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Last Post By: Rudy Velthuis (...
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This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for its
RAD Studio product line"
http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/44078
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Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for its
RAD Studio product line"
Come on Bruce.. have you never learned that you should not post good things about Embarcadero or Delphi in non-tech?? Obviously those numbers are faked  |
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"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for its
RAD Studio product line"
Come on Bruce.. have you never learned that you should not post good things about Embarcadero or Delphi in non-tech?? Obviously those
numbers are faked
They're not "faked" - they're to be analysed with a skeptical eye, something which is not done around here because it tells them what they want to hear.
I'm reminded of the 2013 U.S. tv season. A network put out a press release stating that show X was "One of the top 10 new comedies of the 2013 fall season!"
Wow, that sounds impressive, right? Well, there's no mention of what the exact rank is, is there? Answer: 10. I guess "We're the 10th best new comedy" isn't as catchy. But wait, there's no mention about how many new comedies there were, are there? Answer: 13. On top of that, two had already been canceled by the time this press release was issued and one more was widely expected not to return after winter break as no more new episodes were ordered (it did not in fact return).
This meant the show was really 10th out of the 10 non-canceled comedies, or more aptly "The lowest-rated new comedy that hasn't been canceled yet". In fact, it would not get renewed for a second season. Yet this was all spun into "One of the top 10 new comedies" without stating a single lie or fabricating anything.
And THAT'S why you can't just swallow whole anything put out by a PR department press release. Even moreso let's keep in mind two facts:
1) After the infamous database EULA issue David I. claimed that the change was only proposed, something which others broke NDA to refute. This meant either he lied or someone lied to him.
2) There was a period during which EMBT didn't release any report at all on sales. Embarcadero Insider claimed beforehand that sales had tanked after the disastrous rollout of FM1. EMBT skipped this period and then in their next release trumpeted "Sales were up!" Of course they were up if they had been abnormally low before. This is a clear indication that these reports are marketing spin and not a dispassionate reporting of data and why they have to be analyzed carefully.
Now, I work with numbers and data all the time. My previous job title was "logistics analyst". Analyzing numbers was a core responsibility. And right off the bat, without even reading the release, I can see exactly how it's being spun and manipulated. Bruce, please, please, please pay attention. I've tried to explain this stuff to you on your blog before. The problem is that people are going to be drawing conclusions unwarranted from the actual claims.
Note this important bit: "for its RAD Studio product line". Actually I just went and skimmed the release AND THERE'S NO DATA BEYOND WHAT'S IN THE TITLE! The entire press release is self-promotional fluff. That's embarrassing. So, literally, all we have is the title to go by. Units are an important concept to keep in mind when analyzing figures. Spacecraft have been lost for failure to do this. The Rad Studio product line - what exactly do they consider part of the Rad Studio product line? We don't know, as they don't define it. Is AppMethod part of the Rad Studio product line? As usual, who the heck knows? But if it is (and there's more reason to assume it is than that it isn't), then they're comparing periods of time in which they were selling more products to a time they were selling LESS products and proclaiming "sales are up!" That may be, but if anyone's inferring that that means that Delphi sales are up (which the vagueness of the title is meant to lead one to believe) there's no actual claim of this. Delphi sales, and profits, could even be down as there's nothing about these either. In fact, we don't even know WHAT IS UP!!! Is it sales dollars or sales units? IT DOESN'T SAY. Do you see why one should not be so quick to jump up and start waving this empty press release around? There are entire BOOKS dedicated to reading corporate earnings reports to learn to read between the lines. This press release only has one line of actual data!
This type of game has been done by EMBT again and again. The year in which they switched to a six-month release cycle they proclaimed sales growth over the year before. Of COURSE there will be more units sold if you have two product releases in the same year compared to only having one! They did this with the claim about world tour attendees too. They claimed total attendance was up, but they also went to more cities. There's the implication that interest was greater, but it could have meant that attendance was down on the per-event level (which they didn't release data on).
So, once again, this one-line claim doesn't tell us very much at all that's useful to the state of Delphi: not whether Delphi sales are up or down or how many, if any, new users they brought in or even if revenue is up or down. People dismiss these reports again and again because the original posters read far too much into them. These PR statements are flawed and vague and simply aren't an indicator of anything useful - you know, what everyone says about TIOBE.
If one wants to support the idea that Delphi is rising again to take over the world, please cite some - or any - additional corroborating evidence. Meanwhile, every quantifiable metric that exists suggests the opposite. I did a study on package/module repositories over the weekend. Not only is Delphi package growth on Torry averaging about 0.77 per day, that's only by using the early years. The last three years average out to about 0.1 packages per day and between Sept. 2013 and 2014 the number of packages have DECREASED for a negative growth rate! Meanwhile some other repositories for major languages show that they're adding as many packages in one year as Torry has done in its entire existence! An analysis of Stack Overflow showed that, other than at the very beginning of SO's existence, the number of Delphi questions as a percentage of total questions has decreased every single year. Other than C# (because of an anomalously high percentage of questions in the first months of SO's existence) no other major language I looked at had a slope like that. Rather new languages such as Scala have already surpassed Delphi as well.
The percentage of new projects on Github written in Delphi has been on the decline as well, from 34th in 2012 to 39th in 2013. Since Delphi never cracked to top 20 it was omitted from the original compiler's 2014 survey, so I'm downloading the raw data now to crunch myself.
In short, not only does the press release not tell us much, the unwarranted inference being made from it contradicts any quantifiable measurement of Delphi users put forth so far. Heck even the testimonials turn out to be the same ones David I. gleaned from a survey with massive selection bias (which he won't admit to, despite the selection criterion being the first people to purchase XE7 when it was released, rather like polling people waiting in line for the new iphone about whether they like Apple). Of the companies listed most if not all turn out to be single person operations - it's hard to tell with one because its website is broken. None of the comments from neutral reviews from websites or magazines or from enterprise-scale operations. Amusingly, one appears to be very much behind Xamarin rather than AppMethod and every single post on the first page of the company blog relates to Mono, .NET and/or Xamarin. Oops!
And that's the difference between digging beneath the surface and jumping up and down when someone suggests something you want to hear. When a True Believer takes the time to crunch gigs of archived github log data or perform queries against Stack Overflow's server or devise an alternative to TIOBE (or even describe what would be an acceptable metric) then I'm going to be impressed. Also it would be nice if EMBT made financial statements that were more than one sentence long and that actually had units of measurement attached to them. Same with attendance records, etc. |
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Statistics ...
But why should EMB not have growth in sales. Do your really think the die hard native developers were on Delphi. Really?
Sales did grow. The interpretation of the causes is another story but why not praise ones own products.
I think it's no good advice to doubt sales number using arguments from a technical perspective. Same with Win 8. If MS does see the reason for the lazy adoption of Windows in the Windows product then they are assuming that Windows was the driver for the PC sales. Indeed it must have been vice versa too but I think people wanted a computer. And now more and more people want another kind of computer or no computer at all just a smartphone. Mobile people need mobile computers. Mobile is simply not only no cables...
