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Thread: IntraWeb board


This question is not answered. Helpful answers available: 2. Correct answers available: 1.


Permlink Replies: 38 - Last Post: Apr 24, 2018 4:35 PM Last Post By: Chad Hower Threads: [ Previous | Next ]
Frank Staal

Posts: 115
Registered: 12/9/99
IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 16, 2018 12:02 AM
Is it still in use? Should we turn the spam magnet readonly? It is fracking annoying....
Carl-Henrik Nil...

Posts: 53
Registered: 3/26/02
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 16, 2018 4:29 AM   in response to: Frank Staal in response to: Frank Staal
Frank Staal wrote:
Is it still in use? Should we turn the spam magnet readonly? It is fracking annoying....

I don't know why the spam in the Intraweb group isn't removed, but it certainly is annoying.
I've used the web interface to monitor all Delphi groups, and now that has become much more
difficult due to the extensive spamming.
Moderators please look at the Delphi category:
https://forums.embarcadero.com/category.jspa?categoryID=12

--
C-H
Dave Nottage

Posts: 1,850
Registered: 1/7/00
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 16, 2018 7:08 AM   in response to: Carl-Henrik Nil... in response to: Carl-Henrik Nil...
Carl-Henrik Nilsson wrote:

I don't know why the spam in the Intraweb group isn't removed, but it certainly is annoying.

Normally I would remove it (as well as Remy Lebeau and other TeamB members), however spam on the forums has become
untenuous, and I don't have the time to spend on it. I have informed the appropriate people on more than one occasion
in the hope they might do something about it.

--
Dave Nottage [MVP, TeamB]
Find hints, tips and tricks at Delphi Worlds blog: http://www.delphiworlds.com
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 9,448
Registered: 12/23/01
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 16, 2018 9:44 AM   in response to: Carl-Henrik Nil... in response to: Carl-Henrik Nil...
Carl-Henrik Nilsson wrote:

I don't know why the spam in the Intraweb group isn't removed

It is removed, very often in fact (every day during the week, and on
the weekends when possible). It is just that there is a LOT of
spamming in that group, and it takes time to get rid of it all. It is
a very slow and tedious process.

I've used the web interface to monitor all Delphi groups, and now that
has become much more difficult due to the extensive spamming.

And this is one of the many reason why I HATE web forums. But
especially Embarcadero's web forums, because they have not implemented
ANY kind of anti-spamming countermeasures whatsoever, and the
moderation tools are painfully minimal and lack any real power. No
human validation during registration. No moderation queue for new users.
No option to delete spam user accounts, or at least delete a user's messages.
No option to delete spam messages in bulk. Nothing that a modern web
forum should have. Our hands are tied, we do what we can.

Moderators please look at the Delphi category:
https://forums.embarcadero.com/category.jspa?categoryID=12

We do, all the time.

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Carl-Henrik Nil...

Posts: 53
Registered: 3/26/02
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 16, 2018 10:41 AM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
And this is one of the many reason why I HATE web forums. But
especially Embarcadero's web forums, because they have not implemented
ANY kind of anti-spamming countermeasures whatsoever, and the
moderation tools are painfully minimal and lack any real power. No
human validation during registration. No moderation queue for new users.
No option to delete spam user accounts, or at least delete a user's messages.
No option to delete spam messages in bulk. Nothing that a modern web
forum should have. Our hands are tied, we do what we can.

Wow, that's disheartening!

--
C-H
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,730
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 3:26 PM   in response to: Carl-Henrik Nil... in response to: Carl-Henrik Nil...
Carl-Henrik Nilsson wrote:

Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
And this is one of the many reason why I HATE web forums. But
especially Embarcadero's web forums, because they have not
implemented ANY kind of anti-spamming countermeasures whatsoever,
and the moderation tools are painfully minimal and lack any real
power. No human validation during registration. No moderation
queue for new users. No option to delete spam user accounts, or at
least delete a user's messages. No option to delete spam messages
in bulk. Nothing that a modern web forum should have. Our hands
are tied, we do what we can.

