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Thread: XE4 - Lame Duck



Permlink Replies: 38 - Last Post: Dec 2, 2014 9:36 AM Last Post By: Dominique Willems
Mark Bell

Posts: 2
Registered: 2/25/13
XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 11, 2014 10:57 PM
Dear Embarcadero.

Not much over a year has gone by since I purchased Delphi XE4, together with the Mobile Add On Pack.
I'm a hobby programmer. By my own admittance, I'm not particularly good at it, but nonetheless, it's my hobby and I enjoy it.
However - having purchased the above products in an attempt to try my hand at creating an iOS program, I now find that I can no-longer achieve this as you (Embarcadero) have simply abandoned all support for XE4 when it comes to helping me create anything for iOS.
As soon as XCode 5 in all its versions was released, we XE4 users could only watch as the rest of the Embarcadero world sailed away into the distance.
With the introduction of Yosemite, even my XCode 4 has stopped working, so I'm completely stumped as to what to do.
I have searched and searched the internet looking for solutions, but all in vain.
It seems though, that there is no solution, and even if there was, it would be pointless because Apple will soon not be accepting any apps to their app store that don't meet the minimum requirement of SDK7.
So - in essence, you have sold me products that you won't / don't support, literally only months after they were introduced.
You offer me no way to update my setup, other than to give you yet more money - but why would I even think to do that when you won't be supporting the products that I purchase within months? In effect - Delphi XE4 users have been abandoned by your policies and corporate greed.
No attempt has been made by your company to come up with a solution. You are a disgrace. XE7 users watch out - within 2 years you will also be in the same position, and Mr. Embarcadero will be asking you to buy the latest incantation of the lame duck series.
I expect nothing from this company other than more attempts to squeeze my hard earned money out of my pocket. I can assure them, I won't be sending any of it their way ever again. Objective C - here I come.
Andy Vines

Posts: 17
Registered: 5/4/98
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 4:14 AM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
Mark Bell wrote:
Dear Embarcadero.

Not much over a year has gone by since I purchased Delphi XE4, together with the Mobile Add On Pack.
I'm a hobby programmer. By my own admittance, I'm not particularly good at it, but nonetheless, it's my hobby and I enjoy it.
However - having purchased the above products in an attempt to try my hand at creating an iOS program, I now find that I can no-longer achieve this as you (Embarcadero) have simply abandoned all support for XE4 when it comes to helping me create anything for iOS.
As soon as XCode 5 in all its versions was released, we XE4 users could only watch as the rest of the Embarcadero world sailed away into the distance.
With the introduction of Yosemite, even my XCode 4 has stopped working, so I'm completely stumped as to what to do.
I have searched and searched the internet looking for solutions, but all in vain.
It seems though, that there is no solution, and even if there was, it would be pointless because Apple will soon not be accepting any apps to their app store that don't meet the minimum requirement of SDK7.
So - in essence, you have sold me products that you won't / don't support, literally only months after they were introduced.
You offer me no way to update my setup, other than to give you yet more money - but why would I even think to do that when you won't be supporting the products that I purchase within months? In effect - Delphi XE4 users have been abandoned by your policies and corporate greed.
No attempt has been made by your company to come up with a solution. You are a disgrace. XE7 users watch out - within 2 years you will also be in the same position, and Mr. Embarcadero will be asking you to buy the latest incantation of the lame duck series.
I expect nothing from this company other than more attempts to squeeze my hard earned money out of my pocket. I can assure them, I won't be sending any of it their way ever again. Objective C - here I come.

I don't think you can put all the blame on Embacadero although I also don't like the way they are moving forwards with there business model, some of the blame has to also go to Apple, they have sucked so many people in with iThis and iThat and by not keeping backwards capability they keep sales up.