I think the PC grew with the Internet. It started to boom with networking. Win 3.11... The big advantage of mobile devices is that you have all you need from your home with you in the pocket. That's the evolution. If people could move into their smartphone they would do. A mobile device is not a lightweight PC. That's the point. From that perspective the Windows adoption rate does not look that bad. No need to worry about MS. For the same reason don't worry about EMB. They existed before most people got to know them and they will continue to exist when most of the people will have forgotten them. We are about 7 billion humans on that plant ... Assuming just 3 billion or 2 that can make use of IT stuff maybe little more - 20% of 0,01% of those people. Maybe more appropriate 0,005%. Divide this number by 5 in order to get the 20%. 0,001% or 0,002%. A growth in the number of Delphi users in the world is simply not significant. It does not matter how many users use VS because the number is still almost no one in the world In both cases it's the increase of a number almost not worth mentioning.
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for its
RAD Studio product line"
Come on Bruce.. have you never learned that you should not post good things about Embarcadero or Delphi in non-tech?? Obviously those
numbers are faked
They're not "faked" - they're to be analysed with a skeptical eye, something which is not done around here because it tells them what they want to hear.
I'm reminded of the 2013 U.S. tv season. A network put out a press release stating that show X was "One of the top 10 new comedies of the 2013 fall season!"
Wow, that sounds impressive, right? Well, there's no mention of what the exact rank is, is there? Answer: 10. I guess "We're the 10th best new comedy" isn't as catchy. But wait, there's no mention about how many new comedies there were, are there? Answer: 13. On top of that, two had already been canceled by the time this press release was issued and one more was widely expected not to return after winter break as no more new episodes were ordered (it did not in fact return).
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Delphi Programming is fun. Hilarious. |
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Eric Fleming Bonilha wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for
its RAD Studio product line"
Come on Bruce.. have you never learned that you should not post good
things about Embarcadero or Delphi in non-tech?? Obviously those
numbers are faked
Think of it like a Rorschach test.
The press release, as stated, is objectively a positive indicator. The
responses say more about the posters than about Embarcadero.
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Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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Bruce McGee wrote:
Expect a heavy attack on that kind of news, and another "Delphi is
dying" thread.
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Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
SNAFU Equations:
1. Given any problem containing N equations, there will be N+1
unknowns.
2. An object or bit of information most needed will be least
available.
3. Any device requiring service or adjustment will be least
accessible.
4. Interchangeable devices won't.
5. In any human endeavor, once you have exhausted all
possibilities and fail, there will be one solution, simple
and obvious, highly visible to everyone else.
6. Badness comes in waves. |
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Expect a heavy attack on that kind of news, and another "Delphi is
dying" thread.
Don't worry, even COBOL is still alive and it looks MicroFocus does more money than Embarcadero with it... |
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Luigi Sandon wrote:
Expect a heavy attack on that kind of news, and another "Delphi is
dying" thread.
Don't worry, even COBOL is still alive and it looks MicroFocus does
more money than Embarcadero with it...
Well yes, of course. I don't think Embarcadero makes any money with
COBOL at all.
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Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Sterling's Corollary to Clarke's Law: Any sufficiently advanced
garbage is indistinguishable from magic." |
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Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Well yes, of course. I don't think Embarcadero makes any money with
COBOL at all.
LOL...
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Manfredt Kavetu |
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Expect a heavy attack on that kind of news, and another "Delphi is
dying" thread.
We need a new positive forum for Delphi. Something that aligns with the advocate's view. I'm not saying to get rid of the rest of the forums. I think everyone should be able to state their view. But a forum that doesn't allow negative discussions about Delphi would make it better for the people who want to use Delphi because well... They want to use Delphi.
It's a waste of my time having to scan for troll posts. If mods could delete negative posts because they violate forum rules then my time in that forum could be fully productive. |
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Expect a heavy attack on that kind of news, and another "Delphi is
dying" thread.
We need a new positive forum for Delphi. Something that aligns with the advocate's view. I'm not saying to get rid of the rest of the forums. I think everyone should be able to state their view. But a forum that doesn't allow negative discussions about Delphi would make it better for the people who want to use Delphi because well... They want to use Delphi.
I want to use Delphi, I want it to be the best tool there is, but that also
means that I have to point things that can be better and improved.
It's a waste of my time having to scan for troll posts. If mods could delete negative posts because they violate forum rules then my time in that forum could be fully productive.
Would that include posts about bugs and similar issues? Maybe we should
get rid of QC because it shows how many bugs are there.
If all the cheerleaders here would actually do less empty cheerleading, and
more fruitfull discussions on how to make Delphi better and not call everyone
else trolls, then this could indeed be more productive place.
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Dalija Prasnikar |
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Dalija,
I think a positive only forum will bring back people who got tired of the crap postings here. People would come here to discuss Delphi and they would get inundated with all kinds of Delphi hater posts. I have used Delphi since version 1 and I like it. But I had to reduce my time here because of all the crap.
BTW... Suggestions for improvements to Delphi can always be stated in a positive way.
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On 09/24/2014 11:20 PM, > Rich < wrote:
Dalija,
I think a positive only forum will bring back people who got tired of the crap postings here. People would come here to discuss Delphi and they would get inundated with all kinds of Delphi hater posts. I have used Delphi since version 1 and I like it. But I had to reduce my time here because of all the crap.
BTW... Suggestions for improvements to Delphi can always be stated in a positive way.
Reddit has its circle jerk sub-reddits where people can complain/spoof/mock/parody all
they want and as loud as they want. Emb needs its own Delphi circle jerk forum. |
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Dalija,
I think a positive only forum will bring back people who got tired of the crap postings here. People would come here to discuss Delphi and they would get inundated with all kinds of Delphi hater posts. I have used Delphi since version 1 and I like it. But I had to reduce my time here because of all the crap.
BTW... Suggestions for improvements to Delphi can always be stated in a positive way.
QC#127815
Steps:
1. Create a new Console Application
2. Add Target Platforms (64-bit Windows)
3. Change Project's Build Configurations to Release
4. Edit the Release Configurations's Options.
Set "Delphi Compiler -> Compiling -> Debugging -> Debug information" to be True.
5.Set a break point at the any lines in the project. (e.g. at "begin" line)
6. Then press F9 to run and debug.
In XE2, the application will stop at the line "begin"
In XE7, the breakpoint has no effect. I can not debug Relase application in source code.
================================================================
They marked as "Test case error". How can i positive? Positive is depend on what they doing. But no block other people's mouth. |
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I want to use Delphi, I want it to be the best tool there is, but that also
means that I have to point things that can be better and improved.
Yes but over and over again? |
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I want to use Delphi, I want it to be the best tool there is, but that also
means that I have to point things that can be better and improved.
Yes but over and over again?
Many threads have been started by different people that are bumping at same
restrictions and have similar issues. That is why things get repeated over and
over again.
And there is Rudy, of course 
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Dalija Prasnikar |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
I want to use Delphi, I want it to be the best tool there is, but
that also means that I have to point things that can be better
and improved.
