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Thread: Bad news for Delphi?


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Permlink Replies: 68 - Last Post: Jun 28, 2016 6:36 AM Last Post By: Ilya S
Bob McKinnon

Posts: 54
Registered: 2/6/05
Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 24, 2016 7:30 AM
Anyone have any more information on layoffs occurring in Embarcadero? See link below

https://plus.google.com/u/0/105481197125997414290/posts/FnLvMteQ4dU
Chad Hower

Posts: 613
Registered: 3/2/07
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 24, 2016 10:08 AM   in response to: Bob McKinnon in response to: Bob McKinnon
On 6/24/2016 10:30 AM, Bob McKinnon wrote:
Anyone have any more information on layoffs occurring in Embarcadero? See link below

https://plus.google.com/u/0/105481197125997414290/posts/FnLvMteQ4dU

So far Idera has been quiet on nearly everything. Not encouraging but
given all the garbage that has happened since the Borland days this
isn't even the worst thing in my memory.

Somehow Delphi always seems to soldier on.

My hope was that when Idera bought EMBT they would sell off Delphi to
some company who fits with dev tools.
Craig van Nieuw...

Posts: 7
Registered: 11/7/99
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 6:10 PM   in response to: Chad Hower in response to: Chad Hower

So far Idera has been quiet on nearly everything. Not encouraging but
given all the garbage that has happened since the Borland days this
isn't even the worst thing in my memory.

They have basically fired 90% of the development team, can't say I can remember much worse than that.


My hope was that when Idera bought EMBT they would sell off Delphi to
some company who fits with dev tools.

That is the best case, but firing the development team does not point in that direction as it would devalue the purchase to a considerable degree.

Craig
Ed Dressel

Posts: 42
Registered: 10/10/99
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 25, 2016 1:48 PM   in response to: Bob McKinnon in response to: Bob McKinnon
Anyone have any more information on layoffs occurring in Embarcadero? See link below

Wow, and no one here championing the cause. Ouch. So quite. This is very concerning. Sigh.
Asbjørn Heid

Posts: 267
Registered: 11/12/12
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 25, 2016 2:22 PM   in response to: Bob McKinnon in response to: Bob McKinnon
Bob McKinnon wrote:
Anyone have any more information on layoffs occurring in Embarcadero? See link below

https://plus.google.com/u/0/105481197125997414290/posts/FnLvMteQ4dU

Allen has some enlightening, albeit depressing, comments there.

And then there's the apparently confirmed rumors that the Delphi team is down to about 8 devs...

Time to brush up on C# I guess.

- Asbjørn
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 1:06 AM   in response to: Asbjørn Heid in response to: Asbjørn Heid

Allen has some enlightening, albeit depressing, comments there.

And then there's the apparently confirmed rumors that the Delphi team is down to about 8 devs...

Time to brush up on C# I guess.

- Asbjørn

wait guy, you point a paper where they say they fired 80 persons (close
emb in spain), but noone say why they do it ! so you miss 50% of the
informations, so you can't say if it's good or bad. maybe they close it
to open a new subsidiary in Ukraine (it's what i hear from the *rumor*)
with 200 people instead ..

last years i didn't fully agree with the emb team from the decision they
took, like moving 8bit string to 16 bit string (one of the worst
decision for me), also like implementing arc on mobile, or like
implement only 16 bit string in mobile (to finally revert and accept
utf8), and some others. So for me fresh blood is not necessarily bad !
but no mistake it is not necessarily good either ! old team did also
many great thinks and i will miss these people !

to conclude i don't say it's good news, i don't say it's a bad new, i
just say i don't know the strategy of idera so better to not speak about it
Asbjørn Heid

Posts: 267
Registered: 11/12/12
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 4:04 AM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki loki wrote:

wait guy, you point a paper where they say they fired 80 persons (close
emb in spain), but noone say why they do it ! so you miss 50% of the
informations, so you can't say if it's good or bad. maybe they close it
to open a new subsidiary in Ukraine (it's what i hear from the *rumor*)
with 200 people instead ..

Read the comments from Allen, without those I'd be a bit more relaxed as well.

- Asbjørn
loki loki

Posts: 787
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 4:41 AM   in response to: Asbjørn Heid in response to: Asbjørn Heid
On 6/26/2016 2:04 PM, Asbjørn Heid wrote:
loki loki wrote:

wait guy, you point a paper where they say they fired 80 persons (close
emb in spain), but noone say why they do it ! so you miss 50% of the
informations, so you can't say if it's good or bad. maybe they close it
to open a new subsidiary in Ukraine (it's what i hear from the *rumor*)
with 200 people instead ..

Read the comments from Allen, without those I'd be a bit more relaxed as well.

- Asbjørn

who is allen? the guy who left emb to go to work for google ? Better
to not read his comments ;)
Asbjørn Heid

Posts: 267
Registered: 11/12/12
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 5:14 AM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki loki wrote:
On 6/26/2016 2:04 PM, Asbjørn Heid wrote:

Read the comments from Allen, without those I'd be a bit more relaxed as well.

- Asbjørn

who is allen? the guy who left emb to go to work for google ? Better
to not read his comments ;)

If you want to live in ignorance, suit yourself. Others might want to read why he left...

- Asbjørn
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 5:24 AM   in response to: Asbjørn Heid in response to: Asbjørn Heid
On 6/26/2016 3:14 PM, Asbjørn Heid wrote:
loki loki wrote:
On 6/26/2016 2:04 PM, Asbjørn Heid wrote:

Read the comments from Allen, without those I'd be a bit more relaxed as well.

- Asbjørn

who is allen? the guy who left emb to go to work for google ? Better
to not read his comments ;)

If you want to live in ignorance, suit yourself. Others might want to read why he left...

- Asbjørn

no, i don't mean this .. i mean people who left a company will be rarely
objective. that a fact ! it's never their fault. it's like a divorce, do
you know a divorce with happy end? so this why i say better to not
listen them (or listen carefully knowing that)

for exemple do you know that in russia/ukraine they are still using
delphi at university? in russia it's quite easy to find a delphi
developpers in your city (and quite impossible in europe without any
relocating). if the rumor to move the team in ex-ussr is true, i think
this is not a bad choice at all !
Asbjørn Heid

Posts: 267
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 6:18 AM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki loki wrote:

for exemple do you know that in russia/ukraine they are still using
delphi at university? in russia it's quite easy to find a delphi
developpers in your city (and quite impossible in europe without any
relocating). if the rumor to move the team in ex-ussr is true, i think
this is not a bad choice at all !