Wow, that's disheartening!

Well, not all is lost. Most of us in TeamB still use NNTP (and that is
why we don't want to see NNTP, which is far more powerful and far more
convenient, go away anytime soon, even if some think it is outdated
technology). And in NNTP, especially using some NNTP clients like
XanaNews, we can delete spam messages much easier (and many at a time,
not just message by message). And we can also ban people, although the
effect of that is not so much: spammers can often switch to a new NNTP
and/or identity in a matter of seconds.

I personally stopped banning, but often delete messages (some days, I
delete many thousands).

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same
level of thinking we were at when we created them."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 9,448
Registered: 12/23/01
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 8:46 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:

And in NNTP, especially using some NNTP clients like XanaNews, we can
delete spam messages much easier (and many at a time, not just message
by message).

Unfortunately, Xananews does not support cancelling multiple messages
at a time, only one at a time. But even so, it turns out that
Embarcadero's server doesn't actually delete cancelled messages at all,
it simply replaces their body content with text like "This message is
no longer available". Pretty annoying when cancelling threads that are
started by, and consist solely of, spam. So I do resort to using the
Web interface to actually delete spam, not just cancel it.

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,730
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 19, 2018 4:37 PM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:

And in NNTP, especially using some NNTP clients like XanaNews, we
can delete spam messages much easier (and many at a time, not just
message by message).

Unfortunately, Xananews does not support cancelling multiple messages
at a time, only one at a time.

Oh yes, it does, you can cancel thousands of messages at once, but you
need a special key. TeamB members can have it, from me. Just e-mail me,
or contact me otherwise.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Nine out of ten doctors agree that one out of ten doctors is
an idiot."
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 9,448
Registered: 12/23/01
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 20, 2018 2:08 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:

Unfortunately, Xananews does not support cancelling multiple
messages at a time, only one at a time.

Oh yes, it does

I'm using the latest version, and it doesn't. See my other post for
details:

https://forums.embarcadero.com/message.jspa?messageID=1060562#1060562

you can cancel thousands of messages at once, but you need a special
key. TeamB members can have it, from me. Just e-mail me, or contact me
otherwise.

Done (via Facebook).

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 19, 2018 4:56 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy,

| Well, not all is lost. Most of us in TeamB still use NNTP

So do MANY of we others!!!

--

Q -- XanaNews 1.20-0cfde51 - 2018-04-19 16:54:46

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Chad Hower

Posts: 613
Registered: 3/2/07
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 23, 2018 2:30 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
On 4/18/2018 6:26 PM, Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:
Well, not all is lost. Most of us in TeamB still use NNTP (and that is
why we don't want to see NNTP, which is far more powerful and far more
convenient, go away anytime soon, even if some think it is outdated
technology). And in NNTP, especially using some NNTP clients like

I hate web forums too. Cant stand them, especially on my laggy
connections which hiccup frequently.

We have put up some web forums at Atozed as an alternative, but we to
hope the spam problem can be solved as our webforums are not connected
to our NNTP server.
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,730
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 2:54 PM   in response to: Carl-Henrik Nil... in response to: Carl-Henrik Nil...
Carl-Henrik Nilsson wrote:

Frank Staal wrote:
Is it still in use? Should we turn the spam magnet readonly? It is
fracking annoying....

I don't know why the spam in the Intraweb group isn't removed, but it
certainly is annoying.

I guess hardly anyone of TeamB (the ones who do the heavy spam-deletion
stuff) reads it. I certainly don't. As volunteers, we don't have fixed
groups we must look in.

But I can take a look, if someone points me to problems...

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic."
-- Joseph Stalin.
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 9,448
Registered: 12/23/01
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 8:43 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:

I guess hardly anyone of TeamB (the ones who do the heavy
spam-deletion stuff) reads it. I certainly don't.

I'm not an IntraWeb user, but I do check that group every day for spam.