Bob Devine

Posts: 107
Registered: 8/16/01
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 4:46 AM   in response to: Andy Vines in response to: Andy Vines
On 12/11/2014 12:14, Andy Vines wrote:
I also don't like the way they are moving forwards with there business model

Although I sympathise with Mark it's difficult to see how the investment
required to keep on top of the contantly moving mobile landscape can be
reconciled with hobbyist coders. Although I believe AppMethod has a low
cost option for Android. For Delphi, SA is essential nowadays - it only
costs me about $550/year for Pro + Mobile and for what I get is an
absolute bargain. It's certainly a lot less than my brother's golf
membership :-)

Cheers, Bob
Mike Margerum

Posts: 570
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 5:40 PM   in response to: Andy Vines in response to: Andy Vines

I don't think you can put all the blame on Embacadero although I also don't like the way they are moving forwards with there business model, some of the blame has to also go to Apple, they have sucked so many people in with iThis and iThat and by not keeping backwards capability they keep sales up.
I think it's a fair expectation that a product you purchased less than
two years ago would still work?

It's totally irresponsible for EMB to sell the mobile offering outside
of SA. IT doesn't matter who's fault it is.
Asbjørn Heid

Posts: 267
Registered: 11/12/12
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 7:15 PM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:
It's totally irresponsible for EMB to sell the mobile offering outside
of SA.

So much this!

- Asbjørn
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 13, 2014 11:03 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:

It's totally irresponsible for EMB to sell the mobile offering
outside of SA.

I think it's a good idea, but Just imagine the OUTRAGE you'd hear from
(some) people if Embarcadero forced anyone to get SA.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
David Erbas-White

Posts: 200
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 13, 2014 11:11 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
On 11/13/2014 11:03 AM, Bruce McGee wrote:
Mike Margerum wrote:

It's totally irresponsible for EMB to sell the mobile offering
outside of SA.

I think it's a good idea, but Just imagine the OUTRAGE you'd hear from
(some) people if Embarcadero forced anyone to get SA.

I agree with you. What would be the point of forcing SA at the
beginning, because the OP's complaint is that he's more than one year
but less than two years into his ownership of XE4. Even if they had
required the first year of SA, it would have been his choice to renew
the SA for the second year, negating the 'forced purchase' of SA in the
first place.

I do, however, think that there should be some sort of (enforced) grace
period, and probably it would be prudent if the first year of SA were
included, at no charge, with the initial product purchase. I could make
the argument that it should be 'legally required', but that raises the
whole ugly issue of software warranties.

If one views a one-year SA contract as the equivalent of a '1 year
warranty' on the product, it makes more sense for the customer, as then
they're not caught in the came of trying to purchase RAD Studio at just
the right time. As it stands now, users have to run through multiple
scenarios (if they're not choosing to purchase SA) in terms of things
like: Will there be a new release soon? Will there be a new release of
a supported OS (i.e., iOS development) that renders the current version
inoperable? Will prices be dropping soon? Will prices be rising soon?
Will there be an upgrade amnesty? Will there be no further upgrade
amnesties? Etc...

David Erbas-White
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 13, 2014 12:12 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
I think Recharge is a pretty good middle ground.

If they don't want to get SA and decide not to take advantage of
Recharge, then they have to pay the upgrade cost.

At some point, people have to take responsibility for their own
decisions.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Dec 2, 2014 8:27 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
I think recharge is a good deal but it should be based not on the previous
version but on a
two years time period.
Dominique Willems

Posts: 588
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Dec 2, 2014 9:26 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert Padilla wrote:
I think recharge is a good deal but it should be based not on the
previous version but on a
two years time period.

Let's make it four and we have a deal!
Gilbert Padilla

Posts: 315
Registered: 3/8/04
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Dec 2, 2014 9:33 AM   in response to: Dominique Willems in response to: Dominique Willems
Let's make it four and we have a deal!

Sure why not?, and sale it with a Mac so the hardware is outdated before the
4 years past < ;) >
Dominique Willems

Posts: 588
Registered: 10/26/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Dec 2, 2014 9:36 AM   in response to: Gilbert Padilla in response to: Gilbert Padilla
Gilbert Padilla wrote:
Sure why not?, and sale it with a Mac so the hardware is outdated
before the 4 years past < ;) >

Absolutely. A raincoat always comes in handy.
John Frazier


Posts: 726
Registered: 2/17/00
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 13, 2014 12:25 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Mike Margerum wrote:

It's totally irresponsible for EMB to sell the mobile offering
outside of SA.