Yes but over and over again?
Many threads have been started by different people that are bumping
at same restrictions and have similar issues. That is why things get
repeated over and over again.
And there is Rudy, of course
Oh come on, you are guilty of bringing up the same issues over and over
again. I only occasionally mention FreeAndNil.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it
everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong
remedies." -- Groucho Marx |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
I want to use Delphi, I want it to be the best tool there is, but
that also means that I have to point things that can be better
and improved.
Yes but over and over again?
Many threads have been started by different people that are bumping
at same restrictions and have similar issues. That is why things get
repeated over and over again.
And there is Rudy, of course
Oh come on, you are guilty of bringing up the same issues over and over
again. I only occasionally mention FreeAndNil.
I didn't started latest 8-bit strings post.
And I mentioned you only because I am repeating myself over and over again
trying to explain things to you (most of the time). I should know better.
--
Dalija Prasnikar |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
I want to use Delphi, I want it to be the best tool there is,
but that also means that I have to point things that can be
better and improved.
Yes but over and over again?
Many threads have been started by different people that are
bumping at same restrictions and have similar issues. That is why
things get repeated over and over again.
And there is Rudy, of course
Oh come on, you are guilty of bringing up the same issues over and
over again. I only occasionally mention FreeAndNil.
I didn't started latest 8-bit strings post.
No, but you jump on it immediately.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
Goebel's Second Law Of Useless Difficulty: The fastest way to get
something done is to determine that it isn't worth doing. |
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Posts:
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
I want to use Delphi, I want it to be the best tool there is,
but that also means that I have to point things that can be
better and improved.
Yes but over and over again?
Many threads have been started by different people that are
bumping at same restrictions and have similar issues. That is why
things get repeated over and over again.
And there is Rudy, of course
Oh come on, you are guilty of bringing up the same issues over and
over again. I only occasionally mention FreeAndNil.
I didn't started latest 8-bit strings post.
No, but you jump on it immediately.
It didn't take you long either.
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Dalija Prasnikar |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
I didn't started latest 8-bit strings post.
No, but you jump on it immediately.
It didn't take you long either.
Just coincidence. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should,
therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense."
-- Edsger Dijkstra |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
I didn't started latest 8-bit strings post.
No, but you jump on it immediately.
It didn't take you long either.
Just coincidence. <g>
Yeah, right.
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Dalija Prasnikar |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
And there is Rudy, of course
Rudy's got nothing on you.
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Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
If all the cheerleaders here would actually do less empty
cheerleading, and more fruitfull discussions on how to make Delphi
better and not call everyone else trolls, then this could indeed be
more productive place.
That's rich. (no pun intended, Rich).
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
If all the cheerleaders here would actually do less empty
cheerleading, and more fruitfull discussions on how to make Delphi
better
I assume you mean people like me. If I'm a "cheerleader" doing "empty
cheerleading", then what are you? A hooligan? <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"My advice to you is get married: if you find a good wife you'll
be happy; if not, you'll become a philosopher."
-- Socrates (470-399 B.C.) |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
If all the cheerleaders here would actually do less empty
cheerleading, and more fruitfull discussions on how to make Delphi
better
I assume you mean people like me. If I'm a "cheerleader" doing "empty
cheerleading", then what are you? A hooligan? <g>
Maybe
Just for the reference, you are not part of the cheerleading pack. You have
your own category and it is called Rudy.
--
Dalija Prasnikar |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
If all the cheerleaders here would actually do less empty
cheerleading, and more fruitfull discussions on how to make Delphi
better
I assume you mean people like me. If I'm a "cheerleader" doing
"empty cheerleading", then what are you? A hooligan? <g>
Maybe
Just for the reference, you are not part of the cheerleading pack.
You have your own category and it is called Rudy.
I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species. I am
what Sheldon always wanted to be.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"The believer is happy; the doubter is wise."
-- Hungarian Proverb |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
If all the cheerleaders here would actually do less empty
cheerleading, and more fruitfull discussions on how to make Delphi
better
I assume you mean people like me. If I'm a "cheerleader" doing
"empty cheerleading", then what are you? A hooligan? <g>
Maybe
Just for the reference, you are not part of the cheerleading pack.
You have your own category and it is called Rudy.
I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species. I am
what Sheldon always wanted to be.
Yep. I am not so sure you should be so happy about it
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Dalija Prasnikar |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
If all the cheerleaders here would actually do less empty
cheerleading, and more fruitfull discussions on how to make
Delphi better
I assume you mean people like me. If I'm a "cheerleader" doing
"empty cheerleading", then what are you? A hooligan? <g>
Maybe
Just for the reference, you are not part of the cheerleading pack.
You have your own category and it is called Rudy.
I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species. I am
what Sheldon always wanted to be.
Yep. I am not so sure you should be so happy about it
But it is great to be one of a kind!
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"If you are going through hell, keep going."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
If all the cheerleaders here would actually do less empty
cheerleading, and more fruitfull discussions on how to make
Delphi better
I assume you mean people like me. If I'm a "cheerleader" doing
"empty cheerleading", then what are you? A hooligan? <g>
Maybe
Just for the reference, you are not part of the cheerleading pack.
You have your own category and it is called Rudy.
I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species. I am
what Sheldon always wanted to be.
Yep. I am not so sure you should be so happy about it
But it is great to be one of a kind!
Can't argue that.
--
Dalija Prasnikar |
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Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Just for the reference, you are not part of the cheerleading
pack. You have your own category and it is called Rudy.
I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species.
I am what Sheldon always wanted to be.
Yep. I am not so sure you should be so happy about it
But it is great to be one of a kind!
Can't argue that.
<Sheldon>
I know.
</Sheldon>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"The road to wisdom?"
Well its plain and simple to express:
Err and err and err again,
but less and less and less." -- Piet Hein |
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Rudy,
| | Yep. I am not so sure you should be so happy about it
|
| But it is great to be one of a kind!
Weeelll... it does depend on what the kind is!
--
Q
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Quentin Correll wrote:
Rudy,
| Yep. I am not so sure you should be so happy about it
But it is great to be one of a kind!
Weeelll... it does depend on what the kind is!
Nah, not really. It is simply great to be unique. Isn't that what
everyone wants to be?
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"So long as the deceit ran along quiet and monotonous, all of
us let ourselves be deceived, abetting it unawares or maybe
through cowardice..." -- William Faulkner |
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Rudy,
| It is simply great to be unique. Isn't that what
| everyone wants to be?
Damifino.
--
Q
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Anders Isaksson wrote:
That's the negative view on uniqueness. Not mine. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"New programmers are drawn to multithreading like moths to flame,
with similar results." -- Tweet by Danny Thorpe |
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Am 29.09.2014 17:04, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
If all the cheerleaders here would actually do less empty
cheerleading, and more fruitfull discussions on how to make
Delphi better
I assume you mean people like me. If I'm a "cheerleader" doing
"empty cheerleading", then what are you? A hooligan? <g>
Maybe
Just for the reference, you are not part of the cheerleading pack.
