeff Dyer in response to: Jeff Dyer
Jeff Dyer wrote:
Why?

If you go back and read your original message it should be clear.

It seems that you are another of those who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and are quite happen to immediately throw the blame on the easiest target.

And the other things you wrote.

Perhaps the lack of any sign of apology for wrongly getting people concerned about the integrity of Embarcadero also.

No you are trying to pass the buck onto the newsgroup sites and get them to sort out your "problems".... sheesh.

Sorry you feel that way.

Yes, I do want my email address of those sites newsgroups archive sites. Sort of difficult for me to do without their help... How is that "passing the buck"?
Jeff Dyer

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:53 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
Yes, I do want my email address of those sites newsgroups archive sites. Sort of difficult for me to do without their help... How is that "passing the buck"?

Because if you are that concerned about an email address, you should have used a fake or disposable one in the first place.

Now you are asking the newsgroups to sort out your shortsightedness.

That's how.
Marjan Venema

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 8:17 AM   in response to: Jeff Dyer in response to: Jeff Dyer
Jeff Dyer wrote:
Yes, I do want my email address of those sites newsgroups archive sites. Sort of difficult for me to do without their help... How is that "passing the buck"?

Because if you are that concerned about an email address, you should have used a fake or disposable one in the first place.

Now you are asking the newsgroups to sort out your shortsightedness.

That's how.

Yup. Because I can't do it without them.

The stuff out there is from before I wisened up with regard to email addresses and from before I realized what being quoted in a newsgroup meant with regard to newsgroup archives (today).
> Rich <

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:41 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
Marjan Venema wrote:

Why?

It's not because of any of the reasons you mentioned. It's because if you don't do what people want they'll attack you. I don't know if Jeff is just using a little light humor or if he has a vested interest in people using email and wanting everyone to publish their email address. But I've seen this happen before. People who become victims of improper activities on the web speak out and the people involved with those activities seem to always be there to attack.
Jeff Dyer

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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:49 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
> Rich < wrote:
Marjan Venema wrote:

Why?

It's not because of any of the reasons you mentioned. It's because if you don't do what people want they'll attack you. I don't know if Jeff is just using a little light humor or if he has a vested interest in people using email and wanting everyone to publish their email address. But I've seen this happen before. People who become victims of improper activities on the web speak out and the people involved with those activities seem to always be there to attack.

Rich,

I assure you I have got no vested interest in email, except that I can't see how modern business could go on without it. You have to be aware of its limitations and dangers and make best us of it as you can. It is a powerful tool.

Regarding this situation, It's more the Chicken Little syndrome. How can anyone be 100% sure that their work email address has only been used seen by a select group of people. Anyone that has been email could have forwarded it on to another colleague, their computer could have gotten a virus and sent out all know contacts.

Or just maybe, some years ago, that address was used on a public forum.

You're right, in my "Lawyer" post I was using some light humour but the sheer blind "I'm correct" response from Marjan p***d me off a little.

Especially after practically accusing EMB or spamming her email address out and not retracting the accusation.
> Rich <

Posts: 171
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 9:14 AM   in response to: Jeff Dyer in response to: Jeff Dyer
Jeff Dyer wrote:

I assure you I have got no vested interest in email

Cool

It is a powerful tool.

I agree but many people don't need email to accomplish their daily work. Many also use it, at work, for things that are not work related. I think internal email is a great thing if it is used for the right purposes. Even so there are people in companies that hold positions where using email instead of calling a meeting is less than optimal.

Anyone that has been email could have forwarded it on to another colleague, their computer could have gotten a virus and sent out all know contacts.

Right. Yet another reason I don't use email.

Especially after practically accusing EMB or spamming her email address out and not retracting the accusation.

I know what you're saying. I wonder if Marjan was just "pondering" EMB as a source. If Marjan spends the day working with EMB products and interacting at the EMB websites then the first thought would be EMB. It may not be a good process to follow for uncovering the culprit but it does happen.

