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Thread: Responsive UI


This question is not answered. Helpful answers available: 2. Correct answers available: 1.


Permlink Replies: 14 - Last Post: Feb 5, 2018 5:18 PM Last Post By: Shane Stump
Shane Stump

Posts: 138
Registered: 2/16/01
Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Jan 31, 2018 4:15 PM
Howdy All!

I am wondering how my fellow developers have written responsive (modern looking whatever the hell that means) web apps using Intraweb.

I wrote my first web app for my reservation system back in 2009 using TMS Intraweb components. It worked but looked "aged" before long. In 2013 I rewrote my web app using CGDevTools desktop components and then in 2015 I released a second web app using CGDevTools jQueryMobile components.

Many of my customers want an "angular" / "bootstrap" / etc single web application that works the same on ALL devices. I would love to accommodate this, but I am a one man shop and really don't have the time / resources to learn yet another development _.

I have seen the "free" bootstrap component library for IW, but to be honest, I am not interested in using something that will not be supported (i.e. I would rather pay for a product and get great support like IW or CGDevTools).

I am a little worried about CGDevTools because it is based on jQuery UI / Mobile which seems to be in disarray:

https://blog.jqueryui.com/2017/12/the-future-of-jquery-ui-and-jquery-mobile/

So are any of you ONE-MAN shops out there using IW to write applications for the general public that are responsive? IF so, how and could you provide a link. I really would like to get some ideas as I am kind of at my wits end with the web - every 3 to 5 years one has to rewrite the code but my Windows code for the past 15 years still works great and DevExpress keeps it looking modern!

Thanks in advance,

Shane
Jose Nilton Pace


Posts: 122
Registered: 5/15/98
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 1, 2018 2:26 AM   in response to: Shane Stump in response to: Shane Stump
Hi Shane. In the repository we have 3 examples can you use to see the main idea.
This demo uses a simple HTML file:
https://github.com/Atozed/IntraWeb/tree/master/XIV/Delphi/JavaScriptSelect2

This demo uses a MasterTemplate HTML file. I think is better to you:
https://github.com/Atozed/IntraWeb/tree/master/XIV/Delphi/Mailgun

If you have newer Delphi, use Rest demo.
Shane Stump

Posts: 138
Registered: 2/16/01
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 1, 2018 7:05 AM   in response to: Jose Nilton Pace in response to: Jose Nilton Pace
Howdy Jose!

Thanks for responding.

My question is this though:

All my forms are dynamic - that is, the amount of data / possibly new controls are added / removed on the fly.

I have learned over the years how to do this with TMS / CGDevTools components without having to be an expert in CSS/HTML/jQuery (one of the reasons I have loved IW as a solution).

Any how, have y'all considered bringing the "public domain" version of Bootstrap components under the IW team (probably a question for Chad) as it would benefit y'all and IW's customers extremely.

All the best,

Shane
Joel Zimmer

Posts: 68
Registered: 9/24/01
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 2, 2018 8:16 AM   in response to: Shane Stump in response to: Shane Stump
We usually do it with Templates and css, but we have webmaster that handles all of that.

I do know that you can also make it responsive without templates and just using CSS. You have to setup your own framework or find one like bootstrap.
Shane Stump

Posts: 138
Registered: 2/16/01
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 4, 2018 4:59 AM   in response to: Joel Zimmer in response to: Joel Zimmer
Howdy Joel!

Templates may be an answer if I can convince the new owner of my software.

I appreciate the answer.

All the best,

Shane
Daniel Fields

Posts: 622
Registered: 11/29/04
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 3, 2018 12:36 PM   in response to: Shane Stump in response to: Shane Stump
I do not believe that you can do a 100% automatically responsive IW application. There is no way that the browser can make complex forms render exactly as you like for mobile devices. Your page design would have to be extremely simple for that to work. True responsiveness is a function of a webpage/website, with static content. Any level of complexity or dynamic behavior will require two separate forms. We use Adobe Muse to create websites, and it treats desktop and mobile as two interfaces. The mobile pages can inherit from the desktop, but you are still required to make manual tweaks after they have been created.

I used the TMS iPhone controls for many years. They work well, but the styling is dated. I wound up overriding the style to achieve the look I wanted. I tried the CGDev mobile controls early on, but had to back away because they were so different. I later forced myself to go through the examples and understand how they are intended to be used. I now use them exclusively.

I had to understand that they are intended to be used in a stack, with everything aligned top. They are not like the standard IW controls, or the TMS controls. You are not supposed to use them with Align set to None. If you do that, you will get very poor results, and odd behavior at runtime. I have successfully used them in dynamic settings. Occasionally, I have to turn off the Async property for the event to force a full render of the page.

You also have to use the Theme property on each control to get the styling that you want. I have not explored custom theming, but the controls are supposed to support that as well. I've also made extensive use of the SidePanel controls to extend the functionality of specific pages. The set is not perfect, but it's the most complete mobile interface set available to IW.