I think it's a good idea, but Just imagine the OUTRAGE you'd hear from
(some) people if Embarcadero forced anyone to get SA.

There are also a number of legal ramifications. Hence why we try to give folks as many options like recharge, Appmethod, etc. Hopefully they can find some combo that suits their needs and budget better.
--
John Frazier (Embarcadero Newsgroup Admin)
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,589
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Dec 2, 2014 3:18 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:


I don't think you can put all the blame on Embacadero although I
also don't like the way they are moving forwards with there
business model, some of the blame has to also go to Apple, they
have sucked so many people in with iThis and iThat and by not
keeping backwards capability they keep sales up.
I think it's a fair expectation that a product you purchased less
than two years ago would still work?

Sure, with the same OS and same Xcode environment, it does probably
still work. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 5:40 AM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
There's a pretty good upgrade offer running until Nov 21.

http://www.embarcadero.com/radoffer?cid=701G0000000WLhl

--
Regards
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Clement Doss

Posts: 126
Registered: 9/19/00
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 6:09 AM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
Hi Mark,

While I agree that this is not fair, it's also true that EMB cannot predict what's coming up in the mobile market.
This technology barely gets into the market and there's already another version at work. The efforts EMB must do to keep up is rather large. Even with 2 major releases per year, there are still features that will be missed.
For those who are not hobbyist, getting a subscription is the only way to keep up.
While EMB is doing their part offering discounts to update to the latest, in 6 months XE8 will be out with new features and bug fixes. So I'm afraid to say that event with XE7 you will have problems supporting future version of iOS and Android. (Mainly versions that will be release after XE7)
On the other hand, XE7 is more mature and stable than XE4, so your mobile products would benefit from the upgrade. Being a hobbyist you might not need every feature included in XE7 (or XE8) so it's up to you to check what mobile features are required and ask which IDE is stable to use it.

HTH,
Clément
Uffe Kousgaard

Posts: 206
Registered: 2/7/00
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 6:19 AM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
Mark Bell wrote:

Not much over a year has gone by since I purchased Delphi XE4,
together with the Mobile Add On Pack.

The mobile platform is moving so fast, that you need to stay current
with the development tools. And sign up for SA.

If it is only a hobby, it may feel expensive and cheaper options are
available, I think.

With win/VCL you can easily use a very old Delphi-version for
development. The oldest I still use for one project is D5 from 1999.

Eli M

Posts: 1,324
Registered: 11/9/13
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 6:21 AM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
When you play in Apple's sandbox you have to pay the Apple tax. Unfortunately, for those of us that don't like renting software everything is moving to a subscription model. Being able to buy Delphi 7 and then use it for 12 years is no longer the reality of the software industry. There isn't really a haven from the costs of cross platform device tools provided by companies. Delphi/Appmethod pricing is fair and even on the lower end cost wise when you compare it with other similar tools.

Android developer license $25/once
IOS developer license $99/year +$300/year Enterprise

Appmethod $600/year (Android and IOS)
Xamarin $600-$3792/year (Android and IOS)
Adobe AIR $239.88/year (Android, IOS, Windows, Mac)
Delphi $2026/1st year. $468/year after that. (Android, IOS, Windows, Mac)
XCode $499-$2999/one time (a Mac is required*) (IOS and Mac)
Android Studio/Eclipse $0/year (Android)
Unity3d $900-$2700/year (Android, IOS, Windows, Mac, +)

Android developer license $1.04/m for 2 years
IOS developer license $8.25/m-$33.33/m for 2 years

Appmethod $50/m for 2 years
Xamarin $50/m-$316/m for 2 years
Adobe AIR $19.99/m for 2 years
Delphi $103.91/m for 2 years
XCode $20.79/m-$124.95/m for 2 years
Android Studio/Eclipse $0/m for 2 years
Unity3d $75/m-$225/m for 2 years

* A Mac is required for Xcode which is the cost that I've listed. It is possible to use all of the other tools without owning a Mac (by using MacInCloud) which has some cost but it is lower than owning a Mac.

