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Thread: Good read on fanbois...



Permlink Replies: 77 - Last Post: Oct 9, 2014 5:19 AM Last Post By: Rudy Velthuis (...
Dalija Prasnikar

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Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 2, 2014 3:08 AM
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherGaul/posts/LJwDx4wqTXW

Any similarity with our beloved Delphi is purely coincidental (or not)

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Eli M

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 2, 2014 8:01 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Complainers hurt your brain.

http://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/listening-to-complainers-is-bad-for-your-brain.html

"Try to get the person who's complaining to take responsibility for a solution," Blake says. "I typically respond to a complaint with, 'What are you going to do about it?'" Many complainers walk away huffily at that point, because he hasn't given them what they wanted, Blake reports. But some may actually try to solve the problem.
> Rich <

Posts: 171
Registered: 2/6/09
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 2, 2014 9:35 AM   in response to: Eli M in response to: Eli M
Eli M wrote:

"What are you going to do about it?'"

I always ask what can we do about it. This way provides for a team effort and doesn't sound like a smart remark.
Dalija Prasnikar

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 2, 2014 12:22 PM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
> Rich < wrote:
Eli M wrote:

"What are you going to do about it?'"

I always ask what can we do about it. This way provides for a team effort and doesn't sound like a smart remark.

That is good approach.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 2, 2014 12:20 PM   in response to: Eli M in response to: Eli M
Eli M wrote:
Complainers hurt your brain.

http://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/listening-to-complainers-is-bad-for-your-brain.html

"Try to get the person who's complaining to take responsibility for a solution," Blake says. "I typically respond to a complaint with, 'What are you going to do about it?'" Many complainers walk away huffily at that point, because he hasn't given them what they wanted, Blake reports. But some may actually try to solve the problem.

Depending on the situation you may or may not be in position
to provide solution. Sometimes complaining is part of solution
if others are in position to act on your complaints.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 2:45 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Eli M wrote:
Complainers hurt your brain.

http://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/listening-to-complainers-is-bad-for-your-brain.html

+"Try to get the person who's complaining to take responsibility
for a solution," Blake says. "I typically respond to a complaint
with, 'What are you going to do about it?'" Many complainers walk
away huffily at that point, because he hasn't given them what they
wanted, Blake reports. But some may actually try to solve the
problem.+

Depending on the situation you may or may not be in position
to provide solution. Sometimes complaining is part of solution
if others are in position to act on your complaints.

Everyone gets frustrated sometimes.

However, constant complaining and misinformation, and more complaining
when someone calls them out or dares to ask for context or specifics
isn't part of any solution and should not be tolerated.

If anything, I'd like to see some more aggressive moderation here.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 4:14 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Eli M wrote:
Complainers hurt your brain.

http://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/listening-to-complainers-is-bad-for-your-brain.html

+"Try to get the person who's complaining to take responsibility
for a solution," Blake says. "I typically respond to a complaint
with, 'What are you going to do about it?'" Many complainers walk
away huffily at that point, because he hasn't given them what they
wanted, Blake reports. But some may actually try to solve the
problem.+

Depending on the situation you may or may not be in position
to provide solution. Sometimes complaining is part of solution
if others are in position to act on your complaints.

Everyone gets frustrated sometimes.

However, constant complaining and misinformation, and more complaining
when someone calls them out or dares to ask for context or specifics
isn't part of any solution and should not be tolerated.

If anything, I'd like to see some more aggressive moderation here.

I am just going to ignore your posts for a while.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Bruce McGee

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 1:32 PM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Everyone gets frustrated sometimes.

However, constant complaining and misinformation, and more
complaining when someone calls them out or dares to ask for context
or specifics isn't part of any solution and should not be tolerated.

If anything, I'd like to see some more aggressive moderation here.

I am just going to ignore your posts for a while.

That's probably a good idea. My patience with trolling posts and their
associated TApologists (Troll Apologists) is approaching an all time
low.

imho, cleaning up some of the noise will noticeably improve these
forums.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
> Rich <

Posts: 171
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 8:37 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

If anything, I'd like to see some more aggressive moderation here.

+1

Do the forum rules provide for it?
Bruce McGee

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 1:35 PM   in response to: > Rich < in response to: > Rich <
Rich wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:

If anything, I'd like to see some more aggressive moderation here.

+1

Do the forum rules provide for it?

I think rule #7 covers it.

http://support.embarcadero.com/forums/guidelines

--
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Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Luigi Sandon

Posts: 353
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 12:03 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
If anything, I'd like to see some more aggressive moderation here.

I understand some people need to be reassured they chose "the greatest of them all", and any attempt to show there's a problem makes them feel bad because hits their self-esteem. And that's exactly the fanboy attitude. You showed it perfectly.

Shutting up complaints won't remove the root cause - will only make it worse - and usually lead to some spectacular failure.
Dalija Prasnikar

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 12:14 AM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
Luigi Sandon wrote:
If anything, I'd like to see some more aggressive moderation here.

I understand some people need to be reassured they chose "the greatest of them all", and any attempt to show there's a problem makes them feel bad because hits their self-esteem. And that's exactly the fanboy attitude. You showed it perfectly.

Shutting up complaints won't remove the root cause - will only make it worse - and usually lead to some spectacular failure.

Nicely put...

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Bruce McGee

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 2:56 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Shutting up complaints won't remove the root cause - will only make
it worse - and usually lead to some spectacular failure.

Nicely put...

How about deliberately false, misleading or malicious posts? Is it OK
for Embarcadero to remove these from their own forums?

I think these are on par with spam. Maybe slightly worse.