I would bet that most people try to use the CGDev mobile controls incorrectly, and then bail on them. I did exactly that. I wasted a few months doing it manually only to get poor results. You have to detect mobile, inject ViewPort tags into the header, and change controls sizes and fonts. It never did exactly what I wanted. You could use CSS, but that to would involve a detection and dynamic changing of control properties.

Until something better comes along I will stick with the CGDev controls.
Shane Stump

Posts: 138
Registered: 2/16/01
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 4, 2018 5:06 AM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Howdy Daniel!

Right now I have a desktop and mobile app with CGDevTools.

If I wrote corporate apps, I would be in GREAT shape!

My application is used by small companies in the tourism business ($3M to $30M). They don't want to spend a lot of money but want my web apps to look and respond like my much LARGER competitors. My apps are used by my customers' customers.

I would love to have a set of responsive components (bootstrap/angular/etc) that worked well with IW and was supported.

The problem is I believe that can only happen if IW itself supplies the components. IMHO, this would make the IW Ultimate edition more financially attractive to potential users and it would give us long time users a feeling of security.

Any how, I am not sure at the moment how I am going to handle this. It is getting hard to ignore it with my customers.

All the best,

Shane
Daniel Fields

Posts: 622
Registered: 11/29/04
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 5, 2018 10:56 AM   in response to: Shane Stump in response to: Shane Stump
How are the CGDev controls hurting your mobile version? What are they complaining about, exactly?
Shane Stump

Posts: 138
Registered: 2/16/01
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 5, 2018 11:27 AM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Daniel Fields wrote:
How are the CGDev controls hurting your mobile version? What are they complaining about, exactly?

Howdy Daniel!

My customers want a consistent UI between desktop and mobile. It should be possible but jQuery Mobile looks like crap once the screen size gets above a mini-tablet.

After I do my taxes today, I am thinking about looking into writing a REST API for my reservation system and try to see about looking for other ways of doing the web for my product.

I need to do the API any how so I might as well JUST DO IT!

All the best,

Shane
Daniel Fields

Posts: 622
Registered: 11/29/04
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 5, 2018 5:06 PM   in response to: Shane Stump in response to: Shane Stump
In cases I force tablets to the full-screen version of the application. I've even given them the option to select the interface they want to access. I use the jQuery mobile for phones only. In one case I used them to create a tablet-specific interface. That allows you to use regions to split the form into a narrow controls region and the rest for workspace. It actually makes for very powerful tablet interface.

Tablet traffic is a small percentage of most traffic anyway. 10% or less is what I see. I've only provided a tablet interface once. They seem to do fine with the desktop interface by scrolling as needed.
Shane Stump

Posts: 138
Registered: 2/16/01
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 5, 2018 5:18 PM   in response to: Daniel Fields in response to: Daniel Fields
Howdy Daniel!

I just got a very GREAT news private message and I think my problems will be solved!

Thanks for the input and have a great evening!

All the best,

Shane
Eitan Arbel

Posts: 508
Registered: 2/24/13
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 3, 2018 9:04 PM   in response to: Shane Stump in response to: Shane Stump
i think you just touched one of the most painful areas of iw14 today - mobile design and responsiveness.

i too wasted a lot of time trying to work with CG, until i understood that it is meant to show only "1 item in a row", so i gave up on it.

today, i use 2 forms for the same functionality - a desktop form and a mobile one (a BaseForm that includes the basic design and menu, and the inherited ones for their different functionalities).
in the mobile's ExtraHeader i added a ViewPort with maximum-scale=1.0, and designed it for Portrait use.

lucky for us, AToZed are fully aware of this inconvenience, so i'm waiting for iw17 for that (and for the many other new features)
Shane Stump

Posts: 138
Registered: 2/16/01
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 4, 2018 5:08 AM   in response to: Eitan Arbel in response to: Eitan Arbel
Howdy Eitan,

lucky for us, AToZed are fully aware of this inconvenience, so i'm waiting for iw17 for that (and for the many other new features)

I am looking forward to IW17 if I can figure out how to survive on the web until then!

All the best,

Shane
Ederson Selvati

Posts: 34
Registered: 12/2/10
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 4, 2018 5:24 AM   in response to: Shane Stump in response to: Shane Stump
Shane Stump wrote:
Howdy Eitan,

lucky for us, AToZed are fully aware of this inconvenience, so i'm waiting for iw17 for that (and for the many other new features)

I am looking forward to IW17 if I can figure out how to survive on the web until then!

All the best,

Shane

Hi Shane

The way is to use Templates, take a look in the banner and see the screenshoots made by some developers in Brazil

https://www.atozed.com/intraweb/

We have used templates like gentelella, ltadmin and others, they are responsives by default.

Ederson
Shane Stump

Posts: 138
Registered: 2/16/01
Re: Responsive UI  
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  Posted: Feb 4, 2018 5:29 AM   in response to: Ederson Selvati in response to: Ederson Selvati
Ederson,

Thanks - I will have to see which way the wind is blowing in my weekly meeting with the new owner of my software.

They just got back from an annual show so I am sure my new walking shoes will be warn out by the end of the week!

Thanks again!

Shane

Edited by: Shane Stump on Feb 5, 2018 6:37 AM
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