Graham Stratford

Posts: 19
Registered: 10/23/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 8:46 AM   in response to: Eli M in response to: Eli M
Eli M wrote:
When you play in Apple's sandbox you have to pay the Apple tax. Unfortunately, for those of us that don't like renting software everything is moving to a subscription model. Being able to buy Delphi 7 and then use it for 12 years is no longer the reality of the software industry. There isn't really a haven from the costs of cross platform device tools provided by companies. Delphi/Appmethod pricing is fair and even on the lower end cost wise when you compare it with other similar tools.

Android developer license $25/once
IOS developer license $99/year +$300/year Enterprise

Appmethod $600/year (Android and IOS)
Xamarin $600-$3792/year (Android and IOS)
Adobe AIR $239.88/year (Android, IOS, Windows, Mac)
Delphi $2026/1st year. $468/year after that. (Android, IOS, Windows, Mac)
XCode $499-$2999/one time (a Mac is required*) (IOS and Mac)
Android Studio/Eclipse $0/year (Android)
Unity3d $900-$2700/year (Android, IOS, Windows, Mac, +)

Android developer license $1.04/m for 2 years
IOS developer license $8.25/m-$33.33/m for 2 years

Appmethod $50/m for 2 years
Xamarin $50/m-$316/m for 2 years
Adobe AIR $19.99/m for 2 years
Delphi $103.91/m for 2 years
XCode $20.79/m-$124.95/m for 2 years
Android Studio/Eclipse $0/m for 2 years
Unity3d $75/m-$225/m for 2 years

Basic4Android (http://www.basic4ppc.com) is another option. Of course, you don't get to use Pascal, but it's about $100 for a two-year subscription (i.e. all updates are free for that period, but you can still use the software after that). Support is exceptional. The main developer answers questions on their forums all the time, and updates are very quick.

They have just (today) released Basic4iOS (http://www.basic4ppc.com/android/b4i.html), also $100 for two years. You can use the same back-end code as for Android, but of course the UI has to be developed for iOS. You can even use it without a Mac, as you can upload a project to their server which will compile it into an AppStore-ready executable.

There's also a free Basic4Java (http://www.basic4ppc.com/android/b4j.html), which allows you to make desktop Java applications.

To me, much as I love Pascal and Delphi, this makes much more sense for the hobbyist.

(Search around on the Internet, and you can often find 50% off deals for B4A)

Edited by: Graham Stratford on Nov 12, 2014 8:47 AM
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 8,905
Registered: 12/23/01
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck [Edit]
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 10:40 AM   in response to: Graham Stratford in response to: Graham Stratford
Graham wrote:

There's also a free Basic4Java
(http://www.basic4ppc.com/android/b4j.html), which allows you
to make desktop Java applications.

Let's not forget FreePascal/Lazarus, which are free and do support Android
development using Pascal (which gets compiled to native Java bytecode).

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Eduardo Elias

Posts: 319
Registered: 9/20/12
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 6:29 AM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
You should contact them directly, this forum is not really monitored by them.

Anyways, if you compare Microsoft tools, the paid options, the price is the
same or much higher.

Sure there is the free editions for hobbist, but unless EMB gets money they
will get stuck. and this market is hard.

And that is another good way to see that Apple is no viable as a commercial
partner.... get and upgrade and go for android... ;)

Dear Embarcadero.

Not much over a year has gone by since I purchased Delphi XE4,
together with the Mobile Add On Pack.

I'm a hobby programmer. By my own admittance, I'm not particularly
good at it, but nonetheless, it's my hobby and I enjoy it.

However - having purchased the above products in an attempt to try my
hand at creating an iOS program, I now find that I can no-longer
achieve this as you (Embarcadero) have simply abandoned all support
for XE4 when it comes to helping me create anything for iOS.

As soon as XCode 5 in all its versions was released, we XE4 users
could only watch as the rest of the Embarcadero world sailed away into
the distance.

With the introduction of Yosemite, even my XCode 4 has stopped
working, so I'm completely stumped as to what to do.

I have searched and searched the internet looking for solutions, but
all in vain.

It seems though, that there is no solution, and even if there was, it
would be pointless because Apple will soon not be accepting any apps
to their app store that don't meet the minimum requirement of SDK7.