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Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
David Erbas-White

Posts: 202
Registered: 10/11/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 8:17 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
On 10/6/2014 2:56 AM, Bruce McGee wrote:

Bruce,

I'm dead serious about the following:

Please go back over all the posts for, let's say, the past month. Count
all those you think are trolling posts. Then count up all those that
are complaining about trolling.

I'm willing to bet you'll find many more of the latter than the former.

David Erbas-White

P.S. I'm specifically talking about this group, by the way -- I haven't
reviewed many of the others since the crash/recovery...

Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Shutting up complaints won't remove the root cause - will only make
it worse - and usually lead to some spectacular failure.

Nicely put...

How about deliberately false, misleading or malicious posts? Is it OK
for Embarcadero to remove these from their own forums?

I think these are on par with spam. Maybe slightly worse.
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 9:02 AM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

On 10/6/2014 2:56 AM, Bruce McGee wrote:

Bruce,

I'm dead serious about the following:

Please go back over all the posts for, let's say, the past month.
Count all those you think are trolling posts. Then count up all
those that are complaining about trolling.

I'm willing to bet you'll find many more of the latter than the
former.

David Erbas-White

P.S. I'm specifically talking about this group, by the way -- I
haven't reviewed many of the others since the crash/recovery...

There is no trolling and no complaining in any other but the
non-technical groups and perhaps off-topic (and sometimes third party
tools). We try to keep the technical groups clean of that.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"How the teacher reacts when something goes wrong tells the class
what's important." -- Bruce Hamilton
Bruce McGee

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 1:25 PM   in response to: David Erbas-White in response to: David Erbas-White
David Erbas-White wrote:

I'm dead serious about the following:

I believe you.

Please go back over all the posts for, let's say, the past month.
Count all those you think are trolling posts. Then count up all
those that are complaining about trolling.

I'm willing to bet you'll find many more of the latter than the
former.

And I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one complaining about bad
posts.

I'll grant you that we haven't seen a proper "Delphi is dead!" troll in
a while, but there are a huge number of posts that exist just to take
digs at Embarcadero, Delphi and/or supporters of either, people typing
at the tops of their lungs, threads complaining that posts with
swearing are cancelled and don't even get me started on literally
thousands of posts about a single topic repeated ad nauseam.

See Nick's comment on the subject. I think he hits the nail on the head.

If the posts I'm complaining about stop, then so will the complaints.

In that order.

I'll even settle for posts that are mildly grumpy (don't get carried
away), but at least open minded.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Matthew Jones

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 12:53 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

but there are a huge number of posts that ...

The posts that annoy me most are the ones which constantly, repeatedly
unswervingly say that someone is wrong to have the opinion that they
do. These are the threads that seem to continue forever because someone
can't just let it go that someone, for example, thinks that using an
8-bit string is a useful and valid. It isn't the saying that one
doesn't think it is valid, it is the persistence as though one stop the
world until it is accepted.

IMHO of course.
Bruce McGee

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 2:27 AM   in response to: Matthew Jones in response to: Matthew Jones
Matthew Jones wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:

but there are a huge number of posts that ...

The posts that annoy me most are the ones which constantly, repeatedly
unswervingly say that someone is wrong to have the opinion that they
do. These are the threads that seem to continue forever because
someone can't just let it go that someone, for example, thinks that
using an 8-bit string is a useful and valid. It isn't the saying that
one doesn't think it is valid, it is the persistence as though one
stop the world until it is accepted.

IMHO of course.

These threads have devolved into what I think is a meaningless
discussion.

Which is a shame since most of the people involved in them are on
almost exactly the same page and there was some rally interesting stuff
at the beginning.

Now feels like it's been distilled down to a bitter argument about the
differences, which are still fewer than the areas of agreement.

It's frustrating and unnecessary.

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Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Bruce McGee

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 3:27 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Shutting up complaints won't remove the root cause - will only make
it worse - and usually lead to some spectacular failure.

Nicely put...

And is it finally OK to call out false statements or ask people who are
complaining for any kind specifics or context, or is this still too
great a burden?

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Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Bruce McGee

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 2:54 AM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
Luigi Sandon wrote:

If anything, I'd like to see some more aggressive moderation here.

I understand some people need to be reassured they chose "the
greatest of them all", and any attempt to show there's a problem
makes them feel bad because hits their self-esteem. And that's
exactly the fanboy attitude. You showed it perfectly.

Shutting up complaints won't remove the root cause - will only make
it worse - and usually lead to some spectacular failure.

I wrote somewhere else that "constructive complaining" can be useful.

Trolling should not be tolerated.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Nick Hodges

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 6:32 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Trolling should not be tolerated.

NOr should being a total jerk.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Nick Hodges

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 6:32 AM   in response to: Luigi Sandon in response to: Luigi Sandon
Luigi Sandon wrote:

Shutting up complaints won't remove the root cause

Bruce isn't talking about shutting up complaints. He's talking about
people being dicks when they complain. There's a difference.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 7:54 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:

Luigi Sandon wrote:

Shutting up complaints won't remove the root cause

Bruce isn't talking about shutting up complaints. He's talking about
people being dicks when they complain. There's a difference.

And well, one can hardly claim, with a straight face, that complaints
have ever been shut up here.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"An empty stomach is not a good political advisor."
-- Albert Einstein
Nick Hodges

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 8:18 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

And well, one can hardly claim, with a straight face, that complaints
have ever been shut up here.

Indeed.

--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 1:21 AM   in response to: Nick Hodges in response to: Nick Hodges
Nick Hodges wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

And well, one can hardly claim, with a straight face, that complaints
have ever been shut up here.

Indeed.

Not shut up, just drowned in million posts from people complaining about
complaints and trolls.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Bruce McGee

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 2:56 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Nick Hodges wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

And well, one can hardly claim, with a straight face, that
complaints have ever been shut up here.

Indeed.