You have your own category and it is called Rudy.
I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species. I am
what Sheldon always wanted to be.
Yep. I am not so sure you should be so happy about it
But it is great to be one of a kind!
Not sure. it also means: you're the last of that kind! (and the first )
Greetings
Markus |
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Markus Humm wrote:
Am 29.09.2014 17:04, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
If all the cheerleaders here would actually do less empty
cheerleading, and more fruitfull discussions on how to make
Delphi better
I assume you mean people like me. If I'm a "cheerleader" doing
"empty cheerleading", then what are you? A hooligan? <g>
Maybe
Just for the reference, you are not part of the cheerleading
pack. >>>> You have your own category and it is called Rudy.
I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species. I
am >>> what Sheldon always wanted to be.
Yep. I am not so sure you should be so happy about it
But it is great to be one of a kind!
Not sure. it also means: you're the last of that kind!
Not necessarily the last.
The first airplane was also one of a kind, and now there are millions.
<g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Woman was God's second mistake."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900) |
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Rudy,
| I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species. I am
| what Sheldon always wanted to be.
<giggle> I didn't know you got The Big Bang Theory in Germany. Cool!
--
Q
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On 9/29/2014 10:30 AM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Rudy,
| I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species. I am
| what Sheldon always wanted to be.
<giggle> I didn't know you got The Big Bang Theory in Germany. Cool!
There appear to be two aspects to that -- do they get 'The Big Bang
Theory' in Germany, and do they "get" 'The Big Bang Theory' in Germany?
David Erbas-White |
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David,
| There appear to be two aspects to that -- do they get 'The Big Bang
| Theory' in Germany, and do they "get" 'The Big Bang Theory' in
| Germany?
<chuckle ;->
--
Q
1.19.1.372 (Q's Broken Toolbar.) |
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David Erbas-White wrote:
On 9/29/2014 10:30 AM, Quentin Correll wrote:
Rudy,
I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species. I
am what Sheldon always wanted to be.
<giggle> I didn't know you got The Big Bang Theory in Germany.
Cool!
There appear to be two aspects to that -- do they get 'The Big Bang
Theory' in Germany, and do they "get" 'The Big Bang Theory' in
Germany?
Both. Not everyone likes or gets it, of course, but that is probably
the same in the US.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"When a thing has been said and said well, have no scruple.
Take it and copy it."
-- Anatole France |
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Quentin Correll wrote:
Rudy,
I am my own category? Bazinga! I might even be my own species. I am
what Sheldon always wanted to be.
<giggle> I didn't know you got The Big Bang Theory in Germany.
Cool!
Of course. This is not the end of the world. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
Cohn's Law: The more time you spend in reporting on what you are
doing, the less time you have to do anything. Stability is
achieved when you spend all your time reporting on the nothing
you are doing. |
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Rudy,
| | <giggle> I didn't know you got The Big Bang Theory in Germany.
| | Cool!
| Of course. This is not the end of the world. <g>
I am totally ignorant as to who/where in the world get what US TV
programs. I was legitimately surprised when you expressed detailed
knowledge of The Big Bang Theory. <g>
--
Q
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Rich wrote:
Expect a heavy attack on that kind of news, and another "Delphi is
dying" thread.
We need a new positive forum for Delphi.
Only positive opinions allowed? Hmmm... Nah.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
Deadline-Dan's Demon: Every task takes twice as long as you think
it will take. If you double the time you think it will take, it
will actually take four times as long. |
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Rich wrote:
We need a new positive forum for Delphi. Something that aligns with
the advocate's view. I'm not saying to get rid of the rest of the
forums. I think everyone should be able to state their view. But a
forum that doesn't allow negative discussions about Delphi would make
it better for the people who want to use Delphi because well... They
want to use Delphi.
It's a waste of my time having to scan for troll posts. If mods could
delete negative posts because they violate forum rules then my time
in that forum could be fully productive.
I meant to reply to this sooner.
I really don't think a "positive only" forum is the way to go.
Of course, deliberately malicious and obvious troll posts should be
eliminated with extreme prejudice, but a couple of my favourite
anecdotes from this group started off as rants, but became something a
lot more interesting and useful.
It requires some intellectual honesty, but constructive complaining can
be a good thing. Constant complaining for the sake of complaining or
because of some imaginary "valid reasons" - not so much.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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I really don't think a "positive only" forum is the way to go.
It would work.
Examples:
I don't like that C++ uses null terminated strings. If I had a length byte it would help me <this way> and <this other way>.
or
I don't like that C++ uses null terminated strings. C++ is a crap language. The people who make it suck. I'm never using it again.
The first example gets the same point across but it does it in a positive way. Leading to positive comments and a positive outcome. It really does work. |
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Rich wrote:
Examples:
I don't like that C++ uses null terminated strings.
Use std::string. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"A hen is only an eggís way of making another egg."
-- Samuel Butler |
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Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Bruce McGee wrote:
Expect a heavy attack on that kind of news, and another "Delphi is
dying" thread.
Or, as it turns out, people hanging out in a Delphi forum hosted by
Embarcadero explaining how stupid and gullible everyone else is for
saying anything positive about either one.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for its
RAD Studio product line"
It's funny how even developers could be deceived by numbers put out without any context... if you make some calculations for each of these boasting announcements from Embarcadero that follow every relese, Delphi should be now probably the most widely used and known development tool in the world, which almost a 400% increase in sales compared to a few years ago. It doesn't happen - or no one noticed, why?
Maybe because "year-over-year sales growth of 23%" is meaningless if you don't specify if it's in units sold, revenues, or whatever else? If you don't factor price raises into it? If you don't specify 23% of what starting number?
The very fact Delphi sales have issues is disclosed by the attempts to modify the license over and over to hinder some kind of development and attempt to move customers to more expensive SKUs, and the "special offers" every three months or so (not to talk about the development offshoring to cheaper countries, and the need to use externally developed compilers because of lack of internal resources, skills and expertise).
If Delphi was selling so well, Embarcadero would not have any reason to adopt such schemes - nobody else among its main competitor does. |
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That's a ritual ... In socialism you hear from speakers at every corner how good things are until you start believing. That said once you see Mr. Williams' or Marco's head only but big on the welcome page of the EMB portal you know you are there. Until that day don't worry.
Agree to a certain degree the impression is left that the growth numbers are as reliable as growth numbers from China. We simply don't know since we don't have insight. So the option to either believe or not is left. No one can say what the current user base was and still is. As long as there is activity and new faces can be found in the various places EMB are advertising (to) their community.
Aside from that it's their freedom to post their sales number but they will no post absolute numbers. MS invests one billion into almost everything. ADO.net, Win 8 launch ... Who does believe those numbers? Numbers are numbers. Does this have any impact on the relative popularity of their products?
Honestly. I don't doubt the sales numbers. A few people in Non-Tech cannot be the customer base exclusively, not those in the forums and in overall in the social media world. It's simply about new customers ... why not.