So - in essence, you have sold me products that you won't / don't
support, literally only months after they were introduced.

You offer me no way to update my setup, other than to give you yet
more money - but why would I even think to do that when you won't be
supporting the products that I purchase within months? In effect -
Delphi XE4 users have been abandoned by your policies and corporate
greed.

No attempt has been made by your company to come up with a solution.
You are a disgrace. XE7 users watch out - within 2 years you will also
be in the same position, and Mr. Embarcadero will be asking you to buy
the latest incantation of the lame duck series.

I expect nothing from this company other than more attempts to squeeze
my hard earned money out of my pocket. I can assure them, I won't be
sending any of it their way ever again. Objective C - here I come.
David Millington

Posts: 257
Registered: 5/29/05
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 7:47 AM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
Mark Bell wrote:
Dear Embarcadero.

Not much over a year has gone by since I purchased Delphi XE4, together with the Mobile Add On Pack.
...
You offer me no way to update my setup, other than to give you yet more money - but why would I even think to do that when you won't be supporting the products that I purchase within months? In effect - Delphi XE4 users have been abandoned by your policies and corporate greed.
No attempt has been made by your company to come up with a solution. You are a disgrace. XE7 users watch out - within 2 years you will also be in the same position, and Mr. Embarcadero will be asking you to buy the latest incantation of the lame duck series.
I expect nothing from this company other than more attempts to squeeze my hard earned money out of my pocket. I can assure them, I won't be sending any of it their way ever again. Objective C - here I come.

I understand your pain.

Don't forget, with Delphi you need to use the latest versions in order to get updates. That's why they sell you SA, and with that you get the guarantee of getting every up to date version, and fixes and patches. That's what it's for. If you had bought that, you would now be using XE7. Since you didn't, you're stuck on XE4. I don't mean to blame you - having to buy the package to keep up to date on top of the product itself is a lot to ask - but that's how it works.

You may be able to ask them for a nice upgrade deal, and this time buy software assurance.

I think characterising it as corporate greed is a mistake. They only support the latest version (which is fair; many software companies do the same thing, for good reasons.) They offer you the chance to always have the latest version. If you turn that down, that's your choice. Harsh now when you realise your mistake, and I think they should offer you some way to get back up to date, just for good will. And it wouldn't matter so much if you were writing only for, say, Win32. iOS and OSX are rapidly-changing targets, though, so you do need to subscribe to the updates.

A couple of questions: in what way have they not attempted to come up with a solution? Have you been in contact with them to ask about an upgrade to the latest version? Or to discuss misunderstandings, if you thought XE4 would be supported after XE5+ was released? Depends who you get on the other end, but some of them can be very understanding. (And some not. I've had one particular support conversation... argh.) But give it a go.

Also, XE5 had already been out for two or three months this time last year - how come you only have XE4?

Cheers,

David
Luigi Sandon

Posts: 345
Registered: 10/15/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 7:57 AM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
Delphi is late to adopt latest Windows technologies too - it's just lucky Microsoft doesn't require an SDK version nor stops older application running <G> - after all it dropped 16 bit applications only in 64 bit OS versions, so you just can't use Delphi 1 anymore.... although some older IDE may have issue running in latest versions of Windows because of some bad choices about where to write files and attempts to register fonts from the temp directory...

Mobile walled gardens became a huge revenue source for those controlling them - both from app users and developers - if you want to code for them you have do adapt - or switch to a platform offering free tools.

Unless you have good reasons to use Delphi for iOS development - say sharing code with other non iOS applications and glue them with some Delphi backend maybe already existing - IMHO it's not the right choice. It's expensive, it's barely supported (unless you spend more money subscribing to SA), doesn't create truly native iOS applications due to its use of FireMonkey to imitate a real iOS UI.

It's far better to learn and use XCode/Objective-C directly. You get truly native iOS applications, enjoy learning something new, and is not overly expensive.
Markus Humm

Posts: 4,958
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 11:01 AM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
Am 12.11.2014 16:57, schrieb Luigi Sandon:
Delphi is late to adopt latest Windows technologies too - it's just lucky Microsoft doesn't require an SDK version nor stops older application running <G> - after all it dropped 16 bit applications only in 64 bit OS versions, so you just can't use Delphi 1 anymore.... although some older IDE may have issue running in latest versions of Windows because of some bad choices about where to write files and attempts to register fonts from the temp directory...