Not shut up, just drowned in million posts from people complaining
about complaints and trolls.

You seem to be complaining that bad behaviour is being called out and
ignoring cases where more constructive discussion is being encouraged.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 3:06 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Nick Hodges wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

And well, one can hardly claim, with a straight face, that
complaints have ever been shut up here.

Indeed.

Not shut up, just drowned in million posts from people complaining
about complaints and trolls.

You seem to be complaining that bad behaviour is being called out and
ignoring cases where more constructive discussion is being encouraged.

What bad behaviour? You seem to jump on everyone that dares to say
that something about Delphi is bothering him/her. And now our valid
complaints are somehow bad behaviour, and your name calling is perfectly fine.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 3:33 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Nick Hodges wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

And well, one can hardly claim, with a straight face, that
complaints have ever been shut up here.

Indeed.

Not shut up, just drowned in million posts from people complaining
about complaints and trolls.

You seem to be complaining that bad behaviour is being called out
and ignoring cases where more constructive discussion is being
encouraged.

What bad behaviour? You seem to jump on everyone that dares to say
that something about Delphi is bothering him/her. And now our valid
complaints are somehow bad behaviour, and your name calling is
perfectly fine.

This current thread is a pretty good example of bad behaviour.

You complained before about challenging unsupported claims, asking for
specifics and context and even for calling out Ridiculous Delphi is
Dead claims. I think you claimed that it was being too harsh.

You yourself claimed that you had "good reasons" to park in these
groups and take shots at Embarcadero. I think this is silly, and I
think contributing to this group becoming much less useful.

I know what I want from these groups. I have no idea what you're trying
to accomplish.

I wonder if we're arguing past each other and if we could find some
reasonable middle ground if we tried?

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 3:40 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Nick Hodges wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

And well, one can hardly claim, with a straight face, that
complaints have ever been shut up here.

Indeed.

Not shut up, just drowned in million posts from people complaining
about complaints and trolls.

You seem to be complaining that bad behaviour is being called out
and ignoring cases where more constructive discussion is being
encouraged.

What bad behaviour? You seem to jump on everyone that dares to say
that something about Delphi is bothering him/her. And now our valid
complaints are somehow bad behaviour, and your name calling is
perfectly fine.

This current thread is a pretty good example of bad behaviour.

This current thread is result of being bullied in other threads by cheerleading pack.


I know what I want from these groups. I have no idea what you're trying
to accomplish.

Same here.

I wonder if we're arguing past each other and if we could find some
reasonable middle ground if we tried?

Don't know about future, but now I don't see that happening.

But don't worry, I won't be bothering you any time soon.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 3:48 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

This current thread is result of being bullied in other threads by
cheerleading pack.

Bullied? "cheerleading pack"? Ok, talk about bad behaviour.

No one is being bullied. You are free to write, and free to reply. As
long as your messages don't get cancelled, they are visible for
everyone. That is not "bullying".

That there are some who do not agree with you and also voice their
opinions is not bullying.

And calling some people "cheerleading pack" is pretty offensive and
well, bad behaviour.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"To date, despite the efforts of millions of true believers to
support this myth, there is no more evidence for the
Judeo-Christian god than any of the gods on Mount Olympus."
-- Joseph Daleiden
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 3:58 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

And calling some people "cheerleading pack" is pretty offensive and
well, bad behaviour.

I know, but so is calling people trolls among other things.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 10:04 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

And calling some people "cheerleading pack" is pretty offensive and
well, bad behaviour.

Hooligans bullied by cheerleaders? How embarrassing!

Sounds like something Joss Whedon would write.

--
Regards
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Don Delegate

Posts: 18
Registered: 9/25/08
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 4:52 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

This current thread is result of being bullied in other threads by
cheerleading pack.

Bullied? "cheerleading pack"? Ok, talk about bad behaviour.

I already voiced my opinion a year ago: you really do display bullying
behaviour.
As the message in the forum seams to be gone, an external link:
http://www.codenewsfast.com/cnf/article/0/permalink.art-ng1914q158544

No one is being bullied. You are free to write, and free to reply. As
long as your messages don't get cancelled, they are visible for
everyone. That is not "bullying".
I disagree.

That there are some who do not agree with you and also voice their
opinions is not bullying.
True, but that is not the point.

And calling some people "cheerleading pack" is pretty offensive and
well, bad behaviour.

Are you offended?
Really?

Kind regards,
D.

Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 11:22 PM   in response to: Don Delegate in response to: Don Delegate
Don Delegate wrote:

Bullied? "cheerleading pack"? Ok, talk about bad behaviour.

I already voiced my opinion a year ago: you really do display bullying
behaviour.

If I were to display bullying behaviour, I would cancel any message I
don't like. I don't do that. Sure, I reply to messages I don't like.
That is normal in a forum.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Sometimes when reading Goethe I have the paralyzing suspicion
that he is trying to be funny."
-- Guy Davenport
Don Delegate

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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 1:22 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Don Delegate wrote:

Bullied? "cheerleading pack"? Ok, talk about bad behaviour.

I already voiced my opinion a year ago: you really do display
bullying behaviour.

If I were to display bullying behaviour, I would cancel any message I
don't like.
No, you would not.

I don't do that. Sure, I reply to messages I don't like.
That is normal in a forum.

You really should read up on (cyber) bullying.

Kind regards,
D.
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 1:32 AM   in response to: Don Delegate in response to: Don Delegate
Don Delegate wrote:

You really should read up on (cyber) bullying.

Am I doing any of that? I am very sure I don't. I don't post rumors or
gossip about others, and I don't try to bring about hatred toward
others. I don't repeatedly harm or harass people.