Those who did not spend a cent for whatever reason will not spend a cent in the future and those who did will do anyway. The overall number of people willing to invest into tools is shrinking and the one who buys maybe no longer the sole developer. That's a guess. I have no idea and no numbers. Either you are an Open Source communist or a Windows liberal. Anything else is called Apple - Commercial Communism. Bigger than Bigger. The ideological leaders are devices.
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for its
RAD Studio product line"
If Delphi was selling so well, Embarcadero would not have any reason to adopt such schemes - nobody else among its main competitor does.
--
Delphi Programming is fun. Hilarious. |
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Luigi Sandon wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for
its RAD Studio product line"
It's funny how even developers could be deceived by numbers put out
without any context...
What "context" does a message about a 23% revenue increase need? I
mean, that can only be bad news, right?
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"When liberty is taken away by force it can be restored by
force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default, it can
never be recovered."
-- Dorothy Thompson |
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Am 25.09.2014 23:11, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):
Luigi Sandon wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for
its RAD Studio product line"
It's funny how even developers could be deceived by numbers put out
without any context...
What "context" does a message about a 23% revenue increase need? I
mean, that can only be bad news, right?
No, but it can be meaningless as well.
Tossing a single figure like that at the press is meaningless. Every
economics teacher will tell you this at once confronted with such a thing.
Greetings
Markus |
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Markus Humm wrote:
Am 25.09.2014 23:11, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):
Luigi Sandon wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for
its RAD Studio product line"
It's funny how even developers could be deceived by numbers put out
without any context...
What "context" does a message about a 23% revenue increase need? I
mean, that can only be bad news, right?
No, but it can be meaningless as well.
It is certainly not meaningless. It means that Delphi is selling well,
which is a good thing.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"The corporation is a true Frankenstein's monster, an
artificial person run amok, responsible only to its own
soulless self."
-- William Dugger |
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Am 02.10.2014 09:09, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):
Markus Humm wrote:
Am 25.09.2014 23:11, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):
Luigi Sandon wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for
its RAD Studio product line"
It's funny how even developers could be deceived by numbers put out
without any context...
What "context" does a message about a 23% revenue increase need? I
mean, that can only be bad news, right?
No, but it can be meaningless as well.
It is certainly not meaningless. It means that Delphi is selling well,
which is a good thing.
Having more data would result in a clearer picture and less speculation
here.
Greetings
Markus |
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Markus Humm wrote:
Am 02.10.2014 09:09, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):
Markus Humm wrote:
Am 25.09.2014 23:11, schrieb Rudy Velthuis (TeamB):
Luigi Sandon wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014
for >>>>> its RAD Studio product line"
It's funny how even developers could be deceived by numbers put
out >>>> without any context...
What "context" does a message about a 23% revenue increase need? I
mean, that can only be bad news, right?
No, but it can be meaningless as well.
It is certainly not meaningless. It means that Delphi is selling
well, which is a good thing.
Having more data would result in a clearer picture and less
speculation here.
They don't really issue the data just for this group full of
naysaysers, so that's OK.
Fact is that a repeated significant increase in Delphi revenue over
several years is a good thing (especially for Embarcadero and Delphi),
no matter how you look at it, and no matter the exact details.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Can you sympathize with an exploding star?"
-- Shawn Mikula |
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Markus Humm wrote:
Having more data would result in a clearer picture and less
speculation here.
I doubt it.
Embarcadero reported significant year over year growth in revenue for
the first four full years that it owned Delphi and part of the year
after that. Speculation about how it could only mean bad news was
rampant.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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Luigi Sandon wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for
its RAD Studio product line"
if you make some calculations for each of
these boasting announcements from Embarcadero that follow every
relese, Delphi should be now probably the most widely used and known
development tool in the world, which almost a 400% increase in sales
compared to a few years ago. It doesn't happen - or no one noticed,
why?
Who says no one noticed?
Maybe because "year-over-year sales growth of 23%" is meaningless if
you don't specify if it's in units sold, revenues, or whatever else?
Revenue. As stated, and just like the last time this came up.
Increased revenue is good. It pays for more feature work.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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Luigi Sandon wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for
its RAD Studio product line"
It's funny how even developers could be deceived by numbers put out
without any context... if you make some calculations for each of
these boasting announcements from Embarcadero that follow every
relese, Delphi should be now probably the most widely used and known
development tool in the world, which almost a 400% increase in sales
compared to a few years ago. It doesn't happen - or no one noticed,
why?
Maybe because "year-over-year sales growth of 23%" is meaningless if
you don't specify if it's in units sold, revenues, or whatever else?
No, it is not meaningless at all. It is pretty clear that it is an 23%
increase in revenue. If that happens year over year, it takes a really
cronky argumentation to see that as something negative.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"One-tenth of the folks run the world. One-tenth watch them run
it, and the other eighty percent don't know what the hell's
going on."
-- Jake Simmons |
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Bruce McGee wrote:
As stated before, sales growth figures refer to revenue.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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Bruce McGee wrote:
As stated before, sales growth figures refer to revenue.
I also see a growth in Delphi around me. What I see is that Delphi is not as "dead" as some people think. Delphi is mainly popular among small ISVs who have 1-5 developers working with Delphi.
That said, the growth in EMBT revenue may come from their constant appetite to increase prices. I think it is the actual number of new user license sales that counts here not the gross revenue.
Finally, I believe that EMBT can sell more new user licenses if they start selling Delphi at a reasonable price. Current new user price for Delphi Enterprise is just ridiculous. Especially for EMEA users who must pay in Euro. |
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Farshad Mohajeri skrev 2014-09-27 12:54:
That said, the growth in EMBT revenue may come from their constant appetite to increase prices. I think it is the actual number of new user license sales that counts here not the gross revenue.
The economic laws of supply of demand would tell us they can do because
people buy it. They probably do what is best for their income, even if
it is not for my or your wallets.
/Anders |
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Anders Gustavsson wrote:
The economic laws of supply of demand would tell us they can do
because people buy it. They probably do what is best for their
income, even if it is not for my or your wallets.
Indeed -- well said.
I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.
I've said it a million times here: businesses price to maximize
profits. If lowering prices would increase profits, a business will
do it. If raising prices will increase profits, a business will do
it.
Why does EMBT price things in EUR as they do? Because it maximizes
their profits.
It's simple, basic economics. Why it's so hard to get is a mystery to
me.
--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun |
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Nick Hodges wrote:
Why does EMBT price things in EUR as they do? Because it maximizes
their profits.
It's simple, basic economics. Why it's so hard to get is a mystery to
me.
It is not hard to get, but hard to accept for some, especially for
those who think they know better. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
-- Albert Einstein |
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LOL, you should not speak too loud about that...
Ole
It is not hard to get, but hard to accept for some, especially for
those who think they know better. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
-- Albert Einstein |
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Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
It is not hard to get, but hard to accept for some, especially for
those who think they know better. <g>
Or, more generally, it is hard to accept for those who have to pay a
much higher price than is charged in the US. Everybody understands why
it's done (you charge what the market will bear), but it is still hard
to live with it sometimes.