You make it sound like a new team can just jump in there, be productive, and not make a ton of mistakes.

Had they done this transition over several years, then I wouldn't be that worried.

- Asbjørn
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 8:00 AM   in response to: Asbjørn Heid in response to: Asbjørn Heid

You make it sound like a new team can just jump in there, be productive, and not make a ton of mistakes.

Had they done this transition over several years, then I wouldn't be that worried.

yes it's possible! the most part of the work is on the
vcl/rtl/firemonkey. etc... so it's mean on the delphi .pas source code

and any serious delphi developper already work with this source code
from several years now ! they already know it ! no need several years of
transitions ! just better comments in the source code could be good
(what is missing cruelly right now)

about the experience from the mistake, does emb recognise that moving to
16 bit string was a big mistake? NO ... Did they recognise that arc was
also a mistake? No! so what learn from it ?
wenjie zhou

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Registered: 6/28/02
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 10:08 PM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
about the experience from the mistake, does emb recognise that moving to
16 bit string was a big mistake? NO ... Did they recognise that arc was
also a mistake? No! so what learn from it ?

Agree. FireMonkey be there for 4 years and more. And it still buggy. Shouldn't someone take responsibility for it?
Either direction or technical realization. Facts have clearly stated that there is a problem.
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 12:18 PM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
Am 26.06.2016 um 17:00 schrieb loki loki:

You make it sound like a new team can just jump in there, be productive, and not make a ton of mistakes.

Had they done this transition over several years, then I wouldn't be that worried.

yes it's possible! the most part of the work is on the
vcl/rtl/firemonkey. etc... so it's mean on the delphi .pas source code

and any serious delphi developper already work with this source code
from several years now ! they already know it ! no need several years of
transitions ! just better comments in the source code could be good
(what is missing cruelly right now)

about the experience from the mistake, does emb recognise that moving to
16 bit string was a big mistake? NO ... Did they recognise that arc was
also a mistake? No! so what learn from it ?

Hello,

even working 10 years with RTL, VCL and FMX (ok, FMX exists for less
than 10 years) I wouldn't feel comfortable in developing VCL or FMX
components. Simply not the area I'm experienced in.

=> just because some developer used a product for a long time it doesn't
automatically mean he'd be good at working on the foundations of the
product.

Greetings

Markus
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 1:01 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Hello,

even working 10 years with RTL, VCL and FMX (ok, FMX exists for less
than 10 years) I wouldn't feel comfortable in developing VCL or FMX
components. Simply not the area I'm experienced in.

=> just because some developer used a product for a long time it doesn't
automatically mean he'd be good at working on the foundations of the
product.

bah off course 2-6 month of gap with you will need to accomodate :)
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 3:08 AM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Markus Humm wrote:

Am 26.06.2016 um 17:00 schrieb loki loki:

You make it sound like a new team can just jump in there, be
productive, and not make a ton of mistakes.

Had they done this transition over several years, then I wouldn't
be that worried.

yes it's possible! the most part of the work is on the
vcl/rtl/firemonkey. etc... so it's mean on the delphi .pas source
code

and any serious delphi developper already work with this source
code from several years now ! they already know it ! no need
several years of transitions ! just better comments in the source
code could be good (what is missing cruelly right now)

about the experience from the mistake, does emb recognise that
moving to 16 bit string was a big mistake? NO ... Did they
recognise that arc was also a mistake? No! so what learn from it ?

Hello,

even working 10 years with RTL, VCL and FMX (ok, FMX exists for less
than 10 years) I wouldn't feel comfortable in developing VCL or FMX
components. Simply not the area I'm experienced in.

My first Delphi projects were VCL components designed from scratch. I
guess it is where your interests lie.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"We are not retreating - we are advancing in another Direction."
-- General Douglas MacArthur (1880-1964)
Alex Belo

Posts: 626
Registered: 10/8/06
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 9:46 PM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki loki wrote:

for exemple do you know that in russia/ukraine they are still using
delphi at university?

There was sold 1 000 000 copies of RAD2007 (or even 2006?) under
special academic license ~10 years ago.

--
Alex
Remy Lebeau (Te...


Posts: 9,447
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 1:45 PM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki wrote:

who is allen?

Are you serious? Do you really not know who Allen Bauer is?

--
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 3:07 AM   in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te... in response to: Remy Lebeau (Te...
Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:

loki wrote:

who is allen?

Are you serious? Do you really not know who Allen Bauer is?

He doesn't now enalf. <g>

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Heck, I don't age in my mind - people around me just keep
getting younger. :^)"
-- Van Swofford in e.p.delphi.non-technical
Alexandre Machado

Posts: 1,754
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 4:26 AM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
I agree with loki loki. We don't know Idera intentions yet. They could:

1) Keep Delphi and try to make money from it
2) Sell it or open source it
3) Simply kill it

They have just hired a new C++ Builder Product Manager. So I believe that (3) is not in their plans.

1) and 2) can be good or bad depending on various factors... Embarcadero was a better owner than Borland in its last years, although lots of developers have just panicked. So, in the end, the whole Borland -> CodeGear -> Embarcadero turned out to be a good thing for the product. No so good because lots of FUD took place and Delphi lost market share.
Luigi Sandon

Posts: 353
Registered: 10/15/99
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 10:23 AM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
Alexandre Machado wrote:
I agree with loki loki. We don't know Idera intentions yet. They could:

The real issue is exactly we don't know their intentions and like BorInCodEro, they won't ever tell customers. As if in the "social world" news don't spread around quickly. For example one thing is a statement "Idera consolidates development in ******, closes offices in Spain". Another knowing by a Spanish paper Idera fires Delphi developers without telling you, especially when you also pay for maintenance. And that also comes after the news of many developers who left or were fired in the US. So we don't know about Idera intentions, but what is known is a large reduction in experienced Delphi developers, and what offsets it? Why they don't inform customers? Sure nobody ask them to disclose they full plans, but reassuring customers would be in their interests, unless they're in true panic mode, and just look for quick ways to cut expenses.

1) Keep Delphi and try to make money from it

Exactly. For example they can outsource development to cheap developers in a cheaper country to add some "new features" to try keeping on selling it. Without a core developers team at the helm, with an extensive knowledge of the product, it will soon become a Frankenstein product (partly it is already, with a lot of work clearly made by Java/C++ developers), and with lower quality. Would you trust a product developed such a way to build your own products upon? I need to trust my supply chain.