Calling my postings "bullying" is pure hyperbole.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"He managed to stupid himself right into the White House."
-- Charles Appel about George W. Bush
Don Delegate

Posts: 18
Registered: 9/25/08
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 1:39 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Don Delegate wrote:

You really should read up on (cyber) bullying.

Am I doing any of that? I am very sure I don't. I don't post rumors or
gossip about others, and I don't try to bring about hatred toward
others. I don't repeatedly harm or harass people.

Calling my postings "bullying" is pure hyperbole.

Nope. :D

Bye now, I'm gone from this place.

Kind regards,
D.

Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 2:48 AM   in response to: Don Delegate in response to: Don Delegate
Don Delegate wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Don Delegate wrote:

You really should read up on (cyber) bullying.

Am I doing any of that?

Nope. :D

Bye now, I'm gone from this place.


Well, well, first accusing me of "bullying", and if you can't
substantiate it with arguments, you sign off.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"An API that isn't comprehensible isn't usable." -- James Gosling
Quentin Correll


Posts: 2,412
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 9:32 AM   in response to: Don Delegate in response to: Don Delegate
Don,

| Bye now, I'm gone from this place.

Good.

--

Q

1.19.1.372 (Q's Broken Toolbar.)
Matthew Jones

Posts: 337
Registered: 1/25/98
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 3:47 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Am I doing any of that? I am very sure I don't. I don't post rumors or
gossip about others, and I don't try to bring about hatred toward
others. I don't repeatedly harm or harass people.

Calling my postings "bullying" is pure hyperbole.

Bullying is wider though isn't it. The Wikipedia article includes:

"Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that
seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit,
or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and
hostile behavior intended to harm another."

Now, I'm sure that no one here intends to harm another, but repeated
"you are wrong" can certainly hurt, and frustrate.

Everyone should consider how their responses might be viewed by the
recipient. It is easy to see "you should just write some code" as a put
down, "you shouldn't use that library then" as discrediting, and "your
code smells" as humiliating. It may not be intended that way, but it
could be interpreted and felt that way. Maybe we should just "grow a
pair" but the internet is facing challenges at the moment on these
issues, and we should not be quiet about stating feelings and
discussing them.

Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 8:23 AM   in response to: Matthew Jones in response to: Matthew Jones
Matthew Jones wrote:

Bullying is wider though isn't it. The Wikipedia article includes:

"Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications
that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely
discredit, or humiliate the recipient.

Ok, and where do I do or have I done these things?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Did you ever walk in a room and forget why you walked in? I think
that's how dogs spend their lives." -- Sue Murphy.
Matthew Jones

Posts: 337
Registered: 1/25/98
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2014 1:21 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Matthew Jones wrote:

Bullying is wider though isn't it. The Wikipedia article includes:

"Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications
that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely
discredit, or humiliate the recipient.

Ok, and where do I do or have I done these things?

I gave examples of how such things may be interpreted from posts that
many have made, including you, and perhaps from me too.

For example, "where do I do or have I done these things?" could be seen
as "intimidating". It's a challenge, and could be an attempt to
control. Likewise of course, so this message could be seen as
intimidating or controlling. I of course have less power than you in
this location. Thus it becomes a matter of scale - we expect that
someone might question ideas, and for people to disagree with us. But
when you say "you are wrong, I am right, and I'll keep on saying it
until you give up", which is effectively how your posts come across,
then it goes too far, in my opinion. I may be wrong. I'm not here to
fight or upset anyone, but I think it worth pointing out how it might
be perceived by some.
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2014 2:32 AM   in response to: Matthew Jones in response to: Matthew Jones
Matthew Jones wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Matthew Jones wrote:

Bullying is wider though isn't it. The Wikipedia article includes:

"Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications
that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely
discredit, or humiliate the recipient.

Ok, and where do I do or have I done these things?

I gave examples of how such things may be interpreted from posts that
many have made, including you, and perhaps from me too.

For example, "where do I do or have I done these things?" could be
seen as "intimidating".

No, it could not. I am accused of bullying, then you give parts of the
definition of bullying and I ask where I have done such things. That is
not intimidating.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare
or compete, everybody will respect you."
-- Lao tzu
Matthew Jones

Posts: 337
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2014 4:23 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Matthew Jones wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Matthew Jones wrote:

Bullying is wider though isn't it. The Wikipedia article
includes:

"Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include
communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate,
put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient.

Ok, and where do I do or have I done these things?

I gave examples of how such things may be interpreted from posts
that many have made, including you, and perhaps from me too.

For example, "where do I do or have I done these things?" could be
seen as "intimidating".

No, it could not. I am accused of bullying, then you give parts of the
definition of bullying and I ask where I have done such things. That
is not intimidating.

I am unable to explain this further. I have said that not everyone will
see things one way or another. If you can't see how this might be from
your (and other's - this is not just your) postings, I can't go
further. Maybe it is just me, but I felt it worth voicing. Thanks for
your consideration.

Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 9, 2014 5:19 AM   in response to: Matthew Jones in response to: Matthew Jones
Matthew Jones wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Matthew Jones wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Matthew Jones wrote:

Bullying is wider though isn't it. The Wikipedia article
includes:

"Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include
communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate,
put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient.

Ok, and where do I do or have I done these things?

I gave examples of how such things may be interpreted from posts
that many have made, including you, and perhaps from me too.

For example, "where do I do or have I done these things?" could be
seen as "intimidating".

No, it could not. I am accused of bullying, then you give parts of
the definition of bullying and I ask where I have done such things.
That is not intimidating.

I am unable to explain this further. I have said that not everyone
will see things one way or another.


I know, but some things are unmisunderstandable (is that a word?). I
have not done any of the things you quoted, IMO.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
Don Delegate

Posts: 18
Registered: 9/25/08
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 3:49 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Nick Hodges wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

And well, one can hardly claim, with a straight face, that
complaints have ever been shut up here.