--
SteveT |
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Steve Thackery wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
It is not hard to get, but hard to accept for some, especially for
those who think they know better. <g>
Or, more generally, it is hard to accept for those who have to pay a
much higher price than is charged in the US.
Agreed, but what Nick says applies. They charge what they think they
"can get away with". That is true for many products, including
electronics, cars, etc.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Two attitudes are all that is needed; do not harm anything,
say and do things that make others happy."
-- dreamslaughter |
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Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Agreed, but what Nick says applies. They charge what they think they
"can get away with". That is true for many products, including
electronics, cars, etc.
Yes, we agree entirely on this, and I wasn't disagreeing with Nick
either. I'm simply saying that understanding why doesn't necessarily
make it any easier to live with.
I'm amazed by how cheap many products are in the USA compared with
Europe. The USA already has a higher material standard of living that
Europe, so in theory they should be paying more, not less.
--
SteveT |
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Steve Thackery wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Agreed, but what Nick says applies. They charge what they think they
"can get away with". That is true for many products, including
electronics, cars, etc.
Yes, we agree entirely on this, and I wasn't disagreeing with Nick
either. I'm simply saying that understanding why doesn't necessarily
make it any easier to live with.
I'm amazed by how cheap many products are in the USA compared with
Europe.
OTOH, other products are much cheaper in Europe. But people tend to
oversee that.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"God is love, but get it in writing." -- Gypsy Rose Lee. |
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Rudy,
| But people tend to oversee that.
overlook
--
Q
1.19.1.372 (Q's Broken Toolbar.)
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Quentin Correll wrote:
Rudy,
But people tend to oversee that.
overlook
Yes, indeed.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"He would make a lovely corpse."
-- Charles Dickens (1812-1870) |
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Rudy,
| | > But people tend to oversee that.
| |
| | overlook
|
| Yes, indeed.
My brain-fingers do stuff like that to me every once in a while. The
other day in an e-mail I was thinking "fair" but my fingers typed
"fare." <sigh>
--
Q
1.19.1.372 (Q's Broken Toolbar.)
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Quentin,
| | | > But people tend to oversee that.
| | |
| | | overlook
| |
| | Yes, indeed.
|
| My brain-fingers do stuff like that to me every once in a while. The
| other day in an e-mail I was thinking "fair" but my fingers typed
| "fare." <sigh>
And since then I found a place where my fingers typed "here" for
"hear." <g>
--
Q
1.19.1.372 (Q's Broken Toolbar.) |
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Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
OTOH, other products are much cheaper in Europe. But people tend to
oversee that.
Are they? What types of product? I don't know of any, but am happy to
learn.
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Steve Thackery wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
OTOH, other products are much cheaper in Europe. But people tend to
oversee that.
Are they? What types of product? I don't know of any, but am happy
to learn.
Certain cars, certain electronics, probably a lot more.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious."
-- Peter Ustinov (1921-2004) |
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Certain cars, certain electronics, probably a lot more.
What a hand-crafted piece of BS!
How many days did you live in the US in your life to claim that? Even BMW's made in Germany are cheaper in the US than in Europe. From my experience, splitting life between US/Europe more or less 50/50, everything is cheaper in the US. All cars, all electronics, all software, etc. And the reason is in most cases high import taxes in EU.
"Certain" EMBT revenues are up - this is your mantra!
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Angus MacRuder wrote:
"Certain" EMBT revenues are up - this is your mantra!
According to Embarcadero, Rad Studio revenues are up.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
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Angus MacRuder wrote:
"Certain" EMBT revenues are up - this is your mantra!
The only reason people think that EMBT revenues are up is because they
are.
--
Nick
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Angus MacRuder wrote:
"Certain" EMBT revenues are up - this is your mantra!
The only reason people think that EMBT revenues are up is because they
are.
And when it's not then EMBT chooses not to publish anything, right? |
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Angus MacRuder wrote:
And when it's not then EMBT chooses not to publish anything, right?
Huh?
--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun |
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Angus MacRuder wrote:
Certain cars, certain electronics, probably a lot more.
What a hand-crafted piece of BS!
Well, hand-crafted indeed, which speaks for its superb quality. But BS?
Nah. Things from the US are generally cheaper in the US, things from
Europe are generally cheaper in Europe.
OK, the dollar is very low, so even things from the US may be cheaper
here. I always thought of buying me a second hand Boeing 747. At the
current dollar rate, that costs just a bit more than a pack of
cigarettes. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."
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Angus MacRuder wrote:
"Certain" EMBT revenues are up - this is your mantra!
Not my mantra, you lenghty one.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"If you give a man a fish, he will eat for today. If you teach
him to fish, he'll understand why some people think golf is
exciting." -- P.G. Wodehouse |
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Does not apply for Norway. I can think of only one, Health care. It's basically free in Norway.
But not a visit to the dentist That is ridiculously expensive here.
All other Product, more expensive.
Ole
OTOH, other products are much cheaper in Europe. But people tend to
oversee that.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
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Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Agreed, but what Nick says applies. They charge what they think they
"can get away with". That is true for many products, including
electronics, cars, etc.
And when they pass my individual "pain level" they lose me. The
situation now is that it is cheaper/easier to get away from Delphi than
to hang on.
I don't buy BMW:s either... |
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Anders Isaksson wrote:
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Agreed, but what Nick says applies. They charge what they think they
"can get away with". That is true for many products, including
electronics, cars, etc.
And when they pass my individual "pain level" they lose me.
I assume that is in their calculations too.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Sex is like a Chinese dinner. It isn't over until everyone gets
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Anders Gustavsson wrote:
The economic laws of supply of demand would tell us they can do
because people buy it. They probably do what is best for their
income, even if it is not for my or your wallets.
Indeed -- well said.
I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.
I've said it a million times here: businesses price to maximize
profits. If lowering prices would increase profits, a business will
do it. If raising prices will increase profits, a business will do
it.
You guys where those who also defended Borland when they were doing the most ridiculous marketing thing until they became a part of Microfocus and eventually become MicroNothing!
According to you and like minded people there is no such thing as "bad marketing", "bad management" and "bad pricing" because a company always knows what is "best" for them.
Sorry Nick, but it is just pure nonsense. |
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Farshad Mohajeri wrote:
According to you and like minded people there is no such thing as
"bad marketing", "bad management" and "bad pricing" because a
company always knows what is "best" for them.
Sorry Nick, but it is just pure nonsense.
I think you've actually addressed a slightly different issue, Farshad.
Nick is arguing about the principle - that a business will charge
whatever it believes will maximise it's profits. Your point - that
they may get it wrong - is not in conflict with Nick's. Indeed, I'm
sure Nick would agree that companies do, sometimes, get it wrong. But
the principle isn't wrong.
--
SteveT |
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Steve Thackery wrote:
Indeed, I'm
sure Nick would agree that companies do, sometimes, get it wrong. But
the principle isn't wrong.