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,730
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 19, 2018 4:34 PM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:

I guess hardly anyone of TeamB (the ones who do the heavy
spam-deletion stuff) reads it. I certainly don't.

I'm not an IntraWeb user, but I do check that group every day for
spam.

I'm subscribed to it too, now. But I still don't read all groups. There
are too many.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Human history becomes more and more a race between education
and catastrophe." -- H. G. Wells (1866-1946)
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,730
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 3:27 PM   in response to: Carl-Henrik Nil... in response to: Carl-Henrik Nil...
Carl-Henrik Nilsson wrote:

Frank Staal wrote:
Is it still in use? Should we turn the spam magnet readonly? It is
fracking annoying....

I don't know why the spam in the Intraweb group isn't removed, but it
certainly is annoying. I've used the web interface to monitor all
Delphi groups, and now that has become much more difficult due to the
extensive spamming. Moderators please look at the Delphi category:
https://forums.embarcadero.com/category.jspa?categoryID=12

FWIW, spam is usually found in rarely fequented groups. I don't know
the Intraweb group, but is it highly frequented (apart from spam)?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Don't drive me crazy -- it's within walking distance."
Chad Hower

Posts: 613
Registered: 3/2/07
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 23, 2018 2:31 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
On 4/18/2018 6:27 PM, Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:
FWIW, spam is usually found in rarely fequented groups. I don't know
the Intraweb group, but is it highly frequented (apart from spam)?

It was pretty well used before the spam attack started and became sustained.
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 9,448
Registered: 12/23/01
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 16, 2018 9:50 AM   in response to: Frank Staal in response to: Frank Staal
Frank Staal wrote:
Is it still in use?

Barely. AtoZed still monitors it, however due to heavy spamming and continued server instabilities, AToZed recently decided to open its own forum server at http://www.atozed.com/forums.

https://www.atozed.com/2018/03/new-web-forums/

https://www.atozed.com/2018/03/embarcadero-intraweb-forum-under-spam-attack/

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 16, 2018 1:06 PM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
Am 16.04.2018 um 18:50 schrieb Remy Lebeau (TeamB):
Frank Staal wrote:
Is it still in use?

Barely. AtoZed still monitors it, however due to heavy spamming and continued server instabilities, AToZed recently decided to open its own forum server at http://www.atozed.com/forums.

https://www.atozed.com/2018/03/new-web-forums/

https://www.atozed.com/2018/03/embarcadero-intraweb-forum-under-spam-attack/

Hello,

while I can understan Atozed this once again shows, that EMBT doesn't
really get what they should do forum wise!

The best thing would be to close the new style forums, put these in
place and invest the necessary ressources to get and keep these forums
stable (they were resonable stable for quite some months until the last
issue happened in January or February) and to get at least some of the
necessary functionality needed to help fighting that spam. The new
forums afaik were plagued by spam as well.

These forums are better structured and the experts of TeamB are here
(not sure how many of them are active on the new ones), NNTP access is
possible, threaded messaging etc.

=> where's the issue? Keeping the forum software up to date? Aren't they
a software development company?

Hwom do we need to convince and what's the best way to do this?

Greetings

Markus
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 16, 2018 2:55 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Markus Humm wrote:
Am 16.04.2018 um 18:50 schrieb Remy Lebeau (TeamB):
Frank Staal wrote:
Is it still in use?

Barely. AtoZed still monitors it, however due to heavy spamming and continued server instabilities, AToZed recently decided to open its own forum server at http://www.atozed.com/forums.

https://www.atozed.com/2018/03/new-web-forums/

https://www.atozed.com/2018/03/embarcadero-intraweb-forum-under-spam-attack/

Hello,

while I can understan Atozed this once again shows, that EMBT doesn't
really get what they should do forum wise!

The best thing would be to close the new style forums, put these in
place and invest the necessary ressources to get and keep these forums
stable (they were resonable stable for quite some months until the last
issue happened in January or February) and to get at least some of the
necessary functionality needed to help fighting that spam. The new
forums afaik were plagued by spam as well.