Mobile walled gardens became a huge revenue source for those controlling them - both from app users and developers - if you want to code for them you have do adapt - or switch to a platform offering free tools.

Unless you have good reasons to use Delphi for iOS development - say sharing code with other non iOS applications and glue them with some Delphi backend maybe already existing - IMHO it's not the right choice. It's expensive, it's barely supported (unless you spend more money subscribing to SA), doesn't create truly native iOS applications due to its use of FireMonkey to imitate a real iOS UI.

It's far better to learn and use XCode/Objective-C directly. You get truly native iOS applications, enjoy learning something new, and is not overly expensive.

Hello,

using XCopde/Objective-C is only better if you don't intend to share
code with other platforms like Android later on.

Nobody needed yet another language at the time Apple created all this
iOS and Mac OS X stuff.

Greetings

Markus
Brandon Staggs

Posts: 631
Registered: 3/3/01
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 2:03 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
"Markus Humm" wrote on Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:01:35 -0800:

Nobody needed yet another language at the time Apple created all this
iOS and Mac OS X stuff.

Objective-C and XCode was not a creation of Apple. The only reason
anyone is using it today is because NeXT chose it and Steve Jobs had
to salvage something out of that utter disaster when he came back to
Apple after blowing through so much money with NeXT. XCode is just
the current version of Project Builder.

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
Markus Humm

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Registered: 11/9/03
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 13, 2014 10:34 AM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
Am 12.11.2014 23:03, schrieb Brandon Staggs:
"Markus Humm" wrote on Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:01:35 -0800:

Nobody needed yet another language at the time Apple created all this
iOS and Mac OS X stuff.

Objective-C and XCode was not a creation of Apple. The only reason
anyone is using it today is because NeXT chose it and Steve Jobs had
to salvage something out of that utter disaster when he came back to
Apple after blowing through so much money with NeXT. XCode is just
the current version of Project Builder.

Hello,

I know that XCode stems from next. But it wasn't really necessary to
keep it alive to have yet another programming language.

Greetings

Markus
Brandon Staggs

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Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 15, 2014 5:34 AM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
"Markus Humm" wrote on Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:34:00 -0800:

I know that XCode stems from next. But it wasn't really necessary to
keep it alive to have yet another programming language.

I agree it wasn't "necessary" and I would go further to say that the
language and whole platform/framework was manifestly inferior to the
alternatives of the time, but that isn't relevant to, well, anything.
Job's reality distortion field was in full effect and it is what Apple
ended up using, and their success with iOS means it is what lots of
people have to use now.

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
Markus Humm

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Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 15, 2014 7:52 AM   in response to: Brandon Staggs in response to: Brandon Staggs
Am 15.11.2014 14:34, schrieb Brandon Staggs:
"Markus Humm" wrote on Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:34:00 -0800:

I know that XCode stems from next. But it wasn't really necessary to
keep it alive to have yet another programming language.

I agree it wasn't "necessary" and I would go further to say that the
language and whole platform/framework was manifestly inferior to the
alternatives of the time, but that isn't relevant to, well, anything.
Job's reality distortion field was in full effect and it is what Apple
ended up using, and their success with iOS means it is what lots of
people have to use now.

Unfortunatelly I have to agree with you (which is of course not
unfortunate because of you! ;-) )

Greetings

Markus
Mike Margerum

Posts: 570
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 12, 2014 5:43 PM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
I can assure them, I won't be sending any of it their way ever again. Objective C - here I come.

I'd suggest using Swift at this point.

Also, keep an eye on the Xamarin C# offering. They've beefed up the
"indie" version and visual studio 2013 "Community edition" is free as of
today.
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Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 14, 2014 6:39 PM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
Hi,

I went through the same thing. I am hobby programmer in delphi since 2006. I had the Free Turbo Explorer and even a Delphi 5 Standard Edition which came with a book. Now i know that those tools would have sufficed a hobby level exploration of Delphi but sometimes we get a kick out of spending something on hobby. There were always other cheaper tools but i always liked Pascal, don't know why. I just understood this is not the only place i have spent $1000+ with not much extra output and moved on. Delphi Mobile Dev in its current form is not for hobby.