The fact Idera can somehow may still make money may not be reassuring from the customer point of view. I've already seen products taking the kitchen sink way after being acquired (i.e. Paint Shop Pro, after Jasc was acquired by Corel). Maybe Corel can still make money from it... Many simply walked away, among many coding and quality issues. Luckily, there was less lock-in.

2) Sell it or open source it

Probably if they can find a buyer, they will do. Cutting sites and people may make selling it even easier, less burdens for a new owner. Open sourcing it means losing money instead (and IP...), and if it doesn't bring other advantages may be better to

3) Simply kill it

And maybe selling IP piece by piece, if it has still some value.

They have just hired a new C++ Builder Product Manager. So I believe that (3) is not in their plans.

Right, usually a single product manager makes the work of several developers. It just tells they are still interested in selling a product, but what product?

although lots of developers have just panicked.

Well, when you're told "we don't now if there is a place for you in six months", you instantly look for an alternative, to avoid to be forced to panic later. Especially if you have the skills of a Bauer.

But AFAIK many others didn't panicked at all, were just fired. Just like this Spanish people.

So, in the end, the whole Borland -> CodeGear -> Embarcadero turned out to be a good thing for the product.

If you think it... actually, with nobody left, they could try to reboot it. Just it risks to reboot into DOS...

No so good because lots of FUD took place and Delphi lost market share.

When the owner itself fuels FUDs with news like this... and no, Delphi didn't lose market share because of FUD. Simply lots of developers didn't want to pay those high prices for what they got. It's something called "competition", if you deliver something people won't buy because there are other products that deliver more for less, you can't comply about FUD, it won't help you.
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 1:05 PM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon

The real issue is exactly we don't know their intentions and like BorInCodEro, they won't ever tell customers. As if in the "social world" news don't spread around quickly. For example one thing is a statement "Idera consolidates development in ******, closes offices in Spain". Another knowing by a Spanish paper Idera fires Delphi developers without telling you, especially when you also pay for maintenance. And that also comes after the news of many developers who left or were fired in the US. So we don
't know about Idera intentions, but what is known is a large reduction in experienced Delphi developers, and what offsets it? Why they don't inform customers? Sure nobody ask them to disclose they full plans, but reassuring customers would be in their interests, unless they're in true panic mode, and just look for quick ways to cut expenses.

this i agree, would be good to know their plan, at least to reassure all
the customers !

2) Sell it or open source it

Probably if they can find a buyer, they will do. Cutting sites and people may make selling it even easier, less burdens for a new owner. Open sourcing it means losing money instead (and IP...), and if it doesn't bring other advantages may be better to

maybe yes it's the strategy because new owner don't want to cut the site
himself (you know doing this in europe is much much more complicated
than doing this in us).

one of the best alternative will be to make delphi open source. it's not
crazy and it's can be an economic success too.
Alexandre Machado

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 4:22 PM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
although lots of developers have just panicked.

Well, when you're told "we don't now if there is a place for you in six months", you instantly look for an alternative, to avoid to be forced to panic later. Especially if you have the skills of a Bauer.

But AFAIK many others didn't panicked at all, were just fired. Just like this Spanish people.

I was not talking about Embarcadero developers. I was talking about Delphi developers in the old Borland days. You know... at that time, Delphi was still much superior than .NET for desktop applications. Many companies just switched to C# because they were afraid of the outcome. Pure FUD, which didn't realize.
Joseph Mitzen

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 6:51 PM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
Alexandre Machado wrote:
although lots of developers have just panicked.

Well, when you're told "we don't now if there is a place for you in six months", you instantly look for an alternative, to avoid to be forced to panic later. Especially if you have the skills of a Bauer.

But AFAIK many others didn't panicked at all, were just fired. Just like this Spanish people.

I was not talking about Embarcadero developers. I was talking about Delphi developers in the old Borland days. You know... at that time, Delphi was still much superior than .NET for desktop applications. Many companies just switched to C# because they were afraid of the outcome. Pure FUD, which didn't realize.

Last I checked, C# was a huge player in software development and Delphi had niche status, so those people who switched early got out while it was still easy. Heck, Borland itself abandoned Delphi because they saw that there wasn't going to be money to be made in the future in software development tools, particularly proprietary languages. With Microsoft open sourcing C# and Apple open sourcing Swift it's undeniable now that the days of proprietary general-purpose programming languages are gone. Even in areas related to mathematical programming open source R is dominating while SAS, SPSS, etc. have lost significant market share.
Lars Fosdal


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 12:11 AM   in response to: Joseph Mitzen in response to: Joseph Mitzen
Joseph Mitzen wrote:
Last I checked, C# was a huge player in software development and Delphi had niche status, so those people who switched early got out while it was still easy. Heck, Borland itself abandoned Delphi because they saw that there wasn't going to be money to be made in the future in software development tools, particularly proprietary languages. With Microsoft open sourcing C# and Apple open sourcing Swift it's undeniable now that the days of proprietary general-purpose programming languages are gone. Even in areas related to mathematical programming open source R is dominating while SAS, SPSS, etc. have lost significant market share.

C#/.net isn't free of blemishes.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2467082/data-center/london-stock-exchange-to-abandon-failed-windows-platform.html

"The TradElect software itself is a custom blend of C# and .NET programs, which was created by Microsoft and Accenture, the global consulting firm. On the back-end, it relied on Microsoft SQL Server 2000. Its goal was to maintain sub-ten millisecond response times, real-time system speeds, for stock trades. It never, ever came close to achieving these performance goals."

It was replaced by a C++/Linux based platform.

The fact that Delphi is a "closed" source system, does not take away from the fact that well written Delphi applications can live for decades. Yes, it is a small eco-system, but it is a reasonably solid tool. No, it is not without flaws, and it isn't the right choice for every problem - but it is a good allround tool, even if being a niche tool. Cost per line of code is really low. Cost of debugging is really low. Readability and maintainability is high.

For a corporate developer like myself, it is worth every cent. The subscription cost of this tool is dwarfed by the cost of SQL servers and database, backup, surveillance and OS management tools.

--
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Delphi Developers Google+ Community: https://plus.google.com/communities/103113685381486591754 (7300+ members)
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 3:11 AM   in response to: Joseph Mitzen in response to: Joseph Mitzen
Joseph Mitzen wrote:

Alexandre Machado wrote:
although lots of developers have just panicked.

Well, when you're told "we don't now if there is a place for you
in six months", you instantly look for an alternative, to avoid
to be forced to panic later. Especially if you have the skills of
a Bauer.

But AFAIK many others didn't panicked at all, were just fired.
Just like this Spanish people.