Exactly. It's possible that EMBT's prices aren't maximizing profits.
But I'm guessing that they are pretty close. They have 20 years of
experience and all the spreadsheets.
We have utter, pure conjecture.
Seems obvious who has the better idea.
--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun |
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Why does EMBT price things in EUR as they do? Because it maximizes
their profits.
Really? How do you know that your above equation is correct? Are you the Oracle at Delphi? Try pricing things in USD and you may even sell more in EMEA, but you will never know unless you try.
Two days ago I purchased XE7 Professional for our new team member, I could get the Enterprise Version as well, but I didn't because I didn't think it deserves the 2.400 Euro price tag. It is just ridiculous.
You guys try to shutdown every protest and every complain that anyone here directs to Embarcadero. You guys give more damage to company rather than being helpful.
Customers always have the right to complain about the prices. I'm yet to meet a Delphi developer who doesn't complain about the prices. Of course, there is a major group who don't complain at all because they use the "Architect" version for free!
EMBT is trying to do market segmentation, but they're doing it wrong. Trying to sell same product to Brazilian guy at 2X price is not market segmentation! |
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Farshad Mohajeri wrote:
Customers always have the right to complain about the prices.
I completely agree. And if enough people complain and don't buy, I
suspect that the prices will come down.
THe price is 10% off until the end of the month, by the way.
As for the Enterprise Edition, what you get for the price is, well,
nothing short of astounding. THe Enterprise Mobility Server alone is
worth at least that much. I just wrote a twitter client with ten lines
of code in about 30 minutes using the REST components. (ANd most of
that time was spent hassling with Twitter's security). DataSnap,
FireDac enterprise support, and more. How much is your time worth? I
find it an amazing value myself.
Of course, there is a major group who don't complain at all because
they use the "Architect" version for free!
WHo are those people. And before you answer, ask me how many hours I
spend doing free support, presentations, etc. for EMBT as an MVP.
Trying to sell same product to Brazilian guy at 2X price is not
market segmentation!
Well, that's exactly what it is, but never mind.
--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun |
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Why does EMBT price things in EUR as they do? Because it maximizes
their profits.
It's simple, basic economics. Why it's so hard to get is a mystery to
me.
Nick
So why they do not sell their product in GBP ? It would maximizess their profits better. The basic economics must should reckon with the client and his feelings.If price is badly constructed then the customer can not buy the product. This is basic economics.
Miroslaw |
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Miroslaw Rogula wrote:
So why they do not sell their product in GBP ?
I believe they do in Great Britain -- I don't know for sure.
The basic economics must should reckon with the client and his
feelings.If price is badly constructed then the customer can not buy
the product. This is basic economics.
Oh, absolutely -- I completely agree. Any price -- even $5 -- will be
too much for some customers.
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Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun |
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Am 27.09.2014 16:40, schrieb Nick Hodges:
Anders Gustavsson wrote:
The economic laws of supply of demand would tell us they can do
because people buy it. They probably do what is best for their
income, even if it is not for my or your wallets.
Indeed -- well said.
I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.
I've said it a million times here: businesses price to maximize
profits. If lowering prices would increase profits, a business will
do it. If raising prices will increase profits, a business will do
it.
Why does EMBT price things in EUR as they do? Because it maximizes
their profits.
It's simple, basic economics. Why it's so hard to get is a mystery to
me.
Hello,
that only works for markets where no 1:1 (or nealry 1:1) substitute is
available. I don't think this would work too well for milk as it doesn't
matter much which brand you buy. All of it is from cows anyhow.
(yes you can buy organic one for higher prices etc. but that's not a 1:1
substitute then).
You just don't have any other development tool which could seamlessly
open your Delphi projects and you could use to continue development with
it as if it were Delphi.
Greetings
Markus |
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Markus Humm wrote:
that only works for markets where no 1:1 (or nealry 1:1) substitute is
available.
Right -- it doesn't work for commodities. They are price takers not
price searchers.
--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun |
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Farshad Mohajeri skrev 2014-09-27 12:54:
That said, the growth in EMBT revenue may come from their constant appetite to increase prices. I think it is the actual number of new user license sales that counts here not the gross revenue.
The economic laws of supply of demand would tell us they can do because
people buy it. They probably do what is best for their income, even if
it is not for my or your wallets.
/Anders
Really?
Where did I say that they can not do this? Have you ever tried to completely understand what I'm trying to say in above quote?
I just speculated that the increased revenue comes from increased price not the increased unit sales. Not sure if it has anything to do with econ laws of supply and demand. |
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Farshad Mohajeri skrev 2014-09-27 17:27:
Farshad Mohajeri skrev 2014-09-27 12:54:
That said, the growth in EMBT revenue may come from their constant appetite to increase prices. I think it is the actual number of new user license sales that counts here not the gross revenue.
The economic laws of supply of demand would tell us they can do because
people buy it. They probably do what is best for their income, even if
it is not for my or your wallets.
/Anders
Really?
Where did I say that they can not do this? Have you ever tried to completely understand what I'm trying to say in above quote?
I just speculated that the increased revenue comes from increased price not the increased unit sales. Not sure if it has anything to do with econ laws of supply and demand.
Well, maybe I should have said "what they think is best for their
income", because, as has been stated, they may do misjudgements.
On the other hand (using your own words from another answer) "are you
the Oracle at Delphi?" Who do you think has the best idea of how much
you can charge for the product - you or the EMB management?
What this has got to do with supply and demand? To me - everything! If
they could charge a zillion $ for it and one (1) customer bought and
this would mean maximum profit - then it would be right for them. Poor
us, but that's capitalism.
And to be honest, if they raise the prizes and increase revenues - it
does tell something of the value, doesn't it?
/Anders |
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Farshad Mohajeri wrote:
I just speculated that the increased revenue comes from *increased
price* not the increased unit sales. Not sure if it has anything to
do with econ laws of supply and demand.
If your speculation is true, it would mean that a significant increase
in price did not decrease demand at all.
Interesting.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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I think it's great sales is growing, and it should.
What is your point exactly?
Regards
Ole
This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for its
RAD Studio product line"
http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/44078
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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If this 23% growth represents a 23% growth in number of Delphi users, then I will be certanly impressed.
However, if the 23% can be explained by a similar increase in price at which EMB products were sold, then it would mean that there was no real newcomers / users and existing users were merely paying more to renew / upgrade....??
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It's of course growth in revenue.
Some of it will come from increased prices and some from new users (markets).
Embarcadero is targeting the smartphone market now and that will attract new users.
Regards,
Ole
If this 23% growth represents a 23% growth in number of Delphi users, then I will be certanly impressed.
However, if the 23% can be explained by a similar increase in price at which EMB products were sold, then it would mean that there was no real newcomers / users and existing users were merely paying more to renew / upgrade....??
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It's of course growth in revenue.
Some of it will come from increased prices and some from new users (markets).
Embarcadero is targeting the smartphone market now and that will attract new users.