These forums are better structured and the experts of TeamB are here
(not sure how many of them are active on the new ones), NNTP access is
possible, threaded messaging etc.

=> where's the issue? Keeping the forum software up to date? Aren't they
a software development company?

Hwom do we need to convince and what's the best way to do this?

I agree that what you suggest as "the best thing" is the best thing.

Unfortunately these problems have been going on for years. It's not just spam. There have been times the entire system has been completely shut down for weeks at a time. The forum underpinnings are weak. They tried to do a lot of things at the same time, including parallel NNTP and web interfaces and some connections back into their other web systems. Then they let it fall apart by not providing the resources to care for and feed it. Decent ideas, bad followup.

Delphi itself suffers. Few humans can learn Delphi, or keep up, without a technical support community. Maybe you can convince them, others (including my limited contacts) have failed. Miserably. Clearly they need to understand how it affects the whole Delphi ecosystem, including sales, but they just don't "get it".

Intraweb does have very active support (including the EMB forum as much as it is possible). For now, if you're looking for Intraweb support, I'd go to their new forums. The concept of waiting for EMB to fix/replace their forums is pure suicide. IF it is ever actually done then it might (as in maybe) make sense to pull it back together. Don't hold your breath.

Dan

Edited by: Dan Barclay on Apr 16, 2018 4:55 PM
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 17, 2018 1:07 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Am 16.04.2018 um 23:57 schrieb Dan Barclay:
Markus Humm wrote:
Am 16.04.2018 um 18:50 schrieb Remy Lebeau (TeamB):
Frank Staal wrote:
Is it still in use?

Barely. AtoZed still monitors it, however due to heavy spamming and continued server instabilities, AToZed recently decided to open its own forum server at http://www.atozed.com/forums.

https://www.atozed.com/2018/03/new-web-forums/

https://www.atozed.com/2018/03/embarcadero-intraweb-forum-under-spam-attack/

Hello,

while I can understan Atozed this once again shows, that EMBT doesn't
really get what they should do forum wise!

The best thing would be to close the new style forums, put these in
place and invest the necessary ressources to get and keep these forums
stable (they were resonable stable for quite some months until the last
issue happened in January or February) and to get at least some of the
necessary functionality needed to help fighting that spam. The new
forums afaik were plagued by spam as well.

These forums are better structured and the experts of TeamB are here
(not sure how many of them are active on the new ones), NNTP access is
possible, threaded messaging etc.

=> where's the issue? Keeping the forum software up to date? Aren't they
a software development company?

Hwom do we need to convince and what's the best way to do this?

I agree that what you suggest as "the best thing" is the best thing.

Unfortunately these problems have been going on for years. It's not just spam. There have been times the entire system has been completely shut down for weeks at a time. The forum underpinnings are weak. They tried to do a lot of things at the same time, including parallel NNTP and web interfaces and some connections back into their other web systems. Then they let it fall apart by not providing the resources to care for and feed it. Decent ideas, bad followup.

Delphi itself suffers. Few humans can learn Delphi, or keep up, without a technical support community. Maybe you can convince them, others (including my limited contacts) have failed. Miserably. Clearly they need to understand how it affects the whole Delphi ecosystem, including sales, but they just don't "get it".

Intraweb does have very active support (including the EMB forum as much as it is possible). For now, if you're looking for Intraweb support, I'd go to their new forums. The concept of waiting for EMB to fix/replace their forums is pure suicide. IF it is ever actually done then it might (as in maybe) make sense to pull it back together. Don't hold your breath.

Dan

Edited by: Dan Barclay on Apr 16, 2018 4:55 PM

Hello,

I will not hold my breath, but: what about the idea of a "combined"
submittal of our voice/opinion of the situation in contrast to just
moving elsewhere for your topic area?

If a lot of persons voice the same opinion to the decission makers or at
least to EMBT personel which has direct contact to those (the PMs might
be a starting point) it might provoke a positive reaction. Otherwise
they get the impression that nobody cares so nothing needs to be done...