I bet if you start a new positive thread about Delphi you'll feel much better.
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Oct 23, 2014 1:36 PM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Rich wrote:

Jeff Dyer wrote:

I assure you I have got no vested interest in email

Cool

It is a powerful tool.

I agree but many people don't need email to accomplish their daily
work.

Indeed. My 92 year old mother doesn't need it, nor do her friends. But
most other people do, especially those in IT. Sure, you can do without,
but why would you limit yourself?

I must admit I did not read your 288 line message. TL;DR.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an
optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
-- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
> Rich <

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  Posted: Oct 23, 2014 3:08 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Sure, you can do without,
but why would you limit yourself?

Well I'm limiting myself from spam, fake emails, emails that I send that don't arrive, emails that people send me and think they've arrived but they haven't, email hackers, hackers sending emails from my email that I don't know about.

I must admit I did not read your 288 line message. TL;DR.

That's OK. You were probably busy deleting spam from your email. :-)
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 12:22 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Rich wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Sure, you can do without,
but why would you limit yourself?

Well I'm limiting myself from spam, fake emails, emails that I send
that don't arrive, emails that people send me and think they've
arrived but they haven't, email hackers, hackers sending emails from
my email that I don't know about.

So do I. Or well, my spam filters do. And I can use email for what it
was intended without having to see any spam or other junk. I think it
makes life simpler.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly,
while bad people will find a way around the laws."
-- Plato (427-347 B.C.)
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Oct 25, 2014 12:35 PM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Rich wrote:

Well I'm limiting myself from spam, fake emails, emails that I send
that don't arrive, emails that people send me and think they've
arrived but they haven't, email hackers, hackers sending emails from
my email that I don't know about.

So am I, and yet I can use email to my advantage. Would you also do
without snail mail or telephone, just because people might mail or
phone you about things you don't like, or because if you call, some
people don't answer?

But hey, you are free to do without e-mail. Just don't look down on
people who use it.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"It is hard to free fools from chains they revere."
-- Voltaire
Marjan Venema

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Re: Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails available to third parties?
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:55 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
> Rich < wrote:
Marjan Venema wrote:

Why?

It's not because of any of the reasons you mentioned. It's because if you don't do what people want they'll attack you. I don't know if Jeff is just using a little light humor or if he has a vested interest in people using email and wanting everyone to publish their email address. But I've seen this happen before. People who become victims of improper activities on the web speak out and the people involved with those activities seem to always be there to attack.

Thanks, yes, that is a pattern I have noticed as well.

Don't know where Jeff is coming from on this. Don't care much. If he is using a little light humor, then sorry, humor is beyond me when it comes to this subject.
> Rich <

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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 9:16 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
Marjan Venema wrote:

Don't know where Jeff is coming from on this. Don't care much. If he is using a little light humor, then sorry, humor is beyond me when it comes to this subject.

I understand. A select bad few have taken a great tool, email, and turned it into a tool for foolishness. They have that right as long as they don't bother others. But that's the whole point. Email can be used by people to bother others who don't invite it.
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Oct 23, 2014 1:38 PM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Rich wrote:

I understand. A select bad few have taken a great tool, email, and
turned it into a tool for foolishness. They have that right as long
as they don't bother others. But that's the whole point. Email can be
used by people to bother others who don't invite it.

I get quite some email, but only email I asked for. A good Bayesian
flter will take care of the junk.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"I'd rather be a climbing ape than a falling angel."
-- Terry Pratchett
> Rich <

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  Posted: Oct 23, 2014 1:48 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

I get quite some email, but only email I asked for. A good Bayesian
flter will take care of the junk.

If you're working and someone in the office is sending 5 - 10 joke emails a day along with 1 - 3 important ones. Will the filter eliminate the joke emails?
Ian Barker

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  Posted: Oct 23, 2014 2:30 PM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Rich wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

I get quite some email, but only email I asked for. A good Bayesian
flter will take care of the junk.