I was not talking about Embarcadero developers. I was talking about
Delphi developers in the old Borland days. You know... at that
time, Delphi was still much superior than .NET for desktop
applications. Many companies just switched to C# because they were
afraid of the outcome. Pure FUD, which didn't realize.

Last I checked, C# was a huge player in software development and
Delphi had niche status, so those people who switched early got out
while it was still easy. Heck, Borland itself abandoned Delphi
because they saw that there wasn't going to be money to be made in
the future in software development tools

Having experienced this from nearby, ISTM that Borland simply wanted to
be a grand player in the meta-programming market. It was more a result
of hybris than a result of proper management, IMO, that they
concentrated on new markets hoping to sell to big players.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"I never would have agreed to the formulation of the Central
Intelligence Agency back in forty-seven, if I had known it
would become the American Gestapo."
-- Harry S Truman, 1961
Alexandre Machado

Posts: 1,754
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 5:15 PM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
They have just hired a new C++ Builder Product Manager. So I believe that (3) is not in their plans.

Right, usually a single product manager makes the work of several developers. It just tells they are still interested in selling a product, but what product?

If they are actually changing 3 junior devs by David Millington, then I agree that it might be good indeed.

No so good because lots of FUD took place and Delphi lost market share.

and no, Delphi didn't lose market share because of FUD. Simply lots of developers didn't want to pay those high prices for what they got. It's something called "competition"

This is your point of view. You don't have any real data to prove your point, unless your own - of course - limited personal knowledge about Delphi market. And so do I.
I lived in a city with several big development companies using Delphi. Most, if not all, paid a higher price when they switched to VS. A few regret this decision years later, although this is a one way road.
Visual Studio has never been free for those big companies (which just can't use the free VS licenses) and the price tag was never on the top reasons to leave Delphi. The main reason back in the Borland/CodeGear times has been always "we don't know if Delphi will still be around in 2 years".
Joseph Mitzen

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 7:07 PM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
Alexandre Machado wrote:

I lived in a city with several big development companies using Delphi.

None of us will have ever heard of these companies. Name a major international company that relies on Delphi for their internal infrastructure - Google? Facebook? Instagram? Apple? Microsoft?

I can name some big banks using COBOL, but only because their software is 30+ years old. Name a major company banking on Delphi for new projects. Name an international company willing to risk their internal infrastructure on Delphi. I've heard it said that a language hasn't achieved success until an international company uses it for an internal infrastructure project (D just crossed this threshold with Facebook deciding to use it for some new projects). What international company uses Delphi for ifrastructure projects?

Name a start-up that's used Delphi in the last five years.

I can't believe we're still entertaining the notion that Delphi is some sort of market-dominating juggernaut. Do you still think there are 3 million active, paying Delphi users too?

Delphi is a niche player with a small cadre of legacy developers still paying for it. Business today uses Java, C++ or C# for its development, depending on the type of project and targeted platform(s). Desktop development itself is a minority field and continues to shrink, as the last several years of Stack Overflow developer surveys show. It's not the huge money maker you imagine it to be.

Most, if not all, paid a higher price when they switched to VS. A few regret this decision years later, although this is a one way road.

Nobody's cursing using the most successful IDE on the Windows platform. No one "paid a price" for going with the winner who wiped away all competition. Visual Studio is king on Windows. No VS C# or C++ developer is complaining about a lack of jobs or people laughing at their resume, crying to the heavens "If only I stuck with Pascal! Why God? Why does Microsoft give me all of these development tools for free? WHY?!?!" :-)

Visual Studio has never been free for those big companies (which just can't use the free VS licenses)

And Delphi has never been in those big companies in the first place, period. It's remaining niche is 1-5 developer shops. If it's in bigger companies, it's to maintain some piece of legacy software (much like Visual Basic). Now Visual Studio is free for 1-5 developer shops and Xamarin is free for everybody. There's simply no way, shape or form for Delphi to compete on price when people can get - well, it's not just the market leader, more like the market standard - for 1/5 the price for big companies and free for everyone else.

and the price tag was never on the top reasons to leave Delphi.

I bought a complete new computer system, including peripherals, for under the price of one new copy of Delphi Professional. Throw in Enterprise and all the other tools and libraries you need for serious Delphi development and you can also get a nice new slim 17" gaming laptop with PCIe SSD, an unlocked flagship smart phone,and have cash left over. People just don't pay thousands of dollars for development tools anymore. When I asked this in a poll on Google Plus' programming group, I believe over 60% chose "No, there's no need to" when asked if they would use a proprietary language. Only 10% said they already do. In fact, many younger developers ASKED WHAT A PROPRIETARY LANGUAGE WAS. When I explained it to them the first response I got was, "Wow, there aren't too many of those around anymore, are there?"
Dave Nottage

Posts: 1,850
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 11:34 PM   in response to: Joseph Mitzen in response to: Joseph Mitzen
Joseph Mitzen wrote:

Name a major international company that relies on Delphi for their internal infrastructure

WideOrbit is a pretty major international company. AFAIK, not quite in the league of the others you mentioned, however.

I can't believe we're still entertaining the notion that Delphi is some sort of market-dominating juggernaut.

I doubt that any sane person is entertaining that notion, or ever has.

Do you still think there are 3 million active, paying Delphi users too?

Since the active paying user count is usually kept under wraps, no-one outside of EMBT could say with absolute
certainty that there isn't.

--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
Hints, tips and tricks at: http://www.delphiworlds.com/blog
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 12:53 AM   in response to: Dave Nottage in response to: Dave Nottage

Do you still think there are 3 million active, paying Delphi users too?

Since the active paying user count is usually kept under wraps, no-one outside of EMBT could say with absolute
certainty that there isn't.

3 millions or 3000 doesn't matter: quantity not mean quality ! :)
Olivier Sannier

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 5:07 AM   in response to: Joseph Mitzen in response to: Joseph Mitzen
Joseph Mitzen wrote:
Alexandre Machado wrote:

I lived in a city with several big development companies using Delphi.

None of us will have ever heard of these companies. Name a major international company that relies on Delphi for their internal infrastructure - Google? Facebook? Instagram? Apple? Microsoft?

I can name some big banks using COBOL, but only because their software is 30+ years old. Name a major company banking on Delphi for new projects. Name an international company willing to risk their internal infrastructure on Delphi. I've heard it said that a language hasn't achieved success until an international company uses it for an internal infrastructure project (D just crossed this threshold with Facebook deciding to use it for some new projects). What international company uses Delphi for ifrastr
ucture projects?