Indeed.

Not shut up, just drowned in million posts from people
complaining about complaints and trolls.

You seem to be complaining that bad behaviour is being called out
and ignoring cases where more constructive discussion is being
encouraged.

What bad behaviour? You seem to jump on everyone that dares to say
that something about Delphi is bothering him/her. And now our valid
complaints are somehow bad behaviour, and your name calling is
perfectly fine.

This current thread is a pretty good example of bad behaviour.

You complained before about challenging unsupported claims, asking for
specifics and context and even for calling out Ridiculous Delphi is
Dead claims. I think you claimed that it was being too harsh.

You yourself claimed that you had "good reasons" to park in these
groups and take shots at Embarcadero. I think this is silly, and I
think contributing to this group becoming much less useful.

I know what I want from these groups. I have no idea what you're
trying to accomplish.

I wonder if we're arguing past each other and if we could find some
reasonable middle ground if we tried?

I hinted at this before, I'll try to be clearer now: your posts and
attitude are certainly not helping.
Au contraire.

Kind regards,
D.
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 4:21 PM   in response to: Don Delegate in response to: Don Delegate
Don Delegate wrote:

I hinted at this before, I'll try to be clearer now: your posts and
attitude are certainly not helping.
Au contraire.

That's not very clear. Or specific.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Don Delegate

Posts: 18
Registered: 9/25/08
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 4:51 PM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Don Delegate wrote:

I hinted at this before, I'll try to be clearer now: your posts and
attitude are certainly not helping.
Au contraire.

That's not very clear. Or specific.

I am talking about your self-appointed role as caller-out of the trolls.
It has gotten out of hand a bit.
Show some restraint, please.

And yes, I realize I am doing the calling-out now.
Sorry for that, won't happen again.

Kind regards,
D.

Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 5:03 PM   in response to: Don Delegate in response to: Don Delegate
Don Delegate wrote:

That's clearer.

I am talking about your self-appointed role as caller-out of the
trolls. It has gotten out of hand a bit.

The state of this group is what's gotten out of hand.

I'd like to see more people push back. And some have.

Show some restraint, please.

Tried that. It didn't help.

And yes, I realize I am doing the calling-out now.
Sorry for that, won't happen again.

Why should I be immune? Call me out if I cross the line.

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Don Delegate

Posts: 18
Registered: 9/25/08
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 1:33 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Don Delegate wrote:

That's clearer.

I am talking about your self-appointed role as caller-out of the
trolls. It has gotten out of hand a bit.

The state of this group is what's gotten out of hand.

I'd like to see more people push back. And some have.


Show some restraint, please.

Tried that. It didn't help.

And yes, I realize I am doing the calling-out now.
Sorry for that, won't happen again.

Why should I be immune? Call me out if I cross the line.

It think this calling-out business is counterproductive.
I'm doing "a Dalija" and leave this newsgroup.

Bye now.
D.
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 2:21 AM   in response to: Don Delegate in response to: Don Delegate
Don Delegate wrote:

It think this calling-out business is counterproductive.

I'm happy to hear your alternative.

I'm doing "a Dalija" and leave this newsgroup.

ok

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Rudy Velthuis (...


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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 11:26 PM   in response to: Don Delegate in response to: Don Delegate
Don Delegate wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:

Don Delegate wrote:

I hinted at this before, I'll try to be clearer now: your posts
and attitude are certainly not helping.
Au contraire.

That's not very clear. Or specific.

I am talking about your self-appointed role as caller-out of the
trolls.

He merely wants civilised behaviour and argumented criticism. Only
those who do not like civilised behaviour should have a problem with
that.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Let him who takes the Plunge remember to return it by Tuesday."
Don Delegate

Posts: 18
Registered: 9/25/08
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 12:56 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Don Delegate wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:

Don Delegate wrote:

I hinted at this before, I'll try to be clearer now: your posts
and attitude are certainly not helping.
Au contraire.

That's not very clear. Or specific.

I am talking about your self-appointed role as caller-out of the
trolls.

He merely wants civilised behaviour and argumented criticism.

Nope.
That is just the latest excuse.
He's been at it for many years.
I just feel it is getting out of hand recently.

Only
those who do not like civilised behaviour should have a problem with
that.

Antagonizing again, are we?
An example why I think you are part of the problem, and unfit to be a
moderator here.


Kind regards,
D.

Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 1:32 AM   in response to: Don Delegate in response to: Don Delegate
Don Delegate wrote:

He merely wants civilised behaviour and argumented criticism.

Nope.
That is just the latest excuse.

No, it is not. Bruce has always asked for that.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"If you think your management doesn't know what it's doing or
that your organisation turns out low-quality software crap that
embarrasses you, then leave."
-- Edward Yourdon Rise and Resurrection of the American
Programmer
Bruce McGee

Posts: 1,716
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 2:26 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

He merely wants civilised behaviour and argumented criticism. Only
those who do not like civilised behaviour should have a problem with
that.

Can't we all just get along?

--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Ian Barker Barker

Posts: 98
Registered: 5/18/07
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 8, 2014 6:22 AM   in response to: Bruce McGee in response to: Bruce McGee
Bruce McGee wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

He merely wants civilised behaviour and argumented criticism. Only
those who do not like civilised behaviour should have a problem with
that.

Can't we all just get along?

lol

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again - online forums are the
electric equivalent of arguing about religion or politics in a
sports-bar full of drunks. :)

This is the 'non-technical' group - it always was and always has been
and is a bit of a sports-bar. People vent, people say outrageous
things, people sometimes moan unfairly/fairly about Embarcadero and
before that Borland. It's not and never has been a place for polite
questions about confusing compiler errors, too slow/too fast IDEs or
package-alignment failures on iOS. It's a burger joint, it's a water
cooler, it's the top floor of a double-decker London bus.