Best regards

Markus
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,730
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 3:38 PM   in response to: Dan Barclay in response to: Dan Barclay
Dan Barclay wrote:

Delphi itself suffers. Few humans can learn Delphi, or keep up,
without a technical support community.

Oh, but there is a Community, at community.embarcadero.com.

These groups are just considered its ugly cousin.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"You find as you look around the world that every single bit of
progress in humane feeling, every improvement in the criminal
law, every step toward the diminution of war, every step toward
better treatment of the colored races, or every mitigation of
slavery, every moral progress that there has been in the world,
has been consistently opposed by the organized churches of the
world. I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion, as
organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal
enemy of moral progress in the world."
-- Bertrand Russell
Frank Staal

Posts: 115
Registered: 12/9/99
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:03 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:
Dan Barclay wrote:

Delphi itself suffers. Few humans can learn Delphi, or keep up,
without a technical support community.

Oh, but there is a Community, at community.embarcadero.com.

These groups are just considered its ugly cousin.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"You find as you look around the world that every single bit of
progress in humane feeling, every improvement in the criminal
law, every step toward the diminution of war, every step toward
better treatment of the colored races, or every mitigation of
slavery, every moral progress that there has been in the world,
has been consistently opposed by the organized churches of the
world. I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion, as
organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal
enemy of moral progress in the world."
-- Bertrand Russell

And the community forums suffer from spam as well, and they're de-spamming is even less. WHich is one of the reasons I stopped visiting them. The single "Programming" forum was another one, you can do so many things with Delphi that a single programming forum is ridiculous.
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 20, 2018 8:31 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Am 19.04.2018 um 00:38 schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP):
Dan Barclay wrote:

Delphi itself suffers. Few humans can learn Delphi, or keep up,
without a technical support community.

Oh, but there is a Community, at community.embarcadero.com.

These groups are just considered its ugly cousin.

The issue with that is: that the person who does the consideration has
it gotten all the way wrong.... :-(
How to convince that person he/she's got the wrong view?

As other users already wrote: the Community groups do have their spam
issue as well. And oh: EMBT is not even able to fix a HTTP 404 issue on
their main website within 2 days. Even today on the 3rd day it's not
fixed (I reported it to marco and he said he'll pass it on):
Free tools / academic program -> 404

The quick'n dirty solution would either be to temporarily remove that
subpage or to replace it with something more like "under
construction/maintenance".

Greetings

Markus
Jeff Overcash (...

Posts: 1,529
Registered: 9/23/99
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 20, 2018 2:17 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
On 4/20/2018 11:31 AM, Markus Humm wrote:
Am 19.04.2018 um 00:38 schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP):
Dan Barclay wrote:

Delphi itself suffers. Few humans can learn Delphi, or keep up,
without a technical support community.

Oh, but there is a Community, at community.embarcadero.com.

These groups are just considered its ugly cousin.

The issue with that is: that the person who does the consideration has
it gotten all the way wrong.... :-(
How to convince that person he/she's got the wrong view?

There really isn't one. See the one on community was started by DavidI/DevRel
on thier own. So is the responsibility of DevRel. We were told in no uncertain
terms that DevRel did not care about NNTP access to their forums after those
went live. What was picked for the community forums was more cosmetically
driven than feature driven from the email chains I read 3 years ago or so when
they were setup.

These (NNTP/Web jive forums) are "owned" internally by Support. So you actually
have a conflict (minor but there) that it can be argued by management that free
answers here take away $s from support calls. With the move to subscription
everything that comes with free support calls (3?), I would argue that they
should be pushing more here these days so support is not nickled and dimed with
easier cases and they get the ones that might end up being bug reports than help.

These groups are run on Jive, a third party solution, that has had a few
customizations. It would be nice to see some things fixed like registering new
users have to get valid Emb accounts (there is a bug allowing them to bypass
this) and from a banning standpoint allowing use to make infinite bans (longest
due to a bug is 1 year) would be nice too.