Well, I happen to have received the following newsletter:

http://www.delphi-staff.com/newsletter/mai2016/newsletter_delphi-staff_mai2016.html

It's in French, but it basically says that Total has chosen Delphi for a
multi-tier multi platform application. Not much details on this
application, but it's been written from scratch with D10...
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 5:57 AM   in response to: Olivier Sannier in response to: Olivier Sannier
On 6/28/2016 3:07 PM, Olivier Sannier wrote:
Joseph Mitzen wrote:
Alexandre Machado wrote:

I lived in a city with several big development companies using Delphi.

None of us will have ever heard of these companies. Name a major international company that relies on Delphi for their internal infrastructure - Google? Facebook? Instagram? Apple? Microsoft?

I can name some big banks using COBOL, but only because their software is 30+ years old. Name a major company banking on Delphi for new projects. Name an international company willing to risk their internal infrastructure on Delphi. I've heard it said that a language hasn't achieved success until an international company uses it for an internal infrastructure project (D just crossed this threshold with Facebook deciding to use it for some new projects). What international company uses Delphi for ifras

tr
ucture projects?

Well, I happen to have received the following newsletter:

http://www.delphi-staff.com/newsletter/mai2016/newsletter_delphi-staff_mai2016.html

It's in French, but it basically says that Total has chosen Delphi for a
multi-tier multi platform application. Not much details on this
application, but it's been written from scratch with D10...

yes, and also their is some regular job offer on delphi-staff for some
important company, like they say Société Générale, Thales, EADS :)
Markus Humm

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 12:22 PM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
Am 26.06.2016 um 13:26 schrieb Alexandre Machado:
I agree with loki loki. We don't know Idera intentions yet. They could:

1) Keep Delphi and try to make money from it
2) Sell it or open source it
3) Simply kill it

They have just hired a new C++ Builder Product Manager. So I believe that (3) is not in their plans.

1) and 2) can be good or bad depending on various factors... Embarcadero was a better owner than Borland in its last years, although lots of developers have just panicked. So, in the end, the whole Borland -> CodeGear -> Embarcadero turned out to be a good thing for the product. No so good because lots of FUD took place and Delphi lost market share.

Hello,

fact is: if they were a bit more open about what's currently happening
less FUD would be spread. But most companies will treat such things as
"internal stuff not to be published". They will most lilkely try to use
marketing to cover this, but that doesn't help too much.

But what's the source for that Ukrainian rumor?

Greetings

Markus
Joseph Mitzen

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 7:12 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Markus Humm wrote:

But what's the source for that Ukrainian rumor?

More to the point, what genius would move their division from a peaceful, safe country and set it up in an active war zone?

I'm not buying it. Idera's programmers before the EMBT purchase were all located in Austin, Texas, USA. They have no history of creating far-flung international development teams.
Dominique Willems

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 2:39 AM   in response to: Joseph Mitzen in response to: Joseph Mitzen
Joseph Mitzen wrote:
More to the point, what genius would move their division from a
peaceful, safe country and set it up in an active war zone?

Someone has been watching too much RT.
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 3:12 AM   in response to: Joseph Mitzen in response to: Joseph Mitzen
Joseph Mitzen wrote:

Markus Humm wrote:

But what's the source for that Ukrainian rumor?

More to the point, what genius would move their division from a
peaceful, safe country and set it up in an active war zone?

Not the whole of Ukraine is an "active war zone". Other companies
outsourced their development there too.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"
-- Dr. Strangelove
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 4:15 AM   in response to: Joseph Mitzen in response to: Joseph Mitzen
On 6/28/2016 5:12 AM, Joseph Mitzen wrote:
Markus Humm wrote:

But what's the source for that Ukrainian rumor?

More to the point, what genius would move their division from a peaceful, safe country and set it up in an active war zone?

you look too much the television :) life didn't stop in ex-ussr :) i
would be more afraid if they planned to setup their company in UK right
now :)

that the world, some are fighting to enter in europe, other are fighting
to go out ;)
Arnaud BOUCHEZ

Posts: 143
Registered: 2/17/02
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 3:56 AM   in response to: Bob McKinnon in response to: Bob McKinnon

Extracted from the comment, the most valuable info comes from Allen Bauer himself:

Allen Bauer
The Spain office had taken on most of the IDE, Delphi RTL, GetIT, Installer, some DB, Bluetooth components, IoT, QA, and other miscellaneous tasks. They were by-far the largest single group working on RAD Studio. They were all a wonderful, dedicated, excited group of folks. They were eager to learn and truly enjoyed their jobs. I am deeply saddened by this development.

Not unexpected given what I know about the new owners', ahem, decided lack of understanding how a dev-tool should be developed and managed... In fact, how software in general should be developed.

Gosh... I wonder why I left...

Allen Bauer
I've been with Delphi since the before the beginning and saw it all from the inside. In all the various transitions and changes, there was at least some kind of transition plan or some transfer of knowledge put into place. Right or wrong, those in charge at least recognized that a very key and core group should be retained in order to be assured of some modicum of success.

In this instance, however, that has not happened. It, apparently, is believed that developers are somehow able to, from merely being handed the source code, discern 21+ years of history, design, product philosophy, and even past mistakes. Just spool up a new team and spit out a product a few weeks later.

When I met with folks after the acquisition and was asked, "what do you do?" and "we don't know if there will be a place for you within 6 months"... I quickly got the idea that I was dealing with some real bright bulbs here. Thus I began my own "exit strategy"...

As sad as I am about what is happening to the product I dedicated 24+ years of my life to, I'm also very happy to continue my career at Google.
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 4:54 AM   in response to: Arnaud BOUCHEZ in response to: Arnaud BOUCHEZ
On 6/26/2016 1:56 PM, Arnaud BOUCHEZ wrote:

Extracted from the comment, the most valuable info comes from Allen Bauer himself:

Allen Bauer
The Spain office had taken on most of the IDE, Delphi RTL, GetIT, Installer, some DB, Bluetooth components, IoT, QA, and other miscellaneous tasks. They were by-far the largest single group working on RAD Studio. They were all a wonderful, dedicated, excited group of folks. They were eager to learn and truly enjoyed their jobs. I am deeply saddened by this development.

Not unexpected given what I know about the new owners', ahem, decided lack of understanding how a dev-tool should be developed and managed... In fact, how software in general should be developed.

Gosh... I wonder why I left...

Allen Bauer
I've been with Delphi since the before the beginning and saw it all from the inside. In all the various transitions and changes, there was at least some kind of transition plan or some transfer of knowledge put into place. Right or wrong, those in charge at least recognized that a very key and core group should be retained in order to be assured of some modicum of success.