If you're working and someone in the office is sending 5 - 10 joke
emails a day along with 1 - 3 important ones. Will the filter
eliminate the joke emails?

If don't email it makes no difference since you'd not get any
'important' emails either would you? Duh.

--
IanB.
http://about.me/IanBarker

> Rich <

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  Posted: Oct 23, 2014 3:00 PM   in response to: Ian Barker in response to: Ian Barker
Ian Barker wrote:

If don't email it makes no difference since you'd not get any
'important' emails either would you? Duh.

I was just asking a question about the technology.
Ian Barker

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  Posted: Oct 23, 2014 9:25 PM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Rich wrote:

Ian Barker wrote:

If don't email it makes no difference since you'd not get any
'important' emails either would you? Duh.

I was just asking a question about the technology.

I see. This has ironically got to be one of the longest threads in
non.tech (although there are some epic ones) - a bit like a
never-ending email chain-letter played out over NNTP and web forums. :)

I get where you're coming from about email, from your perspective.
From my perspective I don't seem to get any spam or at least not a
noticeable flood. I have filters set up plus I use Gmail which does,
actually, filter out a lot of the other crud too and also has some
clever ideas like little buckets in which it puts things based on
heuristics.

Do you not use Facebook, Twitter or any other social networks? What
about Skype and/or instant messaging of some sort? I ask this because
I am a British American so I have family and clients in both countries.
How would that work? I mean, how would I get the work, confirm
contract details, specs and so on? How do you do that without some
form of email exchange? I mean, I write to my folks back in the UK,
send presents, cards, physical photos and so on, plus I phone them
(using Skype) but I'm not really understanding how you could carry on a
business on anything other than a very limited and local way without
email.

Do you have to scan various websites and so on to find out that Delphi
or a particular component library has been updated if it does not have
an automatic update system? How would you arrange communications with
someone in, for example, Australia (as I have just done). We spoke via
Skype but how would we exchange the various files we need to exchange?
Dropbox? FTP? Some specially crafted web page?

If you sell things via the web - how do you do that without using
email? Do you have everything go into a shopping cart then have to
check it every few minutes to see if something has been ordered?
Seriously, how?

I'm not trying to be horrible, honestly I'm not (and I can see how
sometimes things can be construed that way) but I'm curious to see how
there is a different method that would work and have the right kind of
cost/benefit ratio that would be anything other than impractical.

Oh look, I typed a message that is TL;DR :D

--
IanB.
http://about.me/IanBarker
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 12:23 AM   in response to: Ian Barker in response to: Ian Barker
Ian Barker wrote:

Rich wrote:

Ian Barker wrote:

If don't email it makes no difference since you'd not get any
'important' emails either would you? Duh.

I was just asking a question about the technology.

I see. This has ironically got to be one of the longest threads in
non.tech (although there are some epic ones)

The epic ones were MUCH longer.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

Government's Law: There is an exception to all laws.
Mike Margerum

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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 3:17 AM   in response to: Ian Barker in response to: Ian Barker
Email can indeed be a productivity killer as can Twitter. The key is to
only use them a few times a day and to turn notifications off. I'll
also put my iPhone on DND for 2-3 hours while im working.
Ian Barker

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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 6:22 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

Email can indeed be a productivity killer as can Twitter. The key is
to only use them a few times a day and to turn notifications off.
I'll also put my iPhone on DND for 2-3 hours while im working.

I have a Pebble watch which syncs to my phone - best idea ever - the
watch only lights up/vibrates when it's a genuinely important email or
message (for example from my daughter telling me she has yet again
forgotten some vital item of school equipment). My phone then sits out
of reach so I don't get tempted to play with it or get distracted by
its little "look at me know" attention-seeking ways. :)

--
IanB.
http://about.me/IanBarker
> Rich <

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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 5:46 AM   in response to: Ian Barker in response to: Ian Barker
Ian Barker wrote:

Do you not use Facebook, Twitter or any other social networks?