Hopes this helps.
Markus Humm

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Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 15, 2014 7:53 AM   in response to: Guest in response to: Guest
Am 15.11.2014 03:39, schrieb kanwalpal flora:
Hi,

I went through the same thing. I am hobby programmer in delphi since 2006. I had the Free Turbo Explorer and even a Delphi 5 Standard Edition which came with a book. Now i know that those tools would have sufficed a hobby level exploration of Delphi but sometimes we get a kick out of spending something on hobby. There were always other cheaper tools but i always liked Pascal, don't know why. I just understood this is not the only place i have spent $1000+ with not much extra output and moved on. Delph
i Mobile Dev in its current form is not for hobby.

Hopes this helps.

Hello,

did you already see Appwave and it's prices?
That might be better suited for your hobby price level...

Greetings

Markus
Bruce McGee

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Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 15, 2014 8:21 AM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Markus Humm wrote:

did you already see Appwave and it's prices?
That might be better suited for your hobby price level...

Did you mean appmethod?

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Markus Humm

Posts: 4,958
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 16, 2014 1:34 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Am 15.11.2014 17:21, schrieb Bruce McGee:
Markus Humm wrote:

did you already see Appwave and it's prices?
That might be better suited for your hobby price level...

Did you mean appmethod?

Hello,

aehem, yes sure! ;-)

Greetings

Markus
Mark Bell

Posts: 2
Registered: 2/25/13
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 15, 2014 5:21 AM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
Hello all, and thanks for the answers and suggestions.

However, I just want to say that my gripe is not satisfied (not for lack of effort on your collective part - I might add).
Embarcadero sold me software which was designed to aid me in the creation of iOS programs / apps amongst other things.
They didn't sell me software, and I sure as hell didn't want software, that was designed to aid me in the aforementioned for a limited period of time only.
When I paid my "hard-earned", it was under the impression that I would be able to eventually port my apps, whatever the quality, to a real device.
That is now no-longer possible.
This is akin to Ford selling you their latest and greatest SUV and 2 years later saying we can't support you with spares because we're now making a much improved all singing all dancing SUV. Unlucky old chap. You'll just have to buy the latest model.
This is not about Embarcadero keeping up with the Jones' (Apple) - it's about them leaving the poor souls (me) to either put up or shove off.
Okay - I can still manage to do something for the Mac or Windows should I care to do so, but that really isn't the point. Embarcardo are selling software that quickly becomes not fit for purpose. There's the rub. Not fit for purpose!
Gripe over. Many thanks to all again for taking the time to comment.

On another subject - does anyone have experience with HTML5 Builder?
I bought it at the same time as XE4, but I didn't really do anything with it because I was totally lost with PHP and JavaScript.
If anyone has links to beginners tutorials, I'd be much obliged.

Many thanks
David Erbas-White

Posts: 200
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 15, 2014 9:07 AM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
On 11/15/2014 5:21 AM, Mark Bell wrote:

Embarcadero sold me software which was designed to aid me in the creation of iOS programs / apps amongst other things.
They didn't sell me software, and I sure as hell didn't want software, that was designed to aid me in the aforementioned for a limited period of time only.
When I paid my "hard-earned", it was under the impression that I would be able to eventually port my apps, whatever the quality, to a real device.
That is now no-longer possible.
This is akin to Ford selling you their latest and greatest SUV and 2 years later saying we can't support you with spares because we're now making a much improved all singing all dancing SUV. Unlucky old chap. You'll just have to buy the latest model.
This is not about Embarcadero keeping up with the Jones' (Apple) - it's about them leaving the poor souls (me) to either put up or shove off.

This isn't unique to Embarcadero, and isn't just limited to software.

On May 15th of this year, I purchased a Surface Pro 2 from Microsoft
(directly from them at a Microsoft store). There was no special sale,
no special price, but I needed it for work (i.e., needed a small but
fully-featured Windows 8 tablet for travel). Five days later (May
20th), they announced the Surface 3, which had a much larger screen, etc.