In this instance, however, that has not happened. It, apparently, is believed that developers are somehow able to, from merely being handed the source code, discern 21+ years of history, design, product philosophy, and even past mistakes. Just spool up a new team and spit out a product a few weeks later.

When I met with folks after the acquisition and was asked, "what do you do?" and "we don't know if there will be a place for you within 6 months"... I quickly got the idea that I was dealing with some real bright bulbs here. Thus I began my own "exit strategy"...

As sad as I am about what is happening to the product I dedicated 24+ years of my life to, I'm also very happy to continue my career at Google.

their is no speak here! just the point of view of a guy who is happy to
left emb to google! in emb he was maybe someone, in google he is
surely noone and he is happy about this (decision) ... so why listen him ?

NB: people who left a company will rarely being objective when they
speak about their past job that a fact.
John Kouraklis

Posts: 209
Registered: 3/10/01
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 3:16 PM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki loki wrote:
On 6/26/2016 1:56 PM, Arnaud BOUCHEZ wrote:

Extracted from the comment, the most valuable info comes from Allen Bauer himself:

Allen Bauer
The Spain office had taken on most of the IDE, Delphi RTL, GetIT, Installer, some DB, Bluetooth components, IoT, QA, and other miscellaneous tasks. They were by-far the largest single group working on RAD Studio. They were all a wonderful, dedicated, excited group of folks. They were eager to learn and truly enjoyed their jobs. I am deeply saddened by this development.

Not unexpected given what I know about the new owners', ahem, decided lack of understanding how a dev-tool should be developed and managed... In fact, how software in general should be developed.

Gosh... I wonder why I left...

Allen Bauer
I've been with Delphi since the before the beginning and saw it all from the inside. In all the various transitions and changes, there was at least some kind of transition plan or some transfer of knowledge put into place. Right or wrong, those in charge at least recognized that a very key and core group should be retained in order to be assured of some modicum of success.

In this instance, however, that has not happened. It, apparently, is believed that developers are somehow able to, from merely being handed the source code, discern 21+ years of history, design, product philosophy, and even past mistakes. Just spool up a new team and spit out a product a few weeks later.

When I met with folks after the acquisition and was asked, "what do you do?" and "we don't know if there will be a place for you within 6 months"... I quickly got the idea that I was dealing with some real bright bulbs here. Thus I began my own "exit strategy"...

As sad as I am about what is happening to the product I dedicated 24+ years of my life to, I'm also very happy to continue my career at Google.

their is no speak here! just the point of view of a guy who is happy to
left emb to google! in emb he was maybe someone, in google he is
surely noone and he is happy about this (decision) ... so why listen him ?

NB: people who left a company will rarely being objective when they
speak about their past job that a fact.

Loki,

Allen has nothing to explain to anyone about his decisions to anyone----did he have to ask community's permission and approval?. He did the best he thought to serve his interests. This is his right and is actually what we all do in life.

No need to critise people's decisions with strong language.

Edited by: John Kour on Jun 26, 2016 3:56 PM
loki loki

Posts: 787
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Re: Bad news for Delphi? [Edit]
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 11:53 PM   in response to: John Kouraklis in response to: John Kouraklis

Allen has nothing to explain to anyone about his decisions to anyone----did he have to ask community's permission and approval?. He did the best he thought to serve his interests. This is his right and is actually what we all do in life.

i agree! he have nothing to explain!
i don't speak about him in particular, i just say take care when you
listen people (*any*) who left a company !

anyway we will say if the fud he spread was true soon or late ...
Arnaud BOUCHEZ

Posts: 143
Registered: 2/17/02
Re: Bad news for Delphi? [Edit]
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 1:43 AM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki loki wrote:
anyway we will say if the fud he spread was true soon or late ...

Allen is the last guy spreading the fud to feed the trolls, AFAIR....
Alexandre Machado

Posts: 1,754
Registered: 8/10/13
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 4:55 PM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
their is no speak here! just the point of view of a guy who is happy to
left emb to google! in emb he was maybe someone, in google he is
surely noone and he is happy about this (decision) ... so why listen him ?

NB: people who left a company will rarely being objective when they
speak about their past job that a fact.

Don't go there, loki loki... Allen did his best for Delphi for more than 20 years, I'm pretty sure about it.
I'm also sure that he didn't leave because of money like others did. In the end, we all have to take care of our family's future, and so's he.
loki loki

Posts: 787
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 1:27 AM   in response to: Alexandre Machado in response to: Alexandre Machado
On 6/27/2016 2:55 AM, Alexandre Machado wrote:
their is no speak here! just the point of view of a guy who is happy to
left emb to google! in emb he was maybe someone, in google he is
surely noone and he is happy about this (decision) ... so why listen him ?

NB: people who left a company will rarely being objective when they
speak about their past job that a fact.

Don't go there, loki loki... Allen did his best for Delphi for more than 20 years, I'm pretty sure about it.

maybe he did his best for delphi, but what was the purpose of his few
last post? afraid all the actual customers to go away? Make sure if
someone need to choose between delphi and something else *to not choose
Delphi* ? because their is no alternative to his post than moving to
something else than Delphi!

for me look like a guy speaking badly on the back of his last wife after
divorce. Maybe he is right, but he not need to say all of this, he must
let his ex-wife start her new life.

this why again i repeat, don't listen past employee any. And i say
again any, i don't speak about anyone in particular.
Joseph Mitzen

Posts: 392
Registered: 6/9/02
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 7:27 PM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki loki wrote:

maybe he did his best for delphi, but what was the purpose of his few
last post?

To tell the truth and state facts.

afraid all the actual customers to go away? Make sure if
someone need to choose between delphi and something else *to not choose
Delphi* ?

There's this crazy mindset that Delphi users have a moral duty to lie if necessary to prevent anything bad from ever being said about it or its developers. Like there's some soft of great ideological battle taking place we need to "win" and we must be "pure". When you write something like that it makes us look like a cult. Like an extreme religion you've "shunned" Allen Bauer for having quit before he got fired and now no "true believer" can talk to him or listen to what he says because he's spreading the word of the Devil or something. :-(

because their is no alternative to his post than moving to
something else than Delphi!

So did you just say that if what Allen said was true you'd have to consider leaving Delphi so you'll believe he's lying just to make yourself feel better?