I don't use FB or twit. But marketing or sales people would.

What about Skype and/or instant messaging...

You're answering your own question.

Do you have to scan various websites...

All great ways to do things that take communications further and to higher levels. Again you've answered your own questions.

If you sell things via the web...

I don't complete transactions via the web. No one that I know pays for six figure contracts via the web. But there could be someone doing it.

I'm not trying to be horrible...

You're just not thinking about it enough. Email is a great sending method for free form processes. But you can replace email for many of the processes with software systems like collaboration and version control systems. Look at open source projects. All the team members don't email new source code to everyone.

What you're used to is chit-chat conversations. But there are times when people have to get together and get work done. Say sign contracts or resolve differences. The chit-chat is usually a waste of time for decision makers. Efficient and effective people spend their day getting work done. They can have a meeting and direct a dozen people who then direct three dozen other people. That is real efficiency and effectiveness.

I don't want to chit-chat via email with people. I want to get work done. I want to talk with decision makers and make things happen. If I want to chit-chat or entertain myself. I'll get on the web and chat in a forum or watch a movie or whatever. So for me email is just not a good tool.
Ian Barker

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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 6:34 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Rich wrote:


You're just not thinking about it enough.

OK, I think I get it now. "You've already answered your own questions".

Epic trolling.

XanaNews-->Bozo Author.

--
IanB.
http://about.me/IanBarker
> Rich <

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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 9:41 AM   in response to: Ian Barker in response to: Ian Barker
Ian Barker wrote:

OK, I think I get it now. "You've already answered your own questions".

All the alternatives that you mentioned in your post were good options.

Epic trolling.

I'm not trolling. Given your accusations I would think you're trolling.
Rudy Velthuis (...


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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 12:23 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Rich wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

I get quite some email, but only email I asked for. A good Bayesian
flter will take care of the junk.

If you're working and someone in the office is sending 5 - 10 joke
emails a day along with 1 - 3 important ones. Will the filter
eliminate the joke emails?

If your Bayesian filters are any good, yes.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

Murphy's Fourth Law: If there is a possibility of several things
going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the
one to go wrong.
Bruce McGee

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Solved: was Is Embarcadero making edn subscribers emails...
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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 6:24 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
Marjan Venema wrote:
I just received an email response from the "Delphi Cookbook" published explaining how they got my email address.

Glad you found your answer.

--
Regards
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Marjan Venema

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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 6:55 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Glad you found your answer.

Thanks, so am I.

Now contacting various newsgroup archive sites to see whether they would batch edit my email address into something like "invalid@invalid.whatever".

Some do honor the x-no-archive header, so I may have a chance, but I am not holding my breath...
> Rich <

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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 7:44 AM   in response to: Marjan Venema in response to: Marjan Venema
Marjan Venema wrote:

Now contacting various newsgroup archive sites to see whether they would batch edit my email address into something like "invalid@invalid.whatever".

So will we see a Delphi program from you that scours the web removing email addresses?
Marjan Venema

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  Posted: Oct 21, 2014 8:10 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
So will we see a Delphi program from you that scours the web removing email addresses?

:) I wish...
Angus MacRuder

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  Posted: Oct 23, 2014 3:11 PM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
> Rich < wrote:
Marjan Venema wrote:

Now contacting various newsgroup archive sites to see whether they would batch edit my email address into something like "invalid@invalid.whatever".

So will we see a Delphi program from you that scours the web removing email addresses?

That would be a 5 liner in Perl.
> Rich <

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  Posted: Oct 23, 2014 7:32 PM   in response to: Angus MacRuder in response to: Angus MacRuder
Angus MacRuder wrote:

That would be a 5 liner in Perl.

Maybe you could create a website that people can visit and enter an email address to be wiped from the web.
Jeff Dyer

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  Posted: Oct 24, 2014 7:46 AM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
www.facebook.com

Maybe you could create a website that people can visit and enter an email address to be wiped from the web.
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