Didn't get any cooperation from Microsoft sales folks at first pass, and
decided not to push it as with restocking charges, already having
installed all my software, etc., it just didn't seem worth the hassle.

Fast forward to today, not even SIX MONTHS later, and I find I need to
get a spare power supply (or two) for the unit. Good luck! Even going
to Microsoft's own website and putting the part number for the power
supply directly into search won't find one. None of the local stores
have one. I found Best Buy had one available when I went online, then
was told I'd have to pick it up at the store, then when I tried to order
it was told that they didn't really have it anymore (even though it
still shows up in inventory -- but rants about Best Buy deserve their
own thread).

Finally found an exorbitantly priced one through an Amazon seller.
Hopefully it will be an actual working, new product, and not some used
item, or knock-off/clone of the power supply.

But the point is, here's a MAJOR company, with a limited hardware
product line (the Surface products), that can't even provide a
replacement power supply six months later...

And let's not get into the fact that it's a unique, one-off connector,
not used in any other product on the planet...

David Erbas-White
Adem Meda

Posts: 485
Registered: 12/28/98
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 16, 2014 1:35 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

Fast forward to today, not even SIX MONTHS later, and I find I need to
get a spare power supply (or two) for the unit. Good luck! Even going
to Microsoft's own website and putting the part number for the power
supply directly into search won't find one. None of the local stores
have one. I found Best Buy had one available when I went online, then
was told I'd have to pick it up at the store, then when I tried to order
it was told that they didn't really have it anymore (even though it
still shows up in inventory -- but rants about Best Buy deserve their
own thread).

Isn't this one what you need?

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-48W-Power-Supply-with-USB-Charging-Port/productID.264828700?WT.mc_id=FY13WinHH

I am not saying the price isn't exhorbitant, but apparently it is the one for
Surface Pro 2 and that it is available.
David Erbas-White

Posts: 200
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 16, 2014 11:14 AM   in response to: Adem Meda in response to: Adem Meda
On 11/16/2014 1:35 AM, Adem Meda wrote:
David Erbas-White wrote:

Fast forward to today, not even SIX MONTHS later, and I find I need to
get a spare power supply (or two) for the unit. Good luck! Even going
to Microsoft's own website and putting the part number for the power
supply directly into search won't find one. None of the local stores
have one. I found Best Buy had one available when I went online, then
was told I'd have to pick it up at the store, then when I tried to order
it was told that they didn't really have it anymore (even though it
still shows up in inventory -- but rants about Best Buy deserve their
own thread).

Isn't this one what you need?

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-48W-Power-Supply-with-USB-Charging-Port/productID.264828700?WT.mc_id=FY13WinHH

I am not saying the price isn't exhorbitant, but apparently it is the one for
Surface Pro 2 and that it is available.

That's the right one, but it certainly isn't available (when I click on
your link above the price shows, but no way to purchase it, and reviews
indicate it as 'out of stock' item).

And you did far better than me in trying to locate it... <G>

David Erbas-White
Frederick Wilt

Posts: 38
Registered: 9/27/99
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 15, 2014 8:17 PM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
Mark Bell wrote:
They didn't sell me software, and I sure as hell didn't want software, that was designed to aid me in the aforementioned for a limited period of time only.

Many thanks

Another company moved the target, which was beyond Embarcadero's control.

Embarcardero updated their product to handle the new target.

That sort of thing happens ALL the time in the fast moving world of consumer technology.

I've got an older iPad that cannot be updated to the newer OS and, as a result, cannot run some of the applications I used to run. Why? Because those applications had to be updated to run on the newer OS and they are not backwards compatible.

Should someone give me a new iPad?

When it came to XE4 YOU chose to not follow along and keep your tools up to date.

Sorry, but you made that decision and now you have to live with the consequences.

You cannot blame Embarcadero.
Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 537
Registered: 10/14/04
Re: XE4 - Lame Duck
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  Posted: Nov 16, 2014 3:03 PM   in response to: Mark Bell in response to: Mark Bell
here we go again with another person complaining because they never got onto SA
if you did then you would have be on XE7 by now, which is much better then XE4 for apps
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