Ever since the move from CompuServe, getting funding for these groups has been
an uphill climb. First we were on netscape news server, but upgrading hardware
or the software basically never happened. It was a hardware total failure that
eventually lead to switching over to Jive. Partially cause cheaper, partially
because John Kaster wanted something more flexible and with a web interface
which as long as it supported NNTP was a good thing and partially because the
.NET database engine (BlackFish?) they were selling could be used to eat their
own dog food (it has been since switched to MSSQL).


As other users already wrote: the Community groups do have their spam
issue as well. And oh: EMBT is not even able to fix a HTTP 404 issue on
their main website within 2 days. Even today on the 3rd day it's not
fixed (I reported it to marco and he said he'll pass it on):
Free tools / academic program -> 404

The quick'n dirty solution would either be to temporarily remove that
subpage or to replace it with something more like "under
construction/maintenance".

Everyone involved with the NNTP groups have nothing to do with the communities
DevRel forums.

Greetings

Markus

--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
(Please do not email me directly unless asked. Thank You)
Learning is finding out what you already know. Doing is demonstrating that you
know it. Teaching is reminding others that they know it as well as you. We are
all leaners, doers, teachers. (R Bach)

Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 22, 2018 12:19 AM   in response to: Jeff Overcash (... in response to: Jeff Overcash (...
Am 20.04.2018 um 23:17 schrieb Jeff Overcash (TeamB):
On 4/20/2018 11:31 AM, Markus Humm wrote:
Am 19.04.2018 um 00:38 schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP):
Dan Barclay wrote:

Delphi itself suffers. Few humans can learn Delphi, or keep up,
without a technical support community.

Oh, but there is a Community, at community.embarcadero.com.

These groups are just considered its ugly cousin.

The issue with that is: that the person who does the consideration has
it gotten all the way wrong.... :-(
How to convince that person he/she's got the wrong view?

There really isn't one. See the one on community was started by DavidI/DevRel
on thier own. So is the responsibility of DevRel. We were told in no uncertain
terms that DevRel did not care about NNTP access to their forums after those
went live. What was picked for the community forums was more cosmetically
driven than feature driven from the email chains I read 3 years ago or so when
they were setup.

These (NNTP/Web jive forums) are "owned" internally by Support. So you actually
have a conflict (minor but there) that it can be argued by management that free
answers here take away $s from support calls. With the move to subscription
everything that comes with free support calls (3?), I would argue that they
should be pushing more here these days so support is not nickled and dimed with
easier cases and they get the ones that might end up being bug reports than help.

These groups are run on Jive, a third party solution, that has had a few
customizations. It would be nice to see some things fixed like registering new
users have to get valid Emb accounts (there is a bug allowing them to bypass
this) and from a banning standpoint allowing use to make infinite bans (longest
due to a bug is 1 year) would be nice too.

Ever since the move from CompuServe, getting funding for these groups has been
an uphill climb. First we were on netscape news server, but upgrading hardware
or the software basically never happened. It was a hardware total failure that
eventually lead to switching over to Jive. Partially cause cheaper, partially
because John Kaster wanted something more flexible and with a web interface
which as long as it supported NNTP was a good thing and partially because the
.NET database engine (BlackFish?) they were selling could be used to eat their
own dog food (it has been since switched to MSSQL).


As other users already wrote: the Community groups do have their spam
issue as well. And oh: EMBT is not even able to fix a HTTP 404 issue on
their main website within 2 days. Even today on the 3rd day it's not
fixed (I reported it to marco and he said he'll pass it on):
Free tools / academic program -> 404

The quick'n dirty solution would either be to temporarily remove that
subpage or to replace it with something more like "under
construction/maintenance".

Everyone involved with the NNTP groups have nothing to do with the communities
DevRel forums.


Hello,

thanks for this extensive insightful information.
Now what can we users do to convince the deciding ones at EMBT that
these here are the better one but just needed a little bit of effort now
and then but that this would be well spend and in the mod term would
help EMBT.