I'm afraid I don't see any 'bullying'. I really don't. I do see some
petulance and "my dad's bigger than your dad" round-and-round bickering
sprinkled with a little name-calling.

But bullying? No. :)

--
IanB.
http://about.me/IanBarker

Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
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Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 3:43 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Bruce McGee wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Nick Hodges wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

And well, one can hardly claim, with a straight face, that
complaints have ever been shut up here.

Indeed.

Not shut up, just drowned in million posts from people complaining
about complaints and trolls.

You seem to be complaining that bad behaviour is being called out
and ignoring cases where more constructive discussion is being
encouraged.

What bad behaviour?

Unfounded ranting, often using strawman arguments and simply giving bad
information, unfounded stuff like "Delphi sux", "Delphi is dying", etc.
Probably not allowed on most other servers. I doubt it is allowed on
the MS forums.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"I'm not into working out. My philosophy: No pain, no pain."
-- Carol Leifer.
John Frazier


Posts: 726
Registered: 2/17/00
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 2, 2014 1:27 PM   in response to: Eli M in response to: Eli M
Eli M wrote:
Complainers hurt your brain.

http://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/listening-to-complainers-is-bad-for-your-brain.html

"Try to get the person who's complaining to take responsibility for a solution," Blake says. "I typically respond to a complaint with, 'What are you going to do about it?'" Many complainers walk away huffily at that point, because he hasn't given them what they wanted, Blake reports. But some may actually try to solve the problem.

Man... I am definitely in the wrong job then! :p
--
John Frazier (Embarcadero Newsgroup Admin)
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 4:43 AM   in response to: John Frazier in response to: John Frazier
Complainers hurt your brain.

That explains why I cannot work for an hour or so after visiting this
forum. I don't even know why I come here at this point honestly. Old
habits die hard I guess. I've been visiting these forums since they
were on Compuserve. I'm finding the Delphi Google+ group to be much
better than this forum.

What I really need are a couple of RSS feeds just to keep me abreast of
whats going on with Delphi. Can anyone kindly point me to a few?
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 4:48 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
What I really need are a couple of RSS feeds just to keep me abreast of
whats going on with Delphi. Can anyone kindly point me to a few?

I'll find a few. I cant stand this NG anymore. About 4 people (you
know who you are) have ruined this forum.
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 5:12 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
Mike Margerum wrote:
What I really need are a couple of RSS feeds just to keep me abreast of
whats going on with Delphi. Can anyone kindly point me to a few?

I'll find a few. I cant stand this NG anymore. About 4 people (you
know who you are) have ruined this forum.

http://www.delphifeeds.com/ is good source to stay in touch with latest news.

If I am one of those 4 people, I am truly sorry.

I also understand your sentiment and some people here ruined this place for me
as well (Rudy is not one of them, even though we fight all the time and sometimes
I want to launch him into orbit).

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Mike Margerum

Posts: 590
Registered: 12/1/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 8:21 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
http://www.delphifeeds.com/ is good source to stay in touch with latest news.

This is exactly what i'm looking for thanks! Part of my daily morning
feed reading now.
Brandon Staggs

Posts: 683
Registered: 3/3/01
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 5:52 AM   in response to: Mike Margerum in response to: Mike Margerum
"Mike Margerum" wrote on Fri, 3 Oct 2014 04:43:43 -0700:

What I really need are a couple of RSS feeds just to keep me abreast of
whats going on with Delphi. Can anyone kindly point me to a few?

http://www.delphifeeds.com/

--
Brandon Staggs
StudyLamp Software LLC
http://www.studylamp.com
> Rich <

Posts: 171
Registered: 2/6/09
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 8:39 AM   in response to: John Frazier in response to: John Frazier
John Frazier wrote:

Man... I am definitely in the wrong job then! :p

Is there anything the positive people can do to help?
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 2, 2014 9:09 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherGaul/posts/LJwDx4wqTXW

Any similarity with our beloved Delphi is purely coincidental (or not)

I haven't seen the iPhone 6 yet, but I can't imagine it is the crap
this person says it is. He seems to be an anti-Apple-boy himself (I
also have no idea why he uses the term "fanbois"). We have lots of
those here too.

I don't see any similarity with our beloved Delphi.

And note that according to some survey, Delphi coders are by far the
most happy ones. So let there be a few antiboys, who cares?

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his
salary depends on his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 2, 2014 9:20 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherGaul/posts/LJwDx4wqTXW

Any similarity with our beloved Delphi is purely coincidental (or
not)

I haven't seen the iPhone 6 yet, but I can't imagine it is the crap
this person says it is. He seems to be an anti-Apple-boy himself (I
also have no idea why he uses the term "fanbois"). We have lots of
those here too.

I mean anti-boys, not necessarily anti-Apple-boys, of course.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"The truth is more important than the facts."
-- Frank Lloyd Wright
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 2, 2014 12:21 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherGaul/posts/LJwDx4wqTXW

Any similarity with our beloved Delphi is purely coincidental (or not)

I haven't seen the iPhone 6 yet, but I can't imagine it is the crap
this person says it is. He seems to be an anti-Apple-boy himself (I
also have no idea why he uses the term "fanbois"). We have lots of
those here too.

I don't see any similarity with our beloved Delphi.

And note that according to some survey, Delphi coders are by far the
most happy ones. So let there be a few antiboys, who cares?