Ok, maybe some of us ARE a cult. :-(

I was once the first employee of a new company. I worked for illegally low wages at great personal cost for two years to help build it up. When we got cheated eight years later and lost most of our business, I took pay cut after pay cut. Eventually I was on unemployment when I couldn't be paid at all, but kept working for them anyway for free. Then I kept working for free after my unemployment checks ran out, went through my savings, even downsized my living arrangements. When things still hadn't turned around, I finally said I had to go (the only one left) when I was essentially broke and needed to sell my car. I like to say "I didn't yell 'Abandon ship!' until there were goldfish swimming past my eyeballs."

Allen didn't make that mistake. Don't you make the same mistake of refusing to face reality. In my case the owner meant well but he too was fooling himself about the possibility of turning things around. To admit otherwise would be to abandon his dream. You sound the same way. Please don't get yourself into a terrible situation because you chose not to believe all the facts in front of you. I can tell you from personal experience it's no fun.

for me look like a guy speaking badly on the back of his last wife after
divorce. Maybe he is right, but he not need to say all of this

There's no reason not to tell the truth. Why should he keep us in the dark rather than warn us? The need is to give people the facts we're not getting from Idera so we can make up our own minds about what to do.
Jared Champion

Posts: 1
Registered: 8/13/11
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 1:16 AM   in response to: Joseph Mitzen in response to: Joseph Mitzen
I like to say "I didn't yell 'Abandon ship!' until there were goldfish swimming past my eyeballs."

I'm sorry to hear you went through such a hard time
Eivind Bakkestuen


Posts: 447
Registered: 5/8/01
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 5:43 PM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
their is no speak here! just the point of view of a guy who is happy
to left emb to google! in emb he was maybe someone, in google he is
surely noone and he is happy about this (decision) ... so why listen
him ?

Because he is so far the only reasonably reliable source of
information, since Emb does not say anything? The total silence from
them in that Google+ thread should tell you something.

Given how long he worked on the products, and how he has always been
serious in previous discussions (even in the latest beta where he was
invited to participate after he left Emb), I seriously doubt that his
comments were based in anything other than his real experience.

In light of the above, I find your way of dealing with Allen's
statements interesting. Why should we listen to you?

--
Eivind Bakkestuen [NDD]
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 26, 2016 11:56 PM   in response to: Eivind Bakkestuen in response to: Eivind Bakkestuen
On 6/27/2016 3:43 AM, Eivind Bakkestuen wrote:
their is no speak here! just the point of view of a guy who is happy
to left emb to google! in emb he was maybe someone, in google he is
surely noone and he is happy about this (decision) ... so why listen
him ?

Because he is so far the only reasonably reliable source of
information, since Emb does not say anything? The total silence from
them in that Google+ thread should tell you something.

yes that a little bad :( i don't quite understand why idera keep silent
on this
Joseph Mitzen

Posts: 392
Registered: 6/9/02
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 7:29 PM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki loki wrote:
i don't quite understand why idera keep silent
on this

That should be obvious - because there's nothing good to say about it. If there were some explanation that would make everyone feel better, we'd have heard it already.
Joseph Mitzen

Posts: 392
Registered: 6/9/02
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 7:16 PM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki loki wrote:

their is no speak here! just the point of view of a guy who is happy to
left emb to google!

That's a complete mischaracterization. He spent essentially his entire working life at Borland and its successors. He's happy he left before he got fired.

in emb he was maybe someone, in google he is
surely noone and he is happy about this (decision) ... so why listen him ?

You're taken Delphi fanboy delusion to new heights. :-( A few months ago his word would have been gospel here. Are you suggesting he made his entire story up?
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 3:18 AM   in response to: Joseph Mitzen in response to: Joseph Mitzen
Joseph Mitzen wrote:

Are you suggesting he made
his entire story up?

What story? I guess he knew about the closing of that office (if it is
true) from the same source as everyone else: that short article in that
Spanish newspaper, posted on Google+. Sure, he knows who worked there
and what was being developed there, and I guess it made him sad to see
these people laid off.

But he didn't make up any story. The story is from that Spanish
newspaper.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"He is a self-made man and worships his creator."
-- John Bright
Ralf Stocker

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 5:21 AM   in response to: Bob McKinnon in response to: Bob McKinnon
Matthew Jones

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 5:55 AM   in response to: Ralf Stocker in response to: Ralf Stocker
Asbjørn Heid

Posts: 267
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 5:57 AM   in response to: Matthew Jones in response to: Matthew Jones
Matthew Jones wrote:
Ralf Stocker wrote:

http://www.newday.mk/major-blow-for-delphi-embarcadero-includes-spanish-development-site/

Looks rather cut-and pasted together!

Actually it almost looks like a machine job, or "just" Google Translate...

- Asbjørn
Roland Kossow

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 6:44 AM   in response to: Asbjørn Heid in response to: Asbjørn Heid
Here is the source of the original publication ...

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Herber-Schlag-fuer-Delphi-Embarcadero-schliesst-spanischen-Entwicklungsstandort-3249142.html

It is the publisher of Germanies most important IT publications ...

The lack of any official communication considering this from Idera or Embarcadero is unprofessional.

They also published an article now on the Free Pascal and Lazarus foundation ...
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Stiftung-fuer-Free-Pascal-und-Lazarus-gegruendet-3249526.html

There is really no better way to loose customers than this silence. Plain and absolutely ununderstandable.

There should have been an official statement yesterday and I hope it will be here today.
loki loki

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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 8:31 AM   in response to: Roland Kossow in response to: Roland Kossow
The lack of any official communication considering this from Idera or Embarcadero is unprofessional.

yes this is unprofessional and unacceptable ! it's not only their
products, we as customers have also business that depend on it ...
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 2:12 AM   in response to: loki loki in response to: loki loki
loki loki wrote:

The lack of any official communication considering this from Idera
or Embarcadero is unprofessional.

yes this is unprofessional and unacceptable ! it's not only their
products, we as customers have also business that depend on it ...

So you want them to deny or confirm a rumour? If I were them, I
wouldn't.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Any inaccuracies in this index may be explained by the fact
that it has been sorted with the help of a computer."
-- Donald Knuth Sorting and Searching
Björn Schreiber

Posts: 11
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 6:58 AM   in response to: Asbjørn Heid in response to: Asbjørn Heid
Am 27.06.2016 um 14:57 schrieb Asbjørn Heid:
Actually it almost looks like a machine job, or "just" Google Translate...

Seems to be a translation of this german article:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Herber-Schlag-fuer-Delphi-Embarcadero-schliesst-spanischen-Entwicklungsstandort-3249142.html

Even the pictures are the same.