Whom to convince and how to do it best?

Greetings

Markus
Dave Nottage

Posts: 1,850
Registered: 1/7/00
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 22, 2018 1:06 AM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Markus Humm wrote:

Whom to convince and how to do it best?

The best people to communicate your desires to would probably be people like Jim McKeeth, Marco Cantu and David
Millington. All their email addresses are the usual pattern, i.e. first name dot last name at embarcadero dot com.

How to do it best would be to just tell them what you want from the forums/peer support, i.e. whether or not you desire
NNTP access etc.

--
Dave Nottage [MVP, TeamB]
Find hints, tips and tricks at Delphi Worlds blog: http://www.delphiworlds.com
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 22, 2018 9:17 AM   in response to: Dave Nottage in response to: Dave Nottage
Am 22.04.2018 um 10:06 schrieb Dave Nottage (TeamB):
Markus Humm wrote:

Whom to convince and how to do it best?

The best people to communicate your desires to would probably be people like Jim McKeeth, Marco Cantu and David
Millington. All their email addresses are the usual pattern, i.e. first name dot last name at embarcadero dot com.

How to do it best would be to just tell them what you want from the forums/peer support, i.e. whether or not you desire
NNTP access etc.

Now if we got some kind of "concentrated" action so that several
different people write to them it would bring more than just me...
(I'm not talking about spamming via copy and pasting the request of
somebody else but rather short messages voicing one's opinion)

Greetings

markus
Chad Hower

Posts: 613
Registered: 3/2/07
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 23, 2018 2:38 PM   in response to: Dave Nottage in response to: Dave Nottage
On 4/22/2018 4:06 AM, Dave Nottage (TeamB) wrote:
The best people to communicate your desires to would probably be
people like Jim McKeeth, Marco Cantu and David Millington. All their
email addresses are the usual pattern, i.e. first name dot last name
at embarcadero dot com.

Jim is aware of the issue and trying to find solutions, but the final
decision is above his head.

We have a NNTP server written in Delphi using Interbase/Firebird. It
rand for over a decade with no problems.

We offered it to EMBT, unfortunately when we tried to get the source
from our backups we found that its encrypted and we cannot open the
archive with any of our normal passphrases and it dates back to about 2005.
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 24, 2018 9:06 AM   in response to: Chad Hower in response to: Chad Hower
Am 23.04.2018 um 23:38 schrieb Chad Hower:
On 4/22/2018 4:06 AM, Dave Nottage (TeamB) wrote:
The best people to communicate your desires to would probably be
people like Jim McKeeth, Marco Cantu and David Millington. All their
email addresses are the usual pattern, i.e. first name dot last name
at embarcadero dot com.

Jim is aware of the issue and trying to find solutions, but the final
decision is above his head.

That's good that Jim tries to find a solution and Jim usually tries to
be helpful as good as he can (as far as I learned), but is it possiblöe
to directly address those person(s) in some "concerted effort"?

Greetings

Markus
Chad Hower

Posts: 613
Registered: 3/2/07
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 24, 2018 4:35 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
On 4/24/2018 12:06 PM, Markus Humm wrote:
That's good that Jim tries to find a solution and Jim usually tries to
be helpful as good as he can (as far as I learned), but is it possiblöe
to directly address those person(s) in some "concerted effort"?

I'm not sure those in charge want it to be known who they are. Its
someone in management, and above Marco in Jim. That's all I know for sure.

You might ask Marco as a starting point.
Chad Hower

Posts: 613
Registered: 3/2/07
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 23, 2018 2:38 PM   in response to: Dave Nottage in response to: Dave Nottage
That being said, an Indy based NNTP server is pretty easy to do.
Chad Hower

Posts: 613
Registered: 3/2/07
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 23, 2018 2:35 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
On 4/18/2018 6:38 PM, Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:
Oh, but there is a Community, at community.embarcadero.com.