You have missed point by a mile. It is real life emperor's new clothes story.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 2, 2014 2:12 PM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherGaul/posts/LJwDx4wqTXW

Any similarity with our beloved Delphi is purely coincidental (or
not)

I haven't seen the iPhone 6 yet, but I can't imagine it is the crap
this person says it is. He seems to be an anti-Apple-boy himself (I
also have no idea why he uses the term "fanbois"). We have lots of
those here too.

I don't see any similarity with our beloved Delphi.

And note that according to some survey, Delphi coders are by far the
most happy ones. So let there be a few antiboys, who cares?

You have missed point by a mile. It is real life emperor's new
clothes story.

No, it is what he thinks it is. You (and he) can say what you like, but
Apple products are not "Emperor's new clothes", they are real and
certainly not crap. Apple does not always use the latest and most
innovative technology. The iPod was not the first MP3 player, but it
had qualities you did not find in other MP3 players, and that is why it
became popular.

So who cares they don't use the latest technology? Apple products are
mainly propular because of their quality and their ease of use, and
well, the sum of the individual parts. A bad cook can have the best
ingedients and still not make anything worth trying out of it. A good
cook can make a culinary poem out of a few simple ingredients.

Sure, there are so called fanboys too, but ISTM they don't influence
strategy much.

So what he writes does not even apply to Apple. It certainly does not
apply to Delphi either.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."
-- Napoleon
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 4:22 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherGaul/posts/LJwDx4wqTXW

Any similarity with our beloved Delphi is purely coincidental (or
not)

I haven't seen the iPhone 6 yet, but I can't imagine it is the crap
this person says it is. He seems to be an anti-Apple-boy himself (I
also have no idea why he uses the term "fanbois"). We have lots of
those here too.

I don't see any similarity with our beloved Delphi.

And note that according to some survey, Delphi coders are by far the
most happy ones. So let there be a few antiboys, who cares?

You have missed point by a mile. It is real life emperor's new
clothes story.

No, it is what he thinks it is. You (and he) can say what you like, but
Apple products are not "Emperor's new clothes", they are real and
certainly not crap. Apple does not always use the latest and most
innovative technology. The iPod was not the first MP3 player, but it
had qualities you did not find in other MP3 players, and that is why it
became popular.

So who cares they don't use the latest technology? Apple products are
mainly propular because of their quality and their ease of use, and
well, the sum of the individual parts. A bad cook can have the best
ingedients and still not make anything worth trying out of it. A good
cook can make a culinary poem out of a few simple ingredients.

Sure, there are so called fanboys too, but ISTM they don't influence
strategy much.

So what he writes does not even apply to Apple. It certainly does not
apply to Delphi either.

Again, you have missed the point. Apple (or any other company) name is
not main focus here. It is about fanbois that will take absolutely anything
produced by their favorite company as best thing ever, even when it is blatantly
obvious that some product has serious flaws.

It is hard for people running any company to admit their mistakes, and if your
customers cheer in agreement at anything you produce, then you don't have
the initiative to make things better or to correct mistakes when they do happen.
And mistakes happen sooner or later.

This is why blind cheerleading can actually do more harm than good for
the company and products in question.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 8:03 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherGaul/posts/LJwDx4wqTXW

Any similarity with our beloved Delphi is purely coincidental
(or not)

I haven't seen the iPhone 6 yet, but I can't imagine it is the
crap this person says it is. He seems to be an anti-Apple-boy
himself (I also have no idea why he uses the term "fanbois").
We have lots of those here too.

I don't see any similarity with our beloved Delphi.

And note that according to some survey, Delphi coders are by
far the most happy ones. So let there be a few antiboys, who
cares?

You have missed point by a mile. It is real life emperor's new
clothes story.

No, it is what he thinks it is. You (and he) can say what you like,
but Apple products are not "Emperor's new clothes", they are real
and certainly not crap. Apple does not always use the latest and
most innovative technology. The iPod was not the first MP3 player,
but it had qualities you did not find in other MP3 players, and
that is why it became popular.

So who cares they don't use the latest technology? Apple products
are mainly propular because of their quality and their ease of use,
and well, the sum of the individual parts. A bad cook can have the
best ingedients and still not make anything worth trying out of it.
A good cook can make a culinary poem out of a few simple
ingredients.

Sure, there are so called fanboys too, but ISTM they don't influence
strategy much.

So what he writes does not even apply to Apple. It certainly does
not apply to Delphi either.

Again, you have missed the point. Apple (or any other company) name
is not main focus here. It is about fanbois that will take absolutely
anything produced by their favorite company

He is calling almost all Apple users "fanbois" (what is wrong with the
word "fanboys", BTW?) who will take anything, even crap. Well, the
issue here is that most people arenot like that, they are fans because
of the products they get. That is what you seem to miss: this is not a
case of "Emperor's new clothes" at all, even if the guy claims that.

ISTM he simply tries to rant against Apple by calling all buyers
"fanboys" instead of people who simple appreciate the quality and ease
of use of the products. IOW, according to him, the product is so crappy
and so 2012 that you must be a true "fanboi" if you buy it.

So yes, this is all about Apple. He merely uses "fanbois" to explain
why people still buy Apple, despite the alleged lack of quality and
innovation.

--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"I've made an odd discovery. Every time I talk to a savant I
feel quite sure that happiness is no longer a possibility.
Yet when I talk with my gardener, I'm convinced of the
opposite." -- Bertrand Russell
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 8:12 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherGaul/posts/LJwDx4wqTXW

Any similarity with our beloved Delphi is purely coincidental
(or not)

I haven't seen the iPhone 6 yet, but I can't imagine it is the
crap this person says it is. He seems to be an anti-Apple-boy
himself (I also have no idea why he uses the term "fanbois").
We have lots of those here too.

I don't see any similarity with our beloved Delphi.

And note that according to some survey, Delphi coders are by
far the most happy ones. So let there be a few antiboys, who
cares?