Regards,
Ole
and since the pricing of EMB products have gone up significantly during this period, that unfortunately implies that there may have been rather little growth in actual number of new users during this period....
I agree that the smartphone market will attract new users in the long term, but I dont think there was a lot of them during this reporting period... |
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Wouter Oosthuizen wrote:
and since the pricing of EMB products have gone up significantly
during this period,
Which prices have gone up significantly?
--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun |
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Wouter Oosthuizen wrote:
It's of course growth in revenue.
Some of it will come from increased prices and some from new users
(markets).
Embarcadero is targeting the smartphone market now and that will
attract new users.
Regards,
Ole
and since the pricing of EMB products have gone up significantly
Have they? Could you give an example of what you mean?
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Wherever there is great property, there is great inequality,
for one very rich man; there must be at least five hundred
poor."
-- Adam Smith |
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Wouter Oosthuizen wrote:
and since the pricing of EMB products have gone up significantly
Have they? Could you give an example of what you mean?
Just read the thread
https://forums.embarcadero.com/thread.jspa?threadID=108159&tstart=0
I quote from Dan Ridenhours first post:
Dan Ridenhours wrote:
"When i got XE3 they said that the new 'mobile tools' would be available at a nominal fee later that year. They came out at $299 which I thought more than nominal, but that turned out to be a > sign of things to come.
Then the XE4 rumblings started... Android dev was coming. I got an upgrade letter to upgrade to the lastest Rad Studio Pro Sku for $499 and get the new release with android when it came
out the next month. It was tempting as I wanted android dev but with 10 years of mis-steps I thought id wait... figuring the upgrade would only be $550 or so after it was released.
Then XE4 came out... $899 upgrade cost. Wow, thats a $300 jump in less than 2 weeks I thought. Nope, I pass.
The next month I got an email... special 10% off the upgrade to XE4 and thought... cool I'll take a look maybe they changed their prices... well they did... now that same upgrade was $1079
before the 10% off so still more expensive that it was offered last.
So basically between august and december the upgrade price doubled.
Fast forward to today...
The latest release XE7 hits release with a wopping $1500 rage upgrade price for pro sku rad studio.
" |
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Wouter Oosthuizen wrote:
Oh, indeed, if you want extra functionality, i.e. more than you had
before, like the mobile stuff (in other words, two more extra
platforms), or some other technology that was not provided before, you
may have to pay more.
But, again, where has the pricing of equivalent Embarcadero products
gone up significantly?
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"The chain reaction of evil -- wars producing more wars -- must
be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of
annihilation." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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Wouter Oosthuizen wrote:
and since the pricing of EMB products have gone up significantly
during this period, that unfortunately implies that there may have
been rather little growth in actual number of new users during this
period....
Except for the reasonable annual increase of ~1% (not even sure if EMB
is applying that) the only thing additional thing I can think of is the
PRO version containing 'less' forcing more people to buy enterprise (or
even architect). Next to that there is the additional client/server
pack. But its the only two issues that could lead to spend more money
AFAICS. |
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Ole Ekerhovd wrote:
Embarcadero is targeting the smartphone market now and that will
attract new users.
How confident are you of that? Of course I don't know any facts (if
you do, please say so), but I'd be very surprised if many mobile app
developers chose Delphi over all the other well-established tools out
there. I wonder how often that happens.
What I do think is that Embarcadero's efforts will retain customers
by helping them move into the mobile, cross-platform world without
having to throw lots of code and expertise away.
--
SteveT |
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Wouter Oosthuizen wrote:
If this 23% growth represents a 23% growth in number of Delphi users,
then I will be certanly impressed.
Of course not. Or at least, I doubt it. It probably means 23% more
revenue. But that still means that Delphi is selling well (and better
than ever), contradicting all the naysaying and "Delphi is dead/dying"
talk around here.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke."
-- Groucho Marx |
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Ole Ekerhovd wrote:
I think it's great sales is growing, and it should.
What is your point exactly?
That Delphi sales are growing. As they should.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
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This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
It doesn't. The Delphi vision is a good one. The more I test XE7 the more I like it! |
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Bruce McGee wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for its
RAD Studio product line"
<dripping sarcasm>
Good grief, I hate it when sales numbers increase in any form. It's
always bad. There can't be any good news here.
</dripping sarcasm>
--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun |
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Bruce McGee wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for its
RAD Studio product line"
<dripping sarcasm>
Good grief, I hate it when sales numbers increase in any form. It's
always bad. There can't be any good news here.
</dripping sarcasm>
ROFL
--
Dalija Prasnikar |
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Good news indeed.
Delphi has evolve in a way it's no longer comparable to earlier releases.
Keep QPS coming! we like it!
Clément
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"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for its
RAD Studio product line"
That claim would be more impressive if we knew what base that is starting from. I suspect that the starting point is low, because I am an individual that has never bought more than one Pro license at a time, but I now get sales calls from Embarcadero. I never got such calls back when Delphi 7 was out.
Edited by: John Jacobson on Sep 24, 2014 10:28 AM |
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John Jacobson wrote:
but I now get sales calls from Embarcadero.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
--
Nick
Delphi Programming is Fun |
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...but I now get sales calls from Embarcadero. I never got such calls back when Delphi 7 was out.
I think its great to see EMB is taking an active approach to sales and marketing. In the old days, a few decades ago, software more-or-less sold itself. But today with the large crowds of software products available it takes effort. I hope they continue to do things that build both the Delphi market and the contractor market. I provide contract development services and I'd like to see Delphi pick back up so that more people can enjoy using it at work. |
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John Jacobson wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for
its RAD Studio product line"
That claim would be more impressive if we knew what base that is
starting from.
The year before, what else? And well, in those years, revenues have
increased constantly and significantly each year.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled on
behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy."
-- Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914) |
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John Jacobson wrote:
but I now get sales calls from Embarcadero.
If they don't do enough, people will say "I didn't even get a call from
them". If they do call people, others complain again. Whatever they do,
there is always someone who sees it as a bad sign. Even a constant
increase in revenue over several consecutive years can only be a bad
sign to some.
Tsk, tsk, tsk.
--
Rudy Velthuis http://www.rvelthuis.de
"The purpose of computing is not numbers but insight."
-- Richard Hamming |
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John Jacobson wrote:
"year-over-year sales growth of 23% in the first half of 2014 for
its RAD Studio product line"
That claim would be more impressive if we knew what base that is
starting from. I suspect that the starting point is low, because I am
an individual that has never bought more than one Pro license at a
time, but I now get sales calls from Embarcadero. I never got such
calls back when Delphi 7 was out.
I have a different anecdote that I posted elsewhere. I talked to four
local companies who recently (in the past year) decided to move their
old (Delphi 7 or earlier) code bases to a new version and to start some
new development. Well, more than four, but I made the decision in the
other cases, so I'm not sure they count.
Marketing.
One of the more spectacular failures of Borland's final years. I think
Embarcadero is doing a much better job.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software |
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Legend
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Helpful Answer
(5 pts)
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Correct Answer
(10 pts)
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