Even a web forums go - those suck. I've never found anyone who likes
those forums although Im sure someone does.
Dan Barclay

Posts: 889
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: IntraWeb board [Edit]  
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  Posted: Apr 23, 2018 6:01 PM   in response to: Chad Hower in response to: Chad Hower
Chad Hower wrote:
On 4/18/2018 6:38 PM, Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:
Oh, but there is a Community, at community.embarcadero.com.

Even a web forums go - those suck. I've never found anyone who likes
those forums although Im sure someone does.

The community forms are a disaster waiting to happen with regard to support. By "Waiting" I mean that if they say "move over there" it's just not going to work. Essentially every feature a user would want in a support forum is missing or badly implemented. Yes, I tried it when I wasn't finding an answer anywhere else on a SOAP problem.

These web forums are usable, but not all that hot either. "Easily" <cough> fixed (some of the missing features seem to be there just not working). Best example: a direct link to "next unread" in a thread. Yes, I know most any message reader since CP/M (including NNTP) has had that.

In any case, the IW forum(s) seem to be working fairly well.

Dan
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,730
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 3:35 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Markus Humm wrote:

while I can understan Atozed this once again shows, that EMBT doesn't
really get what they should do forum wise!

Actually, these forums probably only run because TPTB didn't turn them
off yet. They want everyone to use the web-based Community forums,
thinking (wrongly) that those are much more user friendly, or at least
look better.

I personally prefer NNTP and certainly not the new Community forums.
Heck, there is only ONE (!) forum for "programming" there. Most of the
forums here are about a certain aspect of programming, nicely separated
by language and aspect. And these groups know proper threading,
especially in NNTP.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

Law Of Continuity: Experiments should be reproducible. They
should all fail in the same way.
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 9,448
Registered: 12/23/01
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 18, 2018 8:47 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:

thinking (wrongly) that those are much more user friendly, or at least
look better.

Neither of which are true :-(

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,730
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 19, 2018 4:28 PM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP) wrote:

thinking (wrongly) that those are much more user friendly, or at
least look better.

Neither of which are true :-(

Indeed. No usable threading, and pretty slow. Again, nothing beats NNTP
for discussions like these.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"To sit alone with my conscience will be judgment enough for me."
-- Charles William Stubbs
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 20, 2018 8:32 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Am 19.04.2018 um 00:35 schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB, MVP):
Markus Humm wrote:

while I can understan Atozed this once again shows, that EMBT doesn't
really get what they should do forum wise!

Actually, these forums probably only run because TPTB didn't turn them
off yet. They want everyone to use the web-based Community forums,
thinking (wrongly) that those are much more user friendly, or at least
look better.

I personally prefer NNTP and certainly not the new Community forums.
Heck, there is only ONE (!) forum for "programming" there. Most of the
forums here are about a certain aspect of programming, nicely separated
by language and aspect. And these groups know proper threading,
especially in NNTP.

+1 but how to convince them?
e.g. if we'd made a poll, posted to both kinds of groups and show them
that the majority prefers these "old" groups?

Complaining alone that they "don't see it" is njot enough I guess...

Greetings

Markus
Frank Staal

Posts: 115
Registered: 12/9/99
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 16, 2018 11:47 PM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
Frank Staal wrote:
Is it still in use?

Barely. AtoZed still monitors it, however due to heavy spamming and continued server instabilities, AToZed recently decided to open its own forum server at http://www.atozed.com/forums.

https://www.atozed.com/2018/03/new-web-forums/

https://www.atozed.com/2018/03/embarcadero-intraweb-forum-under-spam-attack/

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)

All the more reason to make it read only
Chad Hower

Posts: 613
Registered: 3/2/07
Re: IntraWeb board  
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  Posted: Apr 23, 2018 2:33 PM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
On 4/16/2018 12:50 PM, Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:

And my favorite. :)

https://www.atozed.com/2018/04/embt-squirrel-on-vacation-again/

Not that I'm dissing the work you guys at TeamB are doing to delete the
spam... the squirrel is not part of TeamB.
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