You have missed point by a mile. It is real life emperor's new
clothes story.

No, it is what he thinks it is. You (and he) can say what you like,
but Apple products are not "Emperor's new clothes", they are real
and certainly not crap. Apple does not always use the latest and
most innovative technology. The iPod was not the first MP3 player,
but it had qualities you did not find in other MP3 players, and
that is why it became popular.

So who cares they don't use the latest technology? Apple products
are mainly propular because of their quality and their ease of use,
and well, the sum of the individual parts. A bad cook can have the
best ingedients and still not make anything worth trying out of it.
A good cook can make a culinary poem out of a few simple
ingredients.

Sure, there are so called fanboys too, but ISTM they don't influence
strategy much.

So what he writes does not even apply to Apple. It certainly does
not apply to Delphi either.

Again, you have missed the point. Apple (or any other company) name
is not main focus here. It is about fanbois that will take absolutely
anything produced by their favorite company

He is calling almost all Apple users "fanbois" (what is wrong with the
word "fanboys", BTW?) who will take anything, even crap. Well, the
issue here is that most people arenot like that, they are fans because
of the products they get. That is what you seem to miss: this is not a
case of "Emperor's new clothes" at all, even if the guy claims that.

ISTM he simply tries to rant against Apple by calling all buyers
"fanboys" instead of people who simple appreciate the quality and ease
of use of the products. IOW, according to him, the product is so crappy
and so 2012 that you must be a true "fanboi" if you buy it.

So yes, this is all about Apple. He merely uses "fanbois" to explain
why people still buy Apple, despite the alleged lack of quality and
innovation.

Never mind...

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Steve Thackery

Posts: 151
Registered: 4/29/06
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 10:09 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

Well, the
issue here is that most people arenot like that, they are fans because
of the products they get.

Actually, I think it is far more complicated than that. Apple products
do well for all sorts of reasons, of which product quality is only one.
A big reason is that Apple is "Not Microsoft", which seems to be
enormously important to some people, especially those who join the
bandwagon of blaming Microsoft for everything they dislike about the
modern world.

Another reason is that it's cool to be one of the "elite" who can
afford to buy products aimed at the elite end of the market. Also,
don't forget how superb Apple's marketing is compared with anybody
else's in the industry.

Yet another reason: you'd be amazed at how people seem to think there's
only one tablet computer in the world - the iPad. My cousin bought an
iPad, and I asked her why she bought an iPad in particular. "So I can
do all my emails and FaceBook and stuff when I'm in the living room."
She was genuinely surprised when I told her there were hundreds of
competing products that would do all of that for half the price. She
just thought she wanted an iPad and that's what she asked for.

No, I think Apple has one of the most irrationally positive and
supportive fan-bases of any brand. It's about far more than just
product quality; it's about being a member of an elite community who
values nothing but the best. In my experience, there really is a
strong feeling amongst Apple users that "If it's Apple, it must be
good", and that Apple can do no wrong.


--
SteveT

Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 8:05 AM   in response to: Dalija Prasnikar in response to: Dalija Prasnikar
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

It is hard for people running any company to admit their mistakes,

Not at all. And well, any update, hotfix etc. is in fact an
acknowledgement that a mistake was made (or several).
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal."
-- Leo Tolstoy (1828-1910)
Dalija Prasnikar

Posts: 2,325
Registered: 11/9/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 8:11 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

It is hard for people running any company to admit their mistakes,

Not at all. And well, any update, hotfix etc. is in fact an
acknowledgement that a mistake was made (or several).

Those are not mistakes I am referring to. Bugs are completely
different category.

--
Dalija Prasnikar
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 3, 2014 9:14 AM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Am 02.10.2014 23:12, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):


So who cares they don't use the latest technology? Apple products are
mainly propular because of their quality

Ah, so it's quality that quite a few iOS 8 users currently have severe
WiFi issues? (confirmed by heise Verlag) ;-)

Greetings

Markus
Rudy Velthuis (...


Posts: 7,731
Registered: 9/22/99
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 5, 2014 11:28 PM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Markus Humm wrote:

Am 02.10.2014 23:12, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):


So who cares they don't use the latest technology? Apple products
are mainly propular because of their quality

Ah, so it's quality that quite a few iOS 8 users currently have severe
WiFi issues? (confirmed by heise Verlag) ;-)

I have no idea. Every piece of software can have a bug. <shrug>

FWIW, I don't have these problems.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de

"C++: an octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog"
-- unknown
Markus Humm

Posts: 5,113
Registered: 11/9/03
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 6, 2014 2:00 PM   in response to: Rudy Velthuis (... in response to: Rudy Velthuis (...
Am 06.10.2014 08:28, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):
Markus Humm wrote:

Am 02.10.2014 23:12, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):


So who cares they don't use the latest technology? Apple products
are mainly propular because of their quality

Ah, so it's quality that quite a few iOS 8 users currently have severe
WiFi issues? (confirmed by heise Verlag) ;-)

I have no idea. Every piece of software can have a bug. <shrug>

FWIW, I don't have these problems.

Then consider you lucky as the WiFi problem seems to be a lot more
widespread than the "my iPhone 6 does bend too much" issue. ;-)
Should have been detected during testing stage but seems to have slipped.

Greetings

Markus
Robert Triest

Posts: 687
Registered: 3/24/05
Re: Good read on fanbois...
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  Posted: Oct 7, 2014 12:23 AM   in response to: Markus Humm in response to: Markus Humm
Then consider you lucky as the WiFi problem seems to be a lot more
widespread than the "my iPhone 6 does bend too much" issue. ;-)
Even worse is the "My iPhone 6 is ripping my hair out" issue..

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/10/iphone-6-hair-gate/
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