Greetings,
Björn
--
DRIGUS

Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 9:12 AM   in response to: Asbjørn Heid in response to: Asbjørn Heid
Asbjørn Heid wrote:

Matthew Jones wrote:
Ralf Stocker wrote:

http://www.newday.mk/major-blow-for-delphi-embarcadero-includes-spanish-development-site/

Looks rather cut-and pasted together!

Actually it almost looks like a machine job, or "just" Google
Translate...

It is a bad translation of a heise.de article (in German) about the
exact same subject, and that gets all its info from the Google+ thread
about it.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"No one can earn a million dollars honestly."
-- William Jennings Bryan (1860-1925)
Lajos Juhasz

Posts: 801
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 6:40 AM   in response to: Matthew Jones in response to: Matthew Jones
Matthew Jones wrote:

Ralf Stocker wrote:

http://www.newday.mk/major-blow-for-delphi-embarcadero-includes-spanish-development-site/

Looks rather cut-and pasted together!

The part that is not pasted is not true:

 Although there were Studio in April-new versions of Delphi, C++
Builder and bike, but the changes were rather limited, as the small
version step from 10 to 10 suggests 1.


I bet here it should be read 10 to 10.1. However short after the
version 10 was released it was sad that from now whe shall expect 10.1,
10.2 version (the major version is frozen to be 10).
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 9:17 AM   in response to: Lajos Juhasz in response to: Lajos Juhasz
Lajos Juhasz wrote:

 Although there were Studio in April-new versions of Delphi, C++
Builder and bike, but the changes were rather limited, as the small
version step from 10 to 10 suggests 1.


I bet here it should be read 10 to 10.1.

The original (the German article) says 10 to 10.1 indeed.

They seem to be unaware of the fact that the version will remain at 10
and that the .1 is a full new version, not just a point update. Just
like OS.X 10.11 is a full new version with respect to OS X 10.10, etc.

This tells me that they don't really know a lot about the subject, just
what they found on Google+ and some (bad) assumptions on their side.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Today it is fashionable to talk about the poor. Unfortunately,
it is not fashionable to talk with them."
-- Mother Teresa
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 9:11 AM   in response to: Ralf Stocker in response to: Ralf Stocker
Ralf Stocker wrote:

http://www.newday.mk/major-blow-for-delphi-embarcadero-includes-spanish-development-site/

But AFAIK, thatis just a bad translation of the heise.de article on the
same subject and with the exact same picture of Lego blocks, and that,
in tis turn simply copies what they found on Google+, so nothing new.

In other words: there is only one source, the Spanish article in the
newspaper (?) linked to in Google+, the rest simply derives from that
or from the Google+ discussion on it. No other source. Not even one.

It may be true (although the article says they leave the office in that
place, I don't know how true the claim is that the 80 people working
there were laid off), but it not really reliable news.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"C++: an octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog"
-- unknown
Eivind Bakkestuen


Posts: 447
Registered: 5/8/01
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 6:13 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
It may be true (although the article says they leave the office in
that place, I don't know how true the claim is that the 80 people
working there were laid off), but it not really reliable news.

Not really reliable? It's hard to believe that after 4-5 days nobody
from Emb would bother to step in if it was a false or incorrect report,
seeing as they've been G+ tagged, emailed, the news spread in all
forums Delphi related, and as a result FUD close to an all-time high.
If the news is incorrect, they're really in need of a crash course in
management.

--
Eivind Bakkestuen [NDD]
Brian Hamilton ...

Posts: 556
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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 27, 2016 8:12 PM   in response to: Eivind Bakkestuen in response to: Eivind Bakkestuen
and as a result FUD close to an all-time high.
If the news is incorrect, they're really in need of a crash course in
management.

maybe no employees are saying anything because they do not want to loose their job?
(or they have been told to not comment ?)
we are just guessing
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 2:11 AM   in response to: Brian Hamilton ... in response to: Brian Hamilton ...
Brian Hamilton Hamilton wrote:

and as a result FUD close to an all-time high.
If the news is incorrect, they're really in need of a crash course
in management.

maybe no employees are saying anything because they do not want to
loose their job? (or they have been told to not comment ?)
we are just guessing

I bet that all employees are under an NDA anyway. Heck, mine are even
under an NDA.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-- George Santayana
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 1:28 AM   in response to: Eivind Bakkestuen in response to: Eivind Bakkestuen
Eivind Bakkestuen wrote:

It may be true (although the article says they leave the office in
that place, I don't know how true the claim is that the 80 people
working there were laid off), but it not really reliable news.

Not really reliable? It's hard to believe that after 4-5 days nobody
from Emb would bother to step in if it was a false or incorrect
report

I would think that a fervent denial would only increase the public
interest, and even wilder theories might arise. You know the Delphi
community: always thinking the worst.

And perhaps they don't want to disclose such things, at the moment,
despite the rumours. I would simply let the discussion die, if I were
them.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Is your argument that the Creator of the Universe was working
under a deadline and His manager forced Him to rush inefficient
designs into production?" -- John B. Breckenridge in bpot
Kim Madsen

Posts: 362
Registered: 12/13/99
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 3:32 AM   in response to: Bob McKinnon in response to: Bob McKinnon
Den 6/24/2016 kl. 16:30 skrev Bob McKinnon:
Anyone have any more information on layoffs occurring in Embarcadero? See link below

https://plus.google.com/u/0/105481197125997414290/posts/FnLvMteQ4dU

http://community.embarcadero.com/article/news/16416-product-roadmap-update
loki loki

Posts: 787
Registered: 7/1/02
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 4:24 AM   in response to: Kim Madsen in response to: Kim Madsen
On 6/28/2016 1:32 PM, Kim Madsen wrote:
Den 6/24/2016 kl. 16:30 skrev Bob McKinnon:
Anyone have any more information on layoffs occurring in Embarcadero? See link below

https://plus.google.com/u/0/105481197125997414290/posts/FnLvMteQ4dU

http://community.embarcadero.com/article/news/16416-product-roadmap-update

that good, but he say they will use the IDERA’s R&D Network :( that
look not very promising ! idera build database i don't imagine how guys
who do not know delphi can start to not work on delphi, but BUILD delphi :(

At least i hope the IDERA’s R&D Network are not fan of arc ;) they can
start to remove this :)
Ilya S

Posts: 21
Registered: 1/8/10
Re: Bad news for Delphi?
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  Posted: Jun 28, 2016 6:36 AM   in response to: Bob McKinnon in response to: Bob McKinnon
Nice! Gurock Software acquired by IDERA
https://blog.gurock.com/gurock-testrail-acquired-by-idera/
Some trust is certainly regained by this action.